Richard,
Reading your post made me realize that as a lifelong atheist I don't know what it is like to lean on a supernatural agent for support when things go bad. Having always just relied on myself when making life choices I can testify that sometimes it does get scary knowing that you only have yourself to blame if things go awry. But, are we not all really alone in this life? I think my way is better because I am stronger and more resilient than I would be otherwise. I am now 68 years old.

was an “atheist in a foxhole” and got out without Jesus. It took great will power, but I did on my own.

Your life went well after you became an atheist because Satan already had you then. He didn't need to torment you anymore because you were his.

I am kidding. But seriously, I have seen this kind of reasoning in churches. If everything is going well, and you are a church-person, it is because you are God-fearing that everything is working out. If everything is going well and you are an atheist, it's because Satan has no need to torment you.

I don't make the rules, I just report 'em ;-) !

Jamie, so true. I was taught the same thing. and I Know that what they think when I've told them that I was an atheist, and yet my life seems somehow better. Like the long time atheists say here; I rely on myself to make my life and the lives of my family better.

I guess I'm the devil.
Better to be in hell with the great thinkers of today and yesterday than in heaven with a tyrant?
Doesn't matter....no such thing anyway.

Hey Richard,
Great post. I walked away from the worst alcohol problem one could have 16 years ago. I did it all without the "Higher Power." When I hit rock bottom from my drinking I did get down on my knees and beg Jesus to come into my life, but that son of a gun must have been on vacation that night because I just didn't have the religious experience so many addicts claim. Perhaps my subconscious mind knew he didn't exist. It is kind of scary at times knowing we are on our own, yet it's worth the many trade offs we get for not believing in the big fairy tale.

xrayman

Richard,

Congrats for jettisoning myth from your life and sticking to reality.

Any religion that espouses the existence of a 3O God, as several authors have pointed out, is a pack of lies, and as an atheist I fully concur with them.

Richard, what you say is so true and I'm still amazed at how people can operate in their own little fantasy world. Incredible.

You said "We all have "day to day" faith in things..."

Well this is the only thing to which I must disagree because faith to me is invariably a religious term - "to believe without reason". I have no faith and all my beliefs are based on experience, knowledge, and at the very least, educated guesses. I believe the sun will set in the West, I believe the Ottawa Senators will make the playoffs, and I believe my kids will give me a few more grey hairs.

Cheers, Derrick.

Richard,

Saying there is no evidence that God exists is like saying there is no such thing as a headache or radio waves. No, you cannot see God (unless you look). No, you cannot hear God (unless you listen). No, you cannot feel God (just like you can't feel headaches).

Brandon,

Your analogies as to evidence for your god appear to me as fallacious in that you are comparing verifiable physical realities to a non-verifiable supernatural deity. To be cliché, you are comparing apples to oranges. While it’s true that I cannot see radio waves, radio waves can be “seen” by using technology. Headaches, on the other hand, are merely physical responses to tension, illness, constricted blood vessels and/or other physical causes. There is nothing supernatural in a headache, is there?

It honestly escapes me as to how these two examples you cite compare to “sensing” an invisible, immaterial, incomprehensible entity with which Christians claim close communion.

Care to elaborate?

.:webmaster:. wrote:
"There is nothing supernatural in a headache, is there?"
---
Webmaster,

Maybe Brandon has a point here.

There might be something supernatural about some headaches, because every time I think about having religion preached at me, it give me a terrible headache.
Surely it's the great xtian god's words causing the headache, thus it must be supernatural, no?

Gotta love this type of reasoning...haha


ATF

Didn't some ancient cultures cut holes in a persons skull to let out the evil spirits that were causing the headache?

stronger now said...
"Didn't some ancient cultures cut holes in a persons skull to let out the evil spirits that were causing the headache?"
---
Stronger, here ya go:

I don't know about you, but I think I'll use asprin instead.
It seems to scare away the evil spirit in my head, just fine and dandy these days.


From... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mental_illness


Prehistoric times:

In prehistoric times, mental illnesses were assumed to stem from magical beings that interfered with the mind. Individual tribes and groups of shamans had their own spells and rituals that they used to attempt to cure such mental illnesses. Often, such rituals took the form of exorcisms, in which the shaman would attempt to coax the evil spirit that was causing the disorder from the body.

In some prehistoric societies, a primitive form of surgery was used to attempt to exorcise the malignant spirits. Trepanation (also spelled trephination), the practice of drilling a hole through part of the skull without damaging the brain, was believed to allow the release of spirits trapped inside the skull. Skulls with trepanning holes dating back more than 10,000 years have been found in Neolithic Europe and South America. In fact, the presence of calluses on the surfaces of many skulls recovered showed that the operation had a surprisingly high recovery rate.

ATF

ATF,

I need another hole in my head like I need another...well, you know.

White willow bark for me, thanks.

Hi All,

I am a believer of GOD. I am very concerned of the way you spoke about HIM. He died on the cross to bridged that gap between mankind and the HOLY FATHER. After all the punishments, Jesus died but was risen from the dead. He conquered death and was ascended into Heaven. Isn't this proof that he is God?
We believe what we want to believe but I stand firm on my faith. We don't need to see the actual miracles in this world for us to believe but to hold on to his words in the Bible.
God bless us all.

Anonymouse: "He conquered death and was ascended into Heaven. Isn't this proof that he is God?"

Hold on there, buddy! The Biblical stories of Jesus are mythological, not historical. Before you can use them as proof of a god, you have to prove that the things described in the Bible actually happened.

And it doesn't look good, not at all. No one wrote about this Jesus character during his own lifetime -- The Gospels were written at least thirty years after the events they supposedly describe. Various significant events, such as the earthquake and the darkness over Jerusalem on the alleged day of the crucifixion, were not recorded by anyone. Not a word... Not a single mention from a city full of scribes and Tanakh scholars; not a peep from the astronomers in neighbouring areas.

Fact: We have no credible accounts of people coming back from the dead after several days in a tomb.

Fact: We have no credible evidence for the existence of your god, just various anecdotal, subjective religious experiences that can neither be verified nor duplicated.

Fact: We're a tough crowd. You may think the Bible is proof; we don't. To us, it's no more than an ancient storybook.

Go 'stand firm' in your faith somewhere else, please.

AnonyMouse, I'm glad that you're concerned about what we say about your god, but I have alot of bad,(if not good) thoughts about jedus.

For instance, I keep seeing myself as the roman soldier that stuck the spear in jesus's side.

I keep thinking if I where the soldier; before I stuck the spear in jesus side, I would of first said; IN GOD I THRUST! Again, Thanks for your concern; NOW GIT! Roger...A/A

Peace to all,

I am deeply concerned of the ways you spoke about GOD. The Bible is there for us all to read and understand. There is a website called 7 Youths Testimonies of Heaven and Hell. Please do read it because they are real. I do not fear the words that will come out from your mouths but I do fear what GOD will do to me if I do not share what I believe is the truth.
My brothers and sisters. please take some time to read it.

God bless us all.

Peace To All,

This is another website that tells the reality of Hell. It does exist.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/sounds_from_hell.htm
Please do pray to Jesus to forgive us our sins. There is still hope in everyone of us. Once we perish
judgement will be set upon us. You choose which way you want to go. Either Heaven or Hell.
God loves us all. Please do not forget this.
God bless us all.

Anonymouse, if Hell were to actually exist (Já, riiight...), it would prove rather clearly that your god does not in fact 'love everyone'.

Fortunately, Hell, sin and your god are all myths. And the Bible is one of the most disgusting and destructive books of mythology ever written. We know. We've read it.

You, a believer in eternal torture and omnipotent loving torturers, have a long, long way to go intellectually before you're qualified to tell anyone what is 'real'.

And don't you fucking dare teach that vicious little mythology to an impressionable and vulnerable child. Not even one. Not even your own kin. If you disregard My wishes and commit that particular act of psychological violence against any child, anywhere, may life turn to shit in your hands and may that child disown you.

Hell fearing squeaky-any-mouse wrote:
This is another website that tells the reality of Hell. It does exist.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/sounds_from_hell.htm
--------
WOW, imagine that, real-honest-to-god sounds from hell.

So all one has to do to find hell, is to drill a really deep hole in Siberia.

Okay, I see a FEW problems with this concept. Here's just a couple.

1. If one can DRILL a hole INTO hell, send down a physical microphone (which doesn't burn up), then why wouldn't those who are in hell be able to escape through that same hole?

2. Isn't it kind of strange that spirits would sound a lot like the distorted voices from human vocal cords?

3. Why would dammed spirit beings stuck down in hell, make acoustic type sounds?
("Acoustic"; meaning vibrating AIR molecules)
Other than someone drilling a rare hole 'into hell', who would hear those acoustic voices with acoustic type human ears?

Well, this is indeed a surprise, so perhaps spirits have yet **another** quality that normally would be associated with a physical fleshly body...Ears and Vocal Cords.
Funny how so many things of the god/spirit world resemble our earthly nature, but then it's just not possible for the god's to have been thought up by humans, nah.

I have a question for ALL reading this now, that came up tonight at home.

We all are told that Lucifer and his pack of demons, rebelled while in god's heaven and got cast out as a result of that rebellion, yes?

So then tell me, how is it that god didn't see this rebellion coming ages before it happened?
Doesn't god always see the future?

Now the answer I got here at home was that god did know it would happen, but it was all part of his "great plan", so he didn't stop it.

So the way I see it, is that either god couldn't foresee this rebellion of his own spirit creations, or he had no problem with the devil rebellion and then sending these rebels down here to earth (hell) to torment his lowly fleshly creations.

So it sure seems god did in fact create EVIL and when the chance arose to kill those evil rebels, he chose instead to put them WITH his human 'lambs'.

I just do not get how folks buy into this fable stuff as being factual, but take it from me, I've got a true believer here, who has no problem with any of these far-out tales of old.


ATF (Who still wants to know why Lucifer always gets the bad-rap, when the volcano god has done far more evil to our world)

The story about the "Well to Hell" is a well-known urban legend. Read all about it at Snopes.Com.

Peasce To All,

GOD is understanding, loving and forgiving to those who sins against him. He is ready to forgive anyone who will repent from their sin even to the utmost.
GOD does not force you to do his will. We choose our own destiny. Remember my brothers and sisters, it is our own FREE WILL.
Their are a lot of testimonies out there but be careful because the DEVIL is cunning and could lead you into not believing about the reality of Heaven and Hell.
Please try to read and understand their stories. It is never too late to ask for forgiveness from GOD.
GOD bless us all.

Anonymous wrote : GOD does not force you to do his will. We choose our own destiny.

What is there to choose? If someone puts a gun to my head and tells me to choose between my money or my life, guess who gets the money?

There is no such thing as free will, only manipulation through fear.

Besides, God, Heaven and Hell does not exist. And I AM NOT YOUR SISTER!

Infected: Peasce To All,

Okay, I'll give benefit of doubt, seeing as how the "c" key is fairly close to the "s" key.

Infected: GOD is understanding, loving and forgiving to those who sins against him.

Benefit of doubt, withdrawn.

"GOD" is a concept that exists inside the "mind" of mankind..i.e..in his brain; "GOD" exists nowhere else. People who believe "GOD" exists outside their own minds, are infected with what is refered to as a religious meme. People who are infected likely contracted the virus via various sources---sources such as family members, friends, literature, and the "church". A common symptom of this mind-virus, or meme, is when the infected calls what sometimes occurs in human nature, a "sin". There is no such thing as a "sin"; there is only committing unnecessary harm to other human beings. Many times, this unnecessary harm is minor, and again, is due to human nature...i.e..curiously putting a thumbtack in someone's chair to see their reaction, etc. Other times, the harm is malicious and violent, and in such cases, the perpetrator may have a defect in their brain...i.e..Jeffrey Dahmer etc. In any event, neither act is a "sin".

Infected: He is ready to forgive anyone who will repent from their sin even to the utmost. GOD does not force you to do his will.

In this instance, by "He", we can logically infer that the infected refers to the Christian biblegod, "Jesus". If we take an unbiased, comprehensive look in the Christian resource book...aka the "Holy Bible", and we then compare it against the infected's above-quoted statement, what we find is that the infected leaves out one crucial stipulation, or condition. The infected often attempts to omit this stipulation, because....well, because they are ill.

Of course, anyone with any knowledge of Christian theology will know that one must believe, and thereby accept the theology in question as "Truth", in order to qualify for the "benefits" of the membership. This process - this "oath" - must take place before the alleged "forgivness" can be granted.

And further, it seems that to not be 'qualified' isn't bad enough. In this case - and again, according to the Christian resource book - said biblegod created a specific place for those whom biblegod "cannot" grant this "forgiveness". That place is called the "Lake of Fire", sometimes refered to as "hell". It is there that said biblegod will stand by and watch as the non-compliant get incinerated, this of course, for not adhering to the stipulations put forth by biblegod, himself.

Infected: We choose our own destiny. Remember my brothers and sisters, it is our own FREE WILL.

At rare times, the infected will seemingly manage to say something not entirely false.... in this case, that we are in charge of our own lives. As seen, the infected refers to this as "FREE WILL". But don't be fooled by this term, because the Christian resource book explicitly says that if we do NOT choose to believe the Christian theology and accept it's biblgod as our "savior", again, we will be incinerated in the "Lake of Fire". With those options, no sane, mentally stable person, can say that one's "will" to choose, is truly "free".

Infected: [There] are a lot of testimonies out there but be careful because the DEVIL is cunning and could lead you into not believing about the reality of Heaven and Hell.

Often times, the infected will introduce the biblical antagonist into a discussion when attempting to transmit, and propagate, their meme. This antagonist, of course, is the "DEVIL"...aka..."Satan". As healthy-minded people know, the "DEVIL", like "GOD", only exists as a concept; neither have any referent in reality.

But interestingly, even if we, for sake of argument, hypothesize that said "DEVIL" exists, what we see is one of two philosophical problems: Either, 1) biblegod is powerless against the "DEVIL", and thus, this clearly negates biblegod's alleged "omniscience"...or 2) The "DEVIL" is actually necessary to seeing "GOD'S plan" to fruition. In other words, "sin" is actually necessary. This poses a real conundrum for Christian theists..i.e..the "infected".

Infected: It is never too late to ask for forgiveness from GOD.
GOD bless us all.

All said, there is still hope for the infected; there is a cure, and that cure is called reason. Yet, the infected has to want to get well.

Peace To All,

Wisdom comes from those who seek it. True wisdom is gained by deep understanding of it's nature. The Bible is there for those who seeks wisdom and truth so that they can have eternal life in Heaven.
How can this Universe exist without GOD's intervention and creativity? How can you explain the very existence of mankind on this planet? Through apes? Where did all those apes come from? The fish in the seas, the birds in the skies above and the animals that roam the land. Where did they all come from?
You can look at your backyard for generations to come and yet no human being or animal will exist on it not unless someone does put them there. True? It is the truth.
Heaven and does exist. Satan do not want you to believe that it exist because he doesn't want anyone to be saved. He doesn't want anyone to know anything about Jesus because he is the salvation. He is the only way we can go to go Heaven and be with the Father Almighty.
If a person puts a bullet in your head and you die, wouldn't you be asking for justice specially if this person cut short your life here on Earth with your loving and caring family? Of course you will be asking for justice. Will you be able to stand close to this person once he dies as well and be with him in Limbo for all eternity? Because you believe that there is no Heaven and Hell so all souls go into Limbo for all eternity?
What happens to all those people that kills other people, serial killers, sell drugs, do prostitution and all kinds of evil things? Will you be with them in the same place? Will you permit your loving and caring family to be with them in that same place? Wouldn't you be asking for justice to be done for all these people? To separate you and your family from these kind of people? You will ask for justice.
There is no such thing as Limbo. There is only Heaven and Hell. That's why GOD is asking for us to repent with our sin to Jesus and be saved throughout eternity.
We choose which way we want to go.
Remember, it is our own FREE WILL.
God Bless Us All.

Ah, I see that Anonymouse is back for another thrashing.

"Wisdom comes from those who seek it."

No, it comes from personal experience of reality.

"The Bible is there for those who seeks wisdom and truth so that they can have eternal life in Heaven."

The Bible is poorly-written mythology composed by Bronze-age people who didn't have a frigging clue. It is anti-wisdom and anti-truth. It promotes subservience, values abusive behaviour, and worships death. That's right; death.

And personally, I don't want 'eternal life in Heaven.' Not My idea of a good time, not at all.

"How can this Universe exist without GOD's intervention and creativity?"

Quite easily. The universe is here, but there's no evidence of your god.

"There is no such thing as Limbo. There is only Heaven and Hell."

Wrong. Limbo, Heaven and Hell are all unproven religious fantasies.

May you learn enough about the real world to one day cast your faith on the trash heap.

"It is never too late to ask for forgiveness from GOD. "

Oh...OK...I'll wait until I die and see if hell exists, if it does, I'll ask your god to forgive me, since you personally swear it's never too late to ask for forgiveness. Thanks!

Peace To All,

It is never too late to those who will repent before they die. Once you die, judgment will be set upon you. It is too late to those that goes to Hell. Any hope of salvation and forgiveness from GOD at that point is a false hope as you have been judged.
Astreja, what about mankind? Where do you think we come from? Even if GOD let you see a barren desert for centuries,no human being or any animal will exist on it just like a flower. Not unless GOD will create one. True? It is the truth. We are the creation of GOD. Where do you think your soul would be once you die? Do you think you would become a butterfly or a bird? Do you believe that you are going to be resurrected into another different form or probably into another place? Wrong. Only 2 ways to go to. Either Heaven or Hell. Your own FREE WILL.
God Bless Us All.

"Astreja, what about mankind? Where do you think we come from?"

We share a common ancestor with the *other* great apes. Yes, humans are indeed apes. The common ancestor lived approximately six million years ago, so we may or may not be able to dig up any meaningful, intact DNA to trace our lineage much further back in time.

I don't know what the future holds for radiometric dating of any fossils we do happen to find, but the science has advanced considerably from the days of Carbon-14. (For anyone who's interested, here's a table of isotopes currently in use.)

Abiogenesis (that is, life from non-life) is still a very young science, but personally I favour the hypothesis that certain combinations of organic molecules -- Hydrogen, oxygen, carbon and sometimes nitrogen -- became more prevelant in the environment due to their structure. These molecules attracted free atoms in such a way as to create mirror-image versions of themselves, and thereby gained the ability to duplicate themselves. Chemically and mindlessly.

And I think that the "mind" is an extremely complex electrical field created and sustained by our electrochemical brains, and that it ceases to exist when our brains die.

"Where do you think your soul would be once you die?"

What soul? When my brain dies, "I" simply do not exist any more.

"Do you think you would become a butterfly or a bird?"

I am reasonably confident that some of the molecules that make up My body right now could easily have passed through a butterfly or a bird on the way to the 2008/01/15 version of Me.

"Do you believe that you are going to be resurrected into another different form or probably into another place? Wrong."

For once, I agree. Nothing is going to "resurrect" Me.

Or you, either. Deal with it.

But extremely small parts of past, present and future versions of Me will, indeed, continue to exist in different forms and different places, as long as the universe exists. That's the way matter and energy work. And that is all the immortality I want or need.

"Only 2 ways to go to. Either Heaven or Hell."

I hardly think so... But if Hell does in fact exist I've decided to go there as a matter of principle. Read this.

And then go stuff your creepy little blessings up your ass.

Peace To All,

If you really believe in those Science theories of yours then you would be sitting on your own backyard for ages hoping that something will pop up as in a human form or an animal at that.
Science up to now is still struggling to find the true existence of this Universe. And mind you, I am a chemical engineering student and no chemicals whatsoever had been discovered to produced a real human being. Cloning, genetics and or DNA's are all science discoveries and yet no figurative concrete evidence of our subject. Only GOD can create a human being.
God Bless Us All.

Peace To All,

Please read this as the answer to your Zen valkyrie testimony.
http://bibleprobe.com/archive/messages/392.html
God Bless Us All.

And the Anonymouse continues to eat its own poop...

"If you really believe in those Science theories of yours then you would be sitting on your own backyard for ages hoping that something will pop up as in a human form or an animal at that."

WTF??

Why in the name of dear, sweet uncle Loki would I want to waste My precious time on Earth in such an outlandish manner?

"I am a chemical engineering student and no chemicals whatsoever had been discovered to produced a real human being."

Um... I will put this as gently as I can.

You are a flaming idiot.

You apparently have no comprehension of the mind-boggling time scales involved in evolution and abiogenesis.

Contrary to what it claims in the book of Genesis, humanity did not magically appear out of thin air. It has taken us billions of years to work up to Homo sapiens sapiens.

And a self-replicating molecule (an amino adenosine triacid esterpolypeptide, to be exact) has, in fact, been synthesized in a laboratory setting. Read this.

Stop trying to wedge Biblegod into each and every problem that makes your ego uncomfortable.

Then sit down and actually try to understand the science of it all.

If you can't bother to do that you have no business becoming a scientist, and I strongly advise you to change your major to Divinity.

And, as for your "answer" to My Ex-timony, I find it completely unmoving. Near-death experiences vary wildly from person to person, and I have no reason to believe that this alleged monk actually went anywhere but his own imagination.

Nonetheless... If Hell exists, I must go there in protest against its very existence. It is the honourable thing to do.

Thank you for reassuring Me that I have made the correct decision. My vow stands.

Peace To All,

No one is worthy of inheriting the kingdom of GOD unless we repent with our sin through Jesus.
Hell has been created for the Devil and his demons. It is not meant for mankind to be there but only to those who do not believe in salvation through Jesus Christ.
I can only hope and pray that oneday GOD will touch each and everyone of you so that you will be
enlighten to the truth. To free yourselves from the grasp of the Devil. The truth will set you free.
Remember this day that I spoke to you about Jesus and his salvation.
It is still not too late as long as you are alive. I will leave the decision to you.
I will do read from this site from time to time and still extend the salvation through Jesus Christ.
May GOD have mercy on your souls and forgive you from your sins.
May GOD bless us all.

Infected: Only GOD can create a human being.

The exact opposite is true; only a human being(one infected with a religious meme) can create a GOD.

God 'less us all.

Yes, evolution is a grand and amazing blind "creative" force.

Thank Evolution for its guiding force that gave all of us the ability to express our emotions through facial expressions! It was an easy enough task involving only a "few" coordinated electical impulses across a miriad of facial muscles!!!

How important our facial expression must have been during the evolutionary process! Those evolved "creatures" that lacked expression must have been quite dull to speak with and thus forced these poor versions into extinction. Who could blame those that had already developped facial expressions...by chance? It would have been so dull for them to speak with these daft individuals.



Please folks, let reason have victory in your mind. You're created and deep down you must know it. Is it really so hard to accept?

He gave you body, mind and soul! I hope someday you'll come to agree and join me (and many others) in thanking Him!

Thank God for my toddler's amazing smile!

Blessings

Here we go again... (sighs and helps Herself to another piece of chocolate)

PatsyBoy: "You're created and deep down you must know it. Is it really so hard to accept?"

Falsehoods, superstition and wishful thinking are something that should never be accepted.

The god of the Bible created nothing.

Nothing at all.

It is a fictional character based on older fictional characters ultimately based on primitive humanity's fear of the dark.

It is an extremely violent and fear-mongering archetype unworthy of worship or emulation.

30,000 different sects of Christianity constantly whine and bitch about who is a True Christian™ and who is not; whether their god is one being, three, or more. They can't even agree among themselves.

"It would have been so dull for them to speak with these daft individuals."

Look in the mirror, Pb. You're the poster boy for daft around these parts.

Hmm, 'Pb' is the Periodic Table symbol for lead. Coincidence? I. Think. Not. (thanks Chemistry Gods and offers them some chocolate, too)

Your preaching has become tiresome. Now's the time on Sprockets ven ve dance!

Passerby wrote:
"Please folks, let reason have victory in your mind."

Guess what, we have 'let reason have victory in our minds', so your wish already came true.

We reasoned your jebus can't exist, and poof, he was GONE, just like that.
It's really really easy to do. Just one tiny ounce of reason is enough to see reality, a reality where imaginary gods do not exist.

Now you try it.

Repeat after me...."Jesus was yet just another god figurehead, made up by ancient men to delude and control people with.

Repeat no less than 3 times, take 2 aspirin, and call reality in the morning.


'Doctor' ATF (Who wonders how these xtians can ignore the mountains of evidence against their god, and still hang onto that sick and sad belief with faith alone?)

Peace To All,

I would rather have Faith in my heart and walk with those who honor and obeys GOD's commandments than to have Fear and can do nothing at all. Fear is the exact opposite of Faith and I choose Faith.
People without GOD are the ones who worries a lot and fear creeps in their hearts because there is no one to protect them.
Bill Wiese have testified that Hell does exist.
Read his testimony before it's too late.
God bless us All.

Anonymouse regurgitates the same old crap...

"People without GOD are the ones who worries a lot and fear creeps in their hearts because there is no one to protect them."

You have a lot of fucking nerve, pretending to read the minds and judge the emotions of literally millions of people you don't even know.

Furthermore, I find it difficult to believe your implicit claim that you are somehow magically immune from fear. You may *think* there's someone there to protect you; but, from our perspective, you're just as alone as us.

We find different, far more practical ways of dealing with life's problems. Ways that do not require us to suspend critical thinking skills. Ways that put full responsibility for outcomes in *our* hands. Ways that consistently work.

And you apparently know very little about the psychology of fear, as well. In stark contrast to your ludicrous claim that fearful people "can do nothing at all", My experience is that most people function quite well under such stress. (Sometimes better than usual, by the way... I've done some of My very finest work in moments of crisis.) In My opinion, to be without fear is to be without courage. The two are inseparable.

"Bill Wiese have testified that Hell does exist."

I'm aware of this testimony, and am of the opinion that Wiese imagined the whole thing or fabricated it as a preaching tool.

But, even if Hell does exist it changes nothing for Me. I refuse to worship any god that would create such a place as Hell. It was not an option worthy of consideration when I was seven years old. It is not an option now, at age fifty. I don't expect it to become an option any time soon, as the more I learn about Christianity the more it disgusts Me.

Peace To All,

Bill Wiese had testified about Hell because the Lord told him to do so. He has so much experience and knowledge about the word of GOD. He cannot lie because he knows that GOD will punish those who makes false claim about Heaven and Hell.
Yes, there are a lot of pastors, preachers and christians alike that are burning in Hell right now. They are being punished more because they backslid against God. They proclaim and worship GOD but do things that are not holy to GOD once they go back to the real world. Yes, this world belongs to Satan and his demons. It is up to us to repent and seek salvation from Jesus Christ.
No one on earth is holy enough to sacrifice once life to be able to regain eternal life with GOD. Jesus is the only one pure enough without a single mark of sin in his heart. He is the one that sacrifice His life on the cross to save us from sin and be acceptable in God's presence. Without acknowledging Jesus, no matter what we do here. Even if you do good things to other. Sacrifice your own life for someone is nothing to GOD if you will not accept Jesus as your saviour.
He is the way to Heaven.
I, therefore proclaim that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by him (John 14:6)
Blessed are those who hears the word of God.
Bless us all.

Passerby, your posts aren't welcome here. Remember? Or did you forget that I've repeatedly requested that you cease posting here?

I wonder why it is that you feel justified in dishonoring my request that you discontinue posting here? Is that the kind of behavior Christianity teaches a person? To disregard the clearly stated requests of those who don't adhere to your religion? It makes one wonder how far a Christian will go to push his or her agenda on others. Christian or Islamic, it appears they are all in possession of scary and dangerous mindsets, at least if they are all like you.

Regardless, your friend anonymous thinks that "Fear is the exact opposite of Faith."

Well, according to Dictionary.Com, the exact opposite of "fear" is boldness, bravery, courage, fearlessness, valor... And the exact opposite of faith is dubiosity, skepticism, disbelief, unbelief...

According to Frank Herbert, the author of the "Dune" series, "Fear is the mind-killer." And fear -- fear of the Lord, fear of hell, fear of judgment, etc. -- is what Christianity is really all about, as your anonymous friend just confirmed in his most recent post. Fear is not the opposite of faith; fear is faith's enabler.

Passerby, as always, your ignorance is appalling. Even Darwin himself came to a rather deep understanding of facial expressions (See "The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals"), and the ideas have been taken even further since then. Of course, you never stopped to ask whether science had anything to say before concluding that it did not. Right? Right.

May you some day pry open that mind of yours. Good luck with that.

Peace To All,

When I mentioned Fear is the direct opposite of Faith, I am not talking about your Dictionary but more particularly about the Bible.
It's been written in the Bible that those who doesn't have Faith lives in Fear.
Fear comes from the Devil. It destroys the lives of those people who doesn't have Faith.
Romans 12 says that everyone is given the measure of Faith.
How much faith do you have? It depends on you.
Hebrew 11:6 reads; without faith it is impossible to please God.
I do believe in GOD. He is alive and the only one that saves mankind from sin is Jesus Christ. The salvation to Heaven. No other way but through HIM.
Believe it ore not Hell is real. It is underneath the Earth. It's been mentioned a lot of times in Bible. The Devil and his Demons were throwned down from Heaven into The Pit.
Bill Wiese testifies that it is around 3700 miles beneath the Earth's surface.
A lot of people had testified and yet you don't believe a single thing.
May GOD enlighten you about the truth and give you mercy for the things that you have done.
God bless us all.

Of the two infected guests currently posting on this thread, the "Anonymous" guest is back with:

When I mentioned Fear is the direct opposite of Faith, I am not talking about your Dictionary but more particularly about the Bible.

The infected will often times extol their respective religious doctrines as if said doctrines are the final authority on all knowledge - including words and their meanings - and thus, when they do this, any non-infected person can see that the infected's reasoning becomes completely circular. In this particular case, a certain word that is universally accepted to mean one thing, can "only" have the opposite meaning that the infected's Bible says it does. And of course, the infected "knows" this to be "true", because their doctrine says it's true....i.e..circular 'logic'. Again, we see the implicit "affirmation" in the infected's next statement:

It's been written in the Bible that those who [don't] have Faith [live] in Fear.

This circular type of reasoning is the 'foundation' for the infected's beliefs...e.g.."it's written in the bible"....therefore, whatever's being proposed as true, is "True", because it's written in the bible. It's almost as though the virus shuts down a part of the host's brain.

Infected: Fear comes from the Devil.

A healthy-minded, non-infected person knows that such things as "devils", gods, goblins, boogiemen, zombies, imps, gremilins, etc., have no referent in reality. Furthermore, they know that "fear" simply comes from uncertainty. In contrast, an infected person - even grown adults, believe it or not - believe that being uncertain about the future comes from a "Devil". If you happen to meet a severely infected person, they may even go as far as to tell you that the "Devil" is an actual being - one who wears a red leotard, has a trident tail, wields a pitchfork, and lives in the center of the earth. Yes, it seems absurd, but remember, these people are mentally ill.

May reason find them.

"It's been written in the Bible that those who doesn't have Faith lives in Fear."

Chapter and verse, please.

"Fear comes from the Devil"

The Bible:

"Fear your God. I am the LORD." Lev 19:14

"Fear your God. I am the LORD your God." Lev 25:17

"Fear the LORD your God" -- Deut 6:13

"Fear the LORD your God" -- Deut 10:12

"But be sure to fear the LORD" -- i Sam 12:24

"You must serve faithfully and wholeheartedly in the fear of the LORD." 2 Chron 19:9

""Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied." -- Job 1:9

"Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling." -- Psalm 2:12

"Let all the earth fear the LORD" -- Psalm 33:8

"The righteous will see and fear" -- Psalm 52:6

"My flesh trembles in fear of you" -- Psalm 119:120

"All mankind will fear" -- Psalm 64:9

"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear HIM..." -- Luke 12:5

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" -- Philippians 2:12

"A fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." -- Hebrews 10:27

"Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come" -- Rev 14:7

Are you sure we are talking about the same god here? Sounds like there's a whole lot of FEAR being bandied about by your god.

"I do believe in GOD"

Yes, Passerby... err, I mean, anonymous. We know you BELIEVE in a god. That's wonderful for you. Now, would you please quit posting here? Thanks so much.

Peace To All,

I am not yet done with my testimony.
Hell is located in the center of the Earth. More than 12,000 degrees farenheit in temperature which is hotter than our own Sun's surface.
The Lake of fire is mentioned in the book of Revelation. The pit, better known as Hell is where you will find Fire and Brimstone.
It is mentioned in the Bible many times about Fire and Brimstone, and they cast down the Devil and his angels, the Earth opened up and trapped them so to fufill the punishment set by GOD to his unworthy servants.
Brimstone better known as Sulfur. A yellowish non metallic substance found underneath the Earth's crust. Coincidence again or hallucination perhaps? I don't think so.
God bless us all.

Piss to All: "I am not yet done with my testimony."

Oh, goody. (grabs popcorn and gluten-free beer)

"Hell is located in the center of the Earth."

Been there, have you?

"More than 12,000 degrees farenheit in temperature which is hotter than our own Sun's surface."

Measured it, have you?

"The Lake of fire is mentioned in the book of Revelation... Coincidence again or hallucination perhaps? I don't think so."

Neither do I. The myth was most probably derived from mankind's past experiences with volcanoes. You know, those geologically unstable mountain-thingies that spit liquid rock all over the landscape and destroy entire villages?

Leaving no one alive to suffer mythical 'eternal torment'?

Seriously now, you silly little git. You've obviously invested a large part of your life in Christianity, to the point where you're prepared to publicly abase your precious reason and common sense to defend the wild-ass imaginings of your insipid little death-cult.

I would like to take a few moments to commend you, PtA, for all the fine work you've done...

...Helping us at Ex-C illustrate how blind adherence to religion can so tragically fuck up a mind. Well done, faithful blog-troll! May you deconvert thousands.

Peace To All,

Converting ex-christians back into being a born again christians is my purpose of serving Lord Jesus Christ.
THe awakening call of the Bible is upon you all. Those who want to hear the truth will be set free from the clasp of the Devil.
I will always be here praying for all of you so that one day you may realize that there is a living GOD that created us and that Heaven and Hell is not a myth but a reality.
God bless us all.

Don't you have something important to do, PtA? Like feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, ministering to the sick, visiting prisoners?

Peace To All,

You are one of my highest priority.
I will be here from time to time telling you and the others how much Jesus Christ loves you. How GOD is longing for you to accept HIM in your heart.
The message of hope has been given to you.
Accept Jesus as your personal savior and you will be save.
Believe me because I cannot lie about this matter. It is better for someone to lie about something than lie about the word of GOD.
God Bles Us All.

Infected: Peace to all

Lies. The infected only seeks to re-infect people with his or her religious meme. In this case, his or her particular strain of virus..i.e.."Christianity", uses threats of hellfire for non-compliance. That is not "peaceful".

Infected: I will be here from time to time telling you and the others how much Jesus Christ loves you. How GOD is longing for you to accept HIM in your heart.

This is a play on words. The unproven subject, "GOD", is being misrepresented by the ill and sickly as "longing" for believers, when in fact, belief is mandatory, lest the non-compliant be incinerated in the mythical place called "hell", this, as the unproven and allegedly "all-loving" character known as "GOD" stands by in the clouds and watches.

Infected: Believe me because I cannot lie about this matter. It is better for someone to lie about something than lie about the word of GOD.

All infected people lie to others, but most noteworthy, they lie to themselves. This is because the infection prevents them from seeing reality.

PissArtist: "You are one of my highest priority."

Give it up, kid. You are wasting precious time that you will never, ever get back.

"I will be here from time to time telling you and the others how much Jesus Christ loves you. How GOD is longing for you to accept HIM in your heart."

Don't count on having a long stay at this site... Our webmaster occasionally gives the boot to unoriginal, monotonous EvangiDrones like you. (Your only hope is to keep feeding us straight lines that we can use to mock your beliefs mercilessly.)

And where on Earth did you get the idea that we never heard your message? I know that *I've* heard it at least a hundred times.

I would like to remind you that the name of this site is Ex-Christian.net. We walked away on purpose.

"The message of hope has been given to you."

Hope is the denial of reality.

"Accept Jesus as your personal savior and you will be save."

I, personally, do not want to be 'saved'. If your god actually exists and created something from which humanity needs to be saved, then I assert that your god is far, far more dangerous and evil than anything it could have possibly created.

"Believe me because I cannot lie about this matter. It is better for someone to lie about something than lie about the word of GOD."

Lying is undesirable no matter why you do it. And I'll grant that you may not *think* you're lying. You may "merely" be brainwashed, deluded, undereducated and/or too scared of the Hell myth to stand up and challenge your beliefs.

But I would hazard a guess that, every time you post here, a few people move away from Christianity rather than towards it. Why do I think that? Because the garbage you're posting here is the same garbage that led Me to reject Christianity.

As I said earlier, thanks for helping us liberate even more people from your death-cult.

Marc, your religious fanatacism drives you to post, even though I've asked you dozens of times to cease. That is so sad. You really are mentally crippled and deranged by your religion. I pity you.

But, from now on I am committed to deleting every post you make.

Blessings!

Webmaster: But, from now on["Marc",] I am committed to deleting every post you make.

"Hallelujah!

And anyway, in a more recent post by "Marc", AKA "Passerby"(which has now been scrubbed), in his closing remarks he said that only "God" can change our hardened hearts.[paraphrased]

Of course, being the dipshit, impenetrably ignorant buffoon that he is, he probably isn't even aware that this shifts all responsibility to NONE other than biblegod, himself. Yes, "ONLY GOD" can reconvert apostates. In other words, there's nothing that "Passerby", "Marc", "Yogi", "Unblinded", "Anonymous" can say, or do, to win us back to belief in biblegod. Repeat: ONLY GOD can reconvert apostates....and thus, any past, present, or future attempts from "Passerby" - or any other Christian - are/were as useless as bird shit on a door handle.

Shalom!

Peace To All,

Webmaster, the people on this website needs enlightenment about the truth. You will be responsible before GOD for shielding these poor innocent souls from the word of GOD.
Remember this day that you ignore every little details about the Bible being preach by some christians trying to save these people from condemnation into the depths of Hell.
May GOD have mercy on you.
God Bless.

(thwacks PissingAwayRealLife with a clue-by-four) Attention, please.

This is Ex-Christian.net. We've read the Bible. We think it's a work of fiction.

Your most fervent, heart-rending prayer can not and will not cause a being that never existed to save people from something that never existed. Stop pretending you have 'The Truth'; you aren't fooling anyone here.

Go away.

Peace To All,

I am not trying to fool anyone.
I am only trying to spread the Word of GOD through this website because it is the truth.
I have given you testimonies from different people and yet you don't want to listen to it.
You have given reasons such as hallucinating during NDE and Bill Wiese uses his testimony about GOD to attract more people in his gathering. What else is there that you would believe in?
http://www.bereanpublishers.com/Important_Issues/concerning_the_resurrection_of_daniel.htm
The website tells the story of a pastor from Nigeria who died and been resurrected after 42 hours.
David Servant tells all about pastor Daniel Ekechukwu's journey into Heaven and Hell.
Please read his story.
God bless us all.

Hi there anonymous,

You said "I am only trying to spread the Word of GOD through this website because it is the truth."

Here's one little step you can take toward being taken seriously (although, to be honest, I can't see that ever happening). Recognize that what you are stating is an OPINION; it's something you happen to BELIEVE. Okay? As far as I know, nobody left you in charge of the "truth". Want to give it another go?

Just trying to be helpful...

PissArtist, believers' testimonies of alleged "miracles" are not acceptable here. Anyone can make up a wild story about someone coming back from the dead. We don't even know for sure that the man *was* actually dead. He may have been in a coma. Or the whole story may have simply been made up to impress particularly naïve believers.

Were you there, where it happened? Did you see the man, first dead and then alive? If so, how do *you* know he was dead? Did you have an EKG and EEG measuring heart and brain activity?

Didn't think so.

(And shame on you if you accepted the resurrection story as truth just because you read it on a Christian website. Gullibility is not a virtue.)

We want scientific data. Witnessed by non-believers; collected and tested on reliable, standard and properly calibrated equipment; and analyzed in a peer-reviewed journal so that we can read the fine details of the experiment and perhaps do the same tests ourselves.

Not hearsay from unknown people halfway around the world. And certainly not ancient Mesopotamian and Semitic mythology.

Until you can deliver unbiased, scientifically authenticated data regarding your alleged god and its activities on this planet, you are wasting your time here. You have no truth to give us, only ancient fables and modern lies. And we've had quite enough of that shit, thank you.

Peace To All,

Jim, I am only testifying what is written in the Bible. Obviously, I am not the truth. The Bible speaks of the truth and that is what I am proclaiming. Read the Bible so you will understand more about the Word of GOD.
Astreja, David Servant is the one who interviewed Pastor Daniel about his resurrection / back from the dead. He's got all the details.
Why not e-mail him so you can satisfy your curiosity regarding Scientific evidence? Let me know if you have any luck at all because it seems that your mind is corrupted with "To see is to believe" attitude.
Don't you trust anyone aside from yourself?
GOD bless us all.

Thank you for the reply, Anonymous. You said

"I am only testifying what is written in the Bible."

No, that's not quite true. You are claiming far more than "The Bible says X, y, and z," which would be objectively verifiable statements. You said "I am only trying to spread the Word of GOD... because it is the truth." (emphasis added) Thus, you are making an enormous claim. Do you see that?

Anonymous: "Obviously, I am not the truth."

Obviously! I didn't suggest that you were. What you are claiming is that you are in possession of the truth. Right? That's what I take issue with. You are merely stating an opinion.

Anonymous: "The Bible speaks of the truth and that is what I am proclaiming."

Bingo. Proclaim all you like. It's your opinion. That is, unless or until you can substantiate it.

Anonymous: "Read the Bible so you will understand more about the Word of GOD."

You are being extremely presumptuous. Nearly everyone here has read the Bible, including me. I've studied it (and Christianity in general) for decades. To me it is clearly the work of an ancient society, just as every other so-called holy book is. Have you studied the history of your Bible? Have you read it all, from Genesis to Revelation? Have you read anything critical of the Bible or Christianity?

To Astreja you said "...it seems that your mind is corrupted with 'To see is to believe' attitude.
Don't you trust anyone aside from yourself?"

Pardon me, but that is extremely rude. Do you not see anything wrong with what you said to Astreja? Do you think you can muster the humility to offer an apology to Astreja?

Jim said: "That's what I take issue with. You are merely stating an opinion."

And so are you. Your opinion is anchored to the natural order. Ours, anchored to the spiritual order.

You deny the spiritual order but we see that the spiritual order transcends nature. This cannot be seen by you unless God reveals it to you.

You can call it OCD, or stupidity, or credulity, or whatever you like but, by God's grace, you cannot and will not ever take it away from authentic Christians. Our Faith is ours to keep because we love our God, as He revealed Himself through His son Jesus.

We, Christians, will continue to pray for all you because we absolutely do not desire your damnation.

Peace

gee thanks taylor, i feel