Sent in by
Harrison McNicholHey everybody. Me again. :) I wrote recently in
"What Am I?", saying that I really didn't know all the answers and that I wasn't sure what I was, but that I was having trouble with the Concept of Hell, and all that other stuff. I was confused and scared and thought the world was falling apart on me.
Today I have finally realized my answers. I'm not neccessarily rejecting "God" as a life-force inside us all. What I am rejecting is the "Christian God". I am saying farewell to religion, farewell to Christianity. In saying that, I do not mean now that I am anti-religious. I know that it plays a role in society and benefits some people and I respect people whatever faith they have or don't have.
As it stands now, I no longer believe in that invisible man in the sky who created an imperfect creation and sent his son to try to fix things by being sacrificed. I no longer believe that God is a malicious being who tells his followers to kill other people because they are evil.
There are too many contradictions in the bible and in the church doctrine to believe that it comes from a perfect being (God). The bible was man made, and thus is imperfect just like me. A perfect God wouldn't have had imperfect people write a book. When Jesus speaks in the new Testament it is as if words are being put into his mouth.
If there is a God, then God is that higher power inside us. That life force that connects us with everything else in the universe. Moreover, there is not this place called hell that God sends us to because we disagreed with Him/Her/It. And that's another thing too, if there is a God, God has no gender. God is merely a life force as I said, and when I die I will go back to the source, to that life that gave me life inside myself.
When I first came to this site a long time ago, I thought that is was an evil place because non-christians congregate here. Over time I have grown up and learned that one doesn't need Christianity or Religion to live a good and happy life.
I admit that in the back of mind there is this little tinge that says "what if you're wrong about your disbelief?....what if Christianity is the real religion and you will burn in hell when you die because you rejected God?" As I"m sure most of you reading this will tell me, those tinges will dissipate over time and I will awaken to the real me. The me that doesn't need a book or a church to tell me what to do. The me that says YES to living life and treating others with respect. The me that says NO to living in fear and believing all non-Christians will burn in hell for eternity.
If there is a God, I think God would judge all people based on how they treated their fellow human being, not on what religious rituals they adhered to. I have a hard time now believing in the doctrines that I was taught in the Bible College. I have a hard time believing that my newfound free thinking is such an evil thing.
Can I live a good and happy life without Christianity? Yes, indeed, and I am not the only one.
The reason I am not going full-tilt and saying that there is no God (ie. Athiesm), is that I believe in my recovery program and that there was a higher power in me that helped me to overcome my addictions. That higher power can be whatever concept I think it to be. I know that other people in recovery programs don't feel the need to believe in a higher power and they still recover. Thank God my higher power will help me overcome my addiction to religion. :)
Peace out, and peace within.
I can now say with the rest of you that I am, an Ex-Christian. :)
Regina
Canada
Joined: 4
Left: 26
Was: United/Evangelical/Muslim
Now: Truth Seeker
De-converted because:
Could no longer buy the illusion
email: spare AT accesscomm DOT ca
If that is the case,
1) The God in question wasn't worth following
2) There'll be some many normal people in Hell we could lead a revolution and storm the gates of heaven :)
I like the thought, since if the God of Abraham is anything but a mountebank, I'll be spitting in his eye come Judgement Day...
Love and hugs
Grandpa Harley
p.s. A great post
The God I believe in is not some invisible dude in the sky. He lives in my, every day. He is so close to my every move, my every thought that He lives through me. I am not afraid of Him, I am not scared that He will burn me if I sin agains Him. He is my God of piece and of mercy but most of all of love and compassion and understanding.
I didn't post this comment to convert you. To each his own. It just feels like we had different Gods, even if we were both Christians, as I still am.
Welcome and congratulations on realzing that christianity and the god depicted in the bible (in fact, all gods in any so-called holy book) are wholly man-made. Enjoy your new life of freedom and rationality.
P.S. I like your definition of god as being the life force in us all; I think that's the closest any of us will ever get to defining god in this life.
In actuality you are saying: When I read your post, it made me think contrary to my brainwashing – it bothered me and took me out of my comfort zone, that warm fluffy feeling. In order for me to push the thought aside, I will precede with the attempts to convince you (convince myself).
Well, it's all cleared up now. Guess all of us here will be reconverting having read your clarification.
Are you attesting to the fact that there is more than one "Christian god?" Could one of them be that pissy bastard of the OT (Old Testicles…I mean Testament) call Yahweh, the one and only The Almighty Screw-up?
Hey, do yourself a huge favor: Get Hooked on Phonics! Slowly, put down the weapon (the bloodthirsty bible), pick up a Non-Fiction, and read it. Also, take the time to learn HOMONYMS (words that sound alike but spelt differently).
These are JUST some of the things that will benefit you in the long haul...not some crazed barbaric book written by goat herders over 3,000+ years ago.
I am not afraid of Him, I am not scared that He will burn me if I sin agains Him.
I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet you believe he will burn us in hell though, right? Guess what, if your god is imaginary, and the Muslim god is real, you will burn in hell along with the rest of non-believers everywhere. Chew on that awhile. I don't have a god and am not afraid of your god either. In fact, I'm not afraid on any gods. Invisible gods are powerless. Run along now, and try to convince the Muslims how wrong they are. Leave us be.
I wouldn't worry about the burning in hell crap, if a Christian can't lead by example (and few if any do) then the "eternal life" carrot and "lakes of fire" stick is all they've got left. They sure can't point to any credible evidence to support their worldview (unless you believe the Virgin Mary's face miraculously appeared on a grilled cheese sandwich.) And anyway according to the Bible most people are going to hell:
Matthew 7:14: "Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
So basically God created man so that he would go straight to hell, with a few exceptions. Nice, huh?
Anonymous wrote:
"He is so close to my every move, my every thought that He lives through me."
That's great, anonymous. So what are you doing to help your fellow man? Or is it just about you?
I love it! This should serve as a reminder to all of us Ex-ers that not all Christians are ignorant.......but yet, that most illiterate morons are religious. Can I get an "Amen"? lol
I wonder which preacher anony heard that metaphor from? Benny Hinn or Robert Tilton, etc.
It would be nice to hear something original from a xtian but all they can do is parrot something they've heard other brainwashed idiots say.
It's all garbage that came out of a BOOK, a self-righteous book written by men, to control men, to forgive men, brought over here by Christopher Columbus.
Listen to the self-righteousness spewing from the fundy, it makes them feel spiritually superior.
Close your eyes real tight and repeat after me:
There a no gods anywhere, alive or ever existed to roast me in firey furnace for being human.
Couldn't the force behind all creation, UN-create everything if it wanted to? In an instant?.
Couldn't that force make us all perfect if it wanted to? Today?
Is God not omnipotent?
NO ONE KNOWS, BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHAT GOD IS.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!
Dano (Waiting for a bigger (God gland)
Well, be troubled no longer because the 'concept of Hell' has no basis in the Bible. It is yet another fear doctrine devised by the Christian churches.
The bible plainly states that the 'dead know nothing'.
Jesus made use of the word 'Gehenna' ('hell) eleven times. Now Gehenna was a physical place - the Valley of the Son of Hinnom south-east of Jerusalem. (Gai Ben Hinnom in Hebrew)
In his time, it was the local 'rubbish' dump, a place of 'vile' things, animal carcases and the bodies of executed criminals. Permanent fires burned there (according to some stories, with the addition of brimstone) to prevent outbreaks of disease. But this same Valley of Hinnom had a much more fiery past - hideous practices had been carried out there in the name of Moloch (the old Canaanite Sun-God, Baal).
The worship of Moloch involved sacrificing children by making them "pass through the fire". For a graphic description of this place check Jeremiah 19:26.
Fire, human sacrifice, and idolatry eventually became synonomous with Gehenna. Jesus used the word Gehenna as a symbol to illustrate the 'spiritual' horrors accompanying 'spiritual' isolation from the one, true God of Israel.
Put simply: 'hell' was a place where one was spiritually isolated from God; 'heaven' was its opposite.
I am a student studying BsC IT, I am a 21 year old girl who probibly has alot more to learn. English is not my first language and spelling is not really my strong point - so apologies for that.
Again, I didn't post anything to try and convert anybody. I will admit, I have found myself in a bit of a (what did you call it?)'fuzzy comfort zone', and this site is a great eye opener for me.
You guys quote the bible, you read books concerning the topic (no doubt Darwin), you talked to people and obviously put alot of thought into your conversion from christian to ex-christian. And you are content.
But don't make the mistake of accusing me of not doing the same thing. I didn't let anyone chose my religion for me, I did exactly what you did; I just chose the other way. And I am content.
I in no way feel "spiritually superior" to anyone. Make sure that you don't make the same mistake to which you are condemming me. We both made choices, we chose differenty and I respect your choice, try to do the same with mine.
anonymous
You state that your God "is my God of piece and of mercy but most of all of love and compassion and understanding. Can I ask a question? Explain how your God of peace, mercy, compassion and understanding allows children to starve to death, people to kill one another for trivial matters and did nothing for slavery. Would you think your God was so compassionate if your child was starving to death? Is your God so understanding that he will not condemn others to Hell for differing beliefs. Does your God show mercy by ending suffering? And tell me how does your God promote peace when we have people fighting one another all over the world?
I don't believe that my God intended the world to come to this: war, starvation, suffering ect. I believe that this is the result of free will and satan.
God never intends bad things to happen to his children, but He can't mess with free will (remember the movie Bruce Almighty).
But He will give us the strength and the understanding to deal with all the stuff that crosses out path.
anonymous
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.?
You believe just what *you* want to believe!
Religions and beliefs are all about you and what you want to believe, to make you feel better about yourself, we don't need lies and myths to feel better about ourselves, but you and all christains do.
You need lies and myths so you can live in a false comfort zone just as you mentioned, we do not need lies and myths, we live in reality, surrounded by people that live in lies and myths.
When you say such things as "It pressed hard on my heart." although you may have meant for it to mean something else, it was plainly a lie.
Nothing pressed hard on your heart, if it did you would be dead, but those metaphors are the accepted lies approved by the church.
Whether you realize it or not when you use the heart as an expression of emotion, it plainly is a total lie!
This makes you and anyone using Heart metaphors, Liars!
The heart is not the center of thought and emotion, the brain is, but surely God would have known that the heart is not the center of all thought and emotion? But the Bible writers had no medical knowledge, they thought that the heart was the center of all thought and emotion. The brain is the center of all thought and emotion, but the Bible writers had no knowledge of the brain.
This is one of the many truths that totally debunks the Bible as being inspired word from a God!
The Heart is a pump, it pumps blood only, it does not think, speak, have eyes, ears, get heavy, have a rudder, get sad, cry, get bitter, etc.
Whether you realize it or not, you're spewing lies, using Heart metaphors!
And yes, you do have alot to learn or unlearn!
As a 21-year-old woman who still calls herself a girl, you can be forgiven for having a lot to learn, and I'm glad you admit it.
Your mention of Darwin shows that you have been indoctrinated by fundamentalistic christianity because only a very narrow-minded "believer" would cite something about evolution as being the favorite reading matter of people who have abandoned their religion. Most educated people, including most (non-fundy) christians, accept evolution as a fact, but it's not something we obsess over and it's not why we left christianity.
There are plenty of other reasons for that - including the history of how the bible and christianity came into being, not to mention that the theology makes no sense.
If you really want to learn, do what most of us did and read and study all sides of the issue - not just christian apologetics. A good place to start is by clicking on the link to "Forum" (at the top of the main page to this site) and then checking out some of the threads that appear under "Frequently Asked Questions" at the top.
I hope you'll come back someday after you've explored more and that you'll let us know what you've learned.
Thanks for the further clarification. A lot of Christians have a tendency to come here and tell us we're all going to hell and then disappear, so I think some, including myself, can get a little confrontational. Expanding on what Thackerie said the theory of evolution is not another religion or belief system, it is a scientific theory. You and I are free at any time to offer a better theory or produce evidence that refutes it. As far as your statement that God lives in you, my problem with most Christians is they go on and on about how their religion makes them feel, and never mention how their religion has led them to actually do something to help their fellow man (which is what you are supposed to do as a Christian, right?)
Vynette wrote:
"Well, be troubled no longer because the 'concept of Hell' has no basis in the Bible"
Vynette, there are plenty of references to hell in the Bible:
Deuteronomy 32:22: For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Mark 9:43: And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
Revelation 20:14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
etc etc
It is not described as a particularly benign place.
A God who ‘nevers’ and ‘can’ts’ is somewhat limited in the all-powerful department, eh?
God never intends bad things to happen?
But doesn’t he plan your birth and death? What if one or both are violent?
So, your god didn’t set in motion the abduction, rape, and beheading of 6-year old Adam Walsh? Wouldn’t God know how Adam was going to die if he, um, planned the death? And what of the murderer Ottis Toole? If God planned Adams death then Ottis was just playing out the role God laid out for him, was he not? Ottis didn’t have any free will; he was just doing God’s bidding to complete His plan.
God loves it when a plan comes together, don't you know.
By the by if God was the Colonel, Gabriel would be B.A., the Holy Ghost would be Faceman, and SATAN would be Murdock. (Dude, Satan’s on team! He’s apart of the plan.)
God the Almighty is an embodiment of pure evil, he's about 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times more evil than Satan.
God is the true form of evil, not Satan.
Jesus is also evil. He was a sadistic, vicious asshole, who really deserved he's fate for being crusifixed.
I rather go to hell than worship those two universal assholes.
Period.
Interesting Annoy even though it doesn’t matter what gender you are (but concerning the bible it does) what puzzles me is the clear-cut fact that the religion that you adhere to insults women, diminishes the value of the young and pour scorn and threats of punishment (not limited to death) on those who are different i.e. homosexuals or of a different belief.
Please let me/us know how you look the other way and “content” with it.
Thanks
South2003 (Female and a non-believer aka Atheist)
In my bible Isaiah 45:7 looks more like this: "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical] evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things."
Moral evil proceeds from the will of men, but physical evil proceeds from the will of God. God is invading Israel here since it has failed as God's servant - this is a promise to Cyrus the king of Persia that He will guide him in this battle. Nothing to do with the evil to which you reffered to earlier.
I studied phsychology, I am fully aware what the heart does and what the brain does. I am a liar for using metaphors? Harsh man. But if it will make you feel better, let me rephrase: It pressed hard on my heart will become....The Original posting moved my brain in such a way that I logically wanted to find out more about where you guys are comming from. Any better?
I don't find my religion in any way offencive to women. I didn't see this one comming. south2003, could you elaborate on this please? This is completely new to my frame of reference.
On the homosexuality subject, I don't believe that God will turn anyone away from His church. But this is indeed a sensitive subject, I realise this.
I will go through the forum, and the other links throughout the night and let you guys know what my meaning is on those subjects. But for now...Dinner awaits.
anonymous
Priceless! Okay, he can't "mess" with freewill. Oh wait, did you mean---he can, but doesn't want to "mess" with freewill?....because it'll ruin his, uh, "plan"? Then your "God" is a sadistist prick. Or... did you mean your "God" wants to "mess" with freewill, but is unable? If so, then your "God" is nothing more than a diaper-wearin' feable old man playing the role of "God".(remember the movie "Oh, God" ?)
Phewww, what a relief!---I'm glad THAT's cleared up---for a minute there, I thought I was actually going to be spending an eternity being jabbed in the ass by some mean ol' pitchfork wieldin' dude dressed in a red leotard. It's nice to finely get the one True™ interpretation of what the bible "really says".
The bible plainly states that the 'dead know nothing'.
Oh cuts!!... the Truth™ is apparently bitter-sweet---you mean, no Heaven, either?...::sniff sniff::...
Annoy, it’s not surprising that most Christian women do not know how the bible sees them as a person. With almost every other page of the bible the disparaging insults are prominently written. As one Heretic (Atheist) describes it – “Pearls in the Dung.” Here is just a few:
How to sell your daughters:
Exodus21:7
Women are unclean:
Exodus12:1-5.
Exodus15:19-30, 33
Leviticus 27:3-7
Make sure you are virgin, otherwise you are unclean:
Leviticus 21:13-14
A Women’s worth if she is a slave: (Even if he raped her?)
Exodus 19:20-22
A woman’s worth for just being a woman:
Exodus 27:3-7
The fate of a rapped (virgin) woman:
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
A woman’s rapist can buy her for the right price $$$. She has no choice but to marry him:
Deuteronomy 22:29-29
Pretty captive women are fair game, that's if you want them:
Deuteronomy 21:11-14
I especially love this one:
Women can cause a man to go to hell: The hundred and forty and four thousand ... which were not defiled with women: Revelation 14: 1-4.
If you think it’s only the OT that belittles women, think again. The NT is also guilty. For the sake of bandwidth space, you can continue to read further here: Skeptics Annotated bible: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html.
”On the homosexuality subject, I don't believe that God will turn anyone away from His church.”
Really! Show me in the bible. I guess you didn’t see this one coming either. Here is what your bible has to say about that:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- Leviticus.20:13
Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. Leviticus18:22
If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. Leviticus 20:13
Homosexuals are equated to the likes of thieves and murders vile and profane people worthy of death and torment. Romans 1 -1:32
“ But this is indeed a sensitive subject, I realise this.”
Why is it a sensitive subject? Why are fundamentalists Christians including some moderate Christian bend out of shape over another person’s orientation? Could it be because the bible says so!
~Next lesson #3~
Hear what god has to say about the handicaps and in lesson #4, we will explore what god does with unbelievers.
Until next time, take care and thanks for tuning in.
South2003M (who knows a woman’s worth because she is one)
Tell me what you believe as I have told you what I believe.
anonymous
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html
A few things I would like to straighten out:
The site states:
When Jesus' mother wants to see him, Jesus asks, "Who is my mother?" matt 12:47-49
If you read the entire sentince it states:
Someone said to Him, Listen! Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to You. But He replied to the man who told Him, Who is my mother, and who are My brothers?
The site states:
Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. matt 19:29
The bible states:
And anyone and everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or land for My name's sake will receive many [even a hundred] times more and will inherit eternal life.
For the sake of bandwidth space I will stop with two. You always read books in one sentence?
On homosexuality, this is what my mind is playing with:
Is homosexuality a choice or are you born a homosexual. If you are born that way, there is no way that God can condemn you. If it is a choice - rather choose against it. There is absolutely no proof to let me choose either side, so I stick firmly that God will not send anyone away from His church.
anonymous
"Anonymous"---firstly, try hitting the "other" button and making up an alias so I/we don't get you confused with the gazillion other "Anonymous" fundamentalist posters who post here. If I click on "recent comments" and see 10 posts from "anonymous" posters...well, you figure it out.
Secondly, there's not much to discuss until you can convince me that your arguement amounts to anything more than "I believe". So far, I'm not convinced.
Thirdly, I wonder if it's really that my comments aren't, uh, "sensefull"..or if it's because you don't agree with them? No, actually, I don't wonder.
Lastly, it's not about what "I believe"...it's about what I don't believe---and I don't believe in your "God" for the same reason(s) that you don't believe in Allah, Buddha, and Shazam. It seems that you are a "skeptic" too.
No evidence--no belief...it's that simple.
boomSLANG will defend him/herself...
Him.
The site states:
When Jesus' mother wants to see him, Jesus asks, "Who is my mother?" matt 12:47-49”
And while you are at it, straighten this one out: Luke 14:26.
Have you every heard of the term “to summarize?” Well that is what skeptics annotated bible is doing. As far as I’m concern, you have not addressed one iota on how you are depicted in the bible as a woman. Why don’t you straighten out the verse that I posted earlier, do me a favor and stop being evasive.
“Is homosexuality a choice or are you born a homosexual… There is absolutely no proof to let me choose either side, so I stick firmly that God will not send anyone away from His church.”
The point I’m trying to make is: According to your bible, homosexuals are an abomination, scandalous, a disgrace, disliked and not accepted only worthy of death. Furthermore, the bible made no distinction between “being born” a homosexual or one becoming one by choice, it just states you are to be put to death for being a Homosexual. Get it?
Therefore, I conclude that either you believe that the bible is all wrong about a homosexual’s fate…humm or maybe what it says about their fate makes you uncomfortable or….I curious Annoy, If homosexuality is a choice, why would anyone chose to be an abomination?
we know it's what you don't believe. Your angry at a nonexisting object...i remember..
www.carm.org
www.carm.org
broomslug said: Lastly, it's not about what 'I believe'
we know it's what you don't believe. Your angry at a nonexisting object...i remember..
No, not angry.....but concerned that grown adults in the year 2006 believe in, defend, and worship a "nonexisting object".....as well as, they don't know the contraction for "you are".
www.godisimaginary
You said that homosexuality is not a choice. The evidence does seem to support that, at least for some. But to my way of thinking, the issue as to whether it's a "choice" or not is a red herring. The vast majority of those who exhibit bigotry toward gays (in my experience) are bolstered by cherry-picked religious dogma. For example, if you're going to use Leviticus to attack gays, should you not adhere to ALL of Leviticus, Deuteronomy, etc.? Should you not be equally appalled by those who insist on eating shellfish? Should you not be advocating death for homosexuals?
See, fella? Anyone can put an interesting spin on a screen name. Now, if you've gotten the name-calling out of your system, maybe we can all act like grownups here. Or not. I'm a-okay with questioning your masculinity or femininity. As far as I'm concerned, it makes for a good laugh, and if you're going to act like a child, you should be treated like one.
"Homosexuality is not a choice...They were born that way..."
. . . but there's a catch, ain't there, Mr. Salesman?
"just like we were all born sinners."
And there it is.
So, lemme git 'dis straight he-ya . . . according to your own personal One True Doctrine (TM), newborn babies deserve to go to Hell? A newborn baby, exactly one second old, is meant for the 'Lake a' Far'? I mean, you can't tell me we're BORN sinners and that babies are EXEMPT from that, because being a baby is, well, a rather large part of the whole being BORN thing . . . y'know, it's kinda' necessary. Can't be born if you're not a baby. Full-grown adults don't just pop otta' there. It's why full-grown adults can't get IN there to begin with :D
I had always heard the One True Doctrine (TM) that babies were not sinners, because they were under the age of accountability. You seem to disagree. What kind of person says babies deserve to go to Hell?
"When a person who says that they were "born gay" they are right. We are all born in sin...."Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned," (Rom. 5:12)."
I'm not so sure that people are 'born gay'. I'm more of a mind that people are born with biological activators that can work either way, depending on any given number of factors such as environment, genetics, and parents. I will agree that your sexuality is your sexuality, and nothing can change that.
But let's talk about this SIN thing. Your own Bilebull says in the OT that a man shall not be punished for the transgressions of another nor for those that came before him. Yet here we are being punished for something two people none of us has ever known did. I have a problem with that. Any healthy, logical, reasonable adult would have a problem with that. Somehow, I get the feeling that you are not a healthy, logical, reasonable adult.
Nothing else needs to be said on this topic of 'original sin'. I could not care less that it does not exist in the OT; original sin is one of the most unjust notions in human history, right up there with racism, sexism, and child molesting.
christianity is a sickness. Just take a look at all the horrible things Christians have done throughout history. What else do you expect? when you tell people they deserve to be punished for something someone else did, and they better be damn happy about it, denial usually manifests itself in violence.
In my bible Isaiah 45:7 looks more like this: "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical] evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things."
Moral evil proceeds from the will of men, but physical evil proceeds from the will of God. God is invading Israel here since it has failed as God's servant - this is a promise to Cyrus the king of Persia that He will guide him in this battle. Nothing to do with the evil to which you reffered to earlier.
To antonymous
Well, I did it again!!!
I used the wrong Bible!!!
I quoted per verbatim The King James version of the Bible...:-(
I was using the Satonic King James Version, not the Self-glorified Fundy Apologetic Bible!!!
KJV:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
(anon:
In my bible Isaiah 45:7 looks more like this: "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being(Who inserted this??)] and I create [physical(Who inserted this word???) evil (calamity ( Who inserted this word??); I am the Lord, Who does all these things."
Moral evil proceeds from the will of men, but physical evil proceeds from the will of God. God is invading Israel here since it has failed as God's servant - Nothing to do with the evil to which you reffered to earlier.)
So according to you, there exists different types of evil or different levels of evil depending on which type of evil you choose to lay the blame on, so physical evil is done by your imaginary God, and moral evil procedes from the will of men.
So your God created Satan and allowed Evil to penetrate men's minds, so therefore mans evil springs forth out their filthy minds, whereas physical evil, Israel-phew-those nasty Jesus rejecting-Jews, God will invade Israel -God is invading Israel here since it has failed as God's servant. This is a promise to Cyrus the king of Persia that He will guide him in this battle.
Holy Bjesus Mackerel!!!
No wonder none of us felt Saved!!!
We never knew how to properly interpret the Buy-Bull!! I thought it meant what it said, but it says what you want it to mean!!! My whole family got it wrong, including Billy Graham and he's using the Wrong Bible. He should be using your self-appointed word apologetic Bible!!!
When people use metaphors using the Heart, when knowing full-well(in 2006) that the heart is a pump, it is a lie, a falsehood, and a misnomer, therefore you corrected yourself, when all along you've been perpetrating, yes lies, and how long have you been perpetrating lies? All your life perhaps!!! A deadly sin, punishable by fire for all eternity. Thy shall not bare false witness!!!!
You're completely in denial of truth, you wouldn't recognize truth if it slapped you in the face.
antonymous, you live in such a mental fantasy, it's so sad to see such a young victim become so brain-warped beyond intelligent comprehension, but you are the perfect canidate for the religious disease, you are mentally unhealthy, you been infected with the myth virus, you cannot see the forest for the trees, you are dead in Christ, physically dead and mentally dead, you have lost all your born/with intelligence for a false promise, you are now an official religious zombie fundybot zealot!
Was your dinner Kosher, or was it just raw fish, bread and wine?
My heart goes out to you, see how stupid that sounds??? no!
In fact, the Gods of Mt. Olympus have just as much evidence for existence as Jehovah.
I guess I'm just angry at Islam, Zeus and Yahweh because they don't exist.
When I see the religious lunacy posted here day after day, it makes me wonder how we humans ever left the jungles.
What are the sins you've committed that would warrant an eternal life of horrific tortured suffering in hell?
Just wondering.
Thanks for your response.
The Hebrew word used in Deut 32:22 is 'sheol'. Sheol is nothing more than the grave.
"For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything at all...whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, whither thou goest." (Ecclesiastes 9:5-10).
In Mark 9:43, Jesus uses the word 'gehenna' which, I have suggested, is merely a place of spiritual isolation from god. As for unquenchable fire, look further to verse 49 and you will see that all will be 'salted with fire'.
As to the 'lake of fire' in Revelation - could a literal fire consume spirit beings or concepts? The devil, the beast, the false prophet?
There are certain texts where the word 'fire' can only be taken metaphorically.
One proposition in the bible is that the 'word of god' is a consuming fire that burns up the stubble of false values and false fronts. Hence the 'refiner's fire' of Malachi. That is the fire that will never be quenched. I could go on and on but that would no doubt bore everyone else to tears so I'll just provide one little quote. Please keep in mind that I only argue on texts, not on their veracity or otherwise.
"Therefore thus says Yahweh, the God of Armies, Because you speak this word, behold, I will make my words in your mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them. (Jer 5:14)
Boomslang,
Sad isn't it? No heaven somewhere else I mean. It's mindboggling that some/all? Christian churches haven't yet discovered that the 'Kingdom of God' or 'Kingdom of Heaven' was always an earthly Kingdom to be ruled over by an earthly king - a "messiah'. The so-called 'infancy narratives' were written to prove that Jesus was a descendant of King David - that's all, all, all.
Sorry, got a bit carried away with tittering that it's been two thousand years and still no comprende!
For using a metaphor I will burn in hell? Do you have any idea how stupid you sound? You are pulling things way out of proportion man.
I am quoting the amplified bible. It is like a bible for scholars, studying the bible. You are going to see whatever you want to see in the bible...no amount of quotes from my side is going to change that. I see it differently, same with the feministic postings.
My dinner was great: pap and wors, a traditional South African plate. If you ever find yourself in SA, I'd be happy to make you some.
anonymous (as the real anonymous I will end all of my postings with - anonymous....it takes less time posting under anonymous)
If the bible were an objective truth, inspired by an "Omniscient" being, one wouldn't need "scholars" to decipher it. Furthermore, why would such a "Divine" being need a mortal's help in ANY regard? 'Seems ludicrous to me.
You are going to see whatever you want to see in the bible
Um, precisely. That's because the bible, and all religious belief, is totally subjective.
anonymous (as the real anonymous I will end all of my postings with - anonymous....it takes less time posting under anonymous)
It also takes "less time" to just believe what someone has told you, when seeking truth. Ironic?
You can always direct your questions to Vynette---she apparently has the one True™ interpretation of Christianity = )
Annoy, so in other words, the amplified bible rationalizes and updates the filth. No wonder you can easily dismiss the sadistic, misogynistic and narcissist teachings in this book.
"...same with the feministic postings."
"feministic postings?" I think you meant to say sexist postings...straight from your holy bible.
I also noticed that your spelling has improved immensely (in a day or two), and you are also speaking as a second person, possibly a male? Where is the 21 year old, unable to spell check “girl” that posted earlier?
That explains it. Thanks!
"You are going to see whatever you want to see in the bible."
That's exactly right, because there is no evidence to substantiate the various claims made in the Bible. These are claims about the very nature of reality, and none of them can be verified. Christians are constantly moving the goalposts regarding scientific proof of Biblical claims, now they are talking about unknowns in quantum mechanics. And no one has come ever back from the dead with an eyewitness account of angels in heaven or lakes of fire in hell. So strictly from a practical standpoint the Bible doesn't offer much anymore, the parts about behaving ethically are good but you don't need to follow a religion in order to act ethically.
HEY JAYBIRD!!!
What are the sins you've committed that would warrant an eternal life of horrific tortured suffering in hell?
Just wondering."
Me too Jay Jay...what could that be?
Here is what god has to say about the handicaps taken from the KJV and not from the AMPLIFIED version.
We all know that god makes people deaf dumb and blind. The bible says so:
Ex.4:11
Who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
After he makes them deaf dumb and blind, he makes them an outcast. The bible says so:
Lev.21:17-23
Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. ... Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.
Sweet!
God the Almighty is an embodiment of pure evil, he's about 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times more evil than Satan. >>>
The person who posted those comments left out a couple of things.
God is a jealous selfish asshole who cares about nobody or their happiness. He's cares only about himself, and is self-absorbed. God also requires Christians, and other religious losers to stroke his ego on a continual basis, because the poor pathetic spiritual baby has a major insecurity problem.
QUOTE GOD: "I am God!!! Surrender your will to me or I'll throw you in hell!"
I can hear the Spritual Bully saying that now. God reminds me of a 5 year old spiritual playground bully who uses his power to scare, and push people around so he can get his way.
One other final note:
<<< God is the true form of evil, not Satan. >>>
Satan and God are the same being.
Satan is basically God when he's pissed off.
The Real Trinity:
1) The Father
2) The Son
3) The Holy Spirit
4) Satan
There you go!
What a convenient excuse for people who don't want to own up to the shit they've done... "The Holy Spirit / Satan made me do it."
And you're still not right, Claire.
Believing in fantastic deities that threaten unbelievers with everlasting torment does not make such creatures true.