Rev Nathon Q, DeesMy name was the Rev. Nathon Q. Dees Associate Pastor of the First Baptist Church of Sheldon, Texas an alumni of The Abundant Life School of Ministry and a prospective member of the Alliance Christian motorcycle ministry.
Now my I’m just plain old Nathon living on a beach in Jaco, Costa Rica on a US government pension check for being mentally disabled from Schizoaffective Disorder 295.7 as defined by the MSD IV.
I delivered myself from Satanic possession, Demonic oppression, angels, devils, heaven, hell and the church but it cost me everything including my wife, friends and even my country to know and accept the fact that I was mentally I’ll and that everything that I believed was a delusion caused by my illness and perpetuated by the lies of Christianity.
Now that I have traded theology books for psychology and philosophy books it is very clear to me that I was mentally ill even as a small child. When attending Sunday school the concepts and subject mater of Christian doctrine where so surreal that even at that time I was experiencing grandiose delusions of spiritual callings and divine purpose and believed this way until I was introduced to marijuana at the age of 13 and stopped attending church because of the prejudices that now applied toward me. I was unknowingly self medicating as a means to stabilize my illness and since everything I believed was wrong according to the church, for the next eight years I devoted my energies toward using my special powers or gifts to become a rock star and hating Christians.
At the age of twenty I went to an outdoor rock concert and there were some friends of mine that had become born again and had a Christian rock band. When I went backstage to visit them this evangelical guy from a similar heavy metal background was trying to convince me that Satan had possessed my mind and body through heavy metal music and that the voices in my head were demons and I told him he was full of shit, that’s when I had my first full blown audio hallucination and heard the voice of God tell me that I was un-pure and that I was arguing with a child of God. Well being completely freaked out by this experience I of course repented and joined a church the next day. when I explained to the pastors and clergy the background I came from and that even though I had accepted Jesus and believed I was still hearing the voices and the voices told me that Jesus wasn’t real, they all jumped on me and started performing an exorcism and cast the demons out of me. They said that the reason the demons had such a strong hold on me was because of the special calling on my life and that I would need the help of the holy spirit to give me power over the demons, then gave me bible scriptures to back up all crap they were telling me.
Well not wanting to be a pawn of Satan any more and needing an answer for my talents, insight and abilities as well as seeing visions and hearing voices, after all I had been in heavy metal bands and listened to Satanic heavy metal music, I had been wasted and hated Christians for eight years, so it was completely logical. I received the gift of the holy spirit with the evidence of babbling a bunch of psychotic bullshit that doesn’t mean anything and was completely delivered from drugs and alcohol.
Well with this new power, I found that through prayer and meditation in the scriptures and by babbling for hours I could occupy my mind and control the voices in my head or at least discern between the voice of God, the voice of the spirit, my own mind and the voice of Satan. Now I had all the answers, I had super powers beyond that of mere mortals I had become the Apostle Nathon Dees. How could I possibly be wrong? I made strait A’s in seminary, I was a brilliant orator, I was successful, talented and people believed in me because I was called, set apart, recognized by my peers, licensed and ordained to preach the gospel, heal the sick, cast out demons, lead people to the kingdom of God and operate in the gifts of the spirit. I was completely delusional totally schizoaffective and on my way to the funny farm. I existed this way for nearly fifteen years before I was finally diagnose as being mentally ill and woke up from the fairy tail land of Christianity.
About the time of the 9/11 attack I was having problems with my marriage because my wife who is still an un diagnosed Christian psycho thought I didn’t really love her for some reason. Well this must have been the greatest Demonic attack of my life because neither God or the Holy Ghost would defend me in this mater and tell my wife the truth that I would have gladly laid down my own life for her. I was really cracking up over this and the thought of loosing everything when I had done nothing wrong only entered me into the “Holy Job” category which I did not want to be in. During this time of trouble a good friend gave me a joint and told me I had better smoke it and just chill out for a while or I was going to loose it. When I sat in my back yard and smoked a joint, for the first time since I had been saved, I realized that everything in my life was a complete lie and that if I truly believed the things is professed to believe that I was a complete paranoid schizophrenic and that I was no different than the kooks that performed the terror acts of 9/11. My wife, along with my friends and peers in the church said that this was an attack from Satan or attributed it to the pot but I knew clearly by this time that I had wandered out of the God box and I knew too much to ever go back in.
I needed to find out the truth once and for all so in a classic bi polar move I divorced the girl of my dreams ( who didn’t believe I loved her ), closed my business, sold and gave away everything that I had, took my two kids and moved to a beach on the pacific coast of Costa Rica.
Here I would find out once and for all what was real and what was not. During this time period I did a lot of soul searching and inner healing dealing with hating my wife and hating Christians. Still completely delusional undiagnosed and untreated and without religion to protect me from myself I partied my ass off and surfed and swam and tried to come up with a new purpose or plan. After nine months of effort to start a new business and life in Costa Rica everything I had tried fell through for one reason or another, then I suffered another nervous breakdown. I was broke and hopeless and ready to go home. I had a new explanation and mission when I returned to the US, I was still an apostle, but God had called me out of the church because I had been chosen to bring the light of God to non Christians and stand in direct opposition to the false Christian church and their lying doctrines. I went back to the states and started a non profit association and started counseling people with two other pastor friends that had been excommunicated by the church and didn’t agree with mainstream Christianity. During this time I was again completely manic and making all kinds of things happen, I was getting ready to take over the world and willing to die for what I believed was true. I had all of the influences from society in the US, all the churches, all my Christian friends waiting for me to be delivered from Satan again and my beautiful wife whom I loved dearly, speaking in tongues and claiming our marriage in the name of Jesus ( God finally told her that I really loved her ) and praying for me all the time and trying to suck me back into the delusional lies of Christian faith. Well between that, my business, my investments in Costa Rica and my new found anti Christian faith I suffered my final nervous break down to date.
That is when I finally put down my theology books and started studying psychology for an answer, by the time I finished my research I knew for a fact that I was mentally ill and had been the whole time. This was the third time I had went to a doctor for mental and emotional issues but it was the first time that I had educated myself enough to know that science was not the enemy of God and was prepared to accept the diagnoses. Since I had diagnosed myself and I had done a tremendous amount of research on the science of mental illness I was looking for a confirmation, boy did I get one.
Three different mental health professionals concluded that I did in fact have extreme Schizoaffective disorder and that my sixteen year old son had it too. One doctor said that it was unbelievable that I had never been hospitalized for my condition and wanted to know how that I could have survived so long without medical treatment.
“The answer was easy” I told him, I was a right wing charismatic Christian and in fact a pastor involved in demonic deliverance ministry and that all of my hallucinations both audible and visual as well as my emotional problems and mania were perfectly acceptable in Christian doctrine and better yet even validated the gifts of my calling. I had been institutionalized with a lot of other mentally ill people using mid evil psychiatry to explain away our mental and emotional problems and the largest support group of idiots in the world to back me up and a bible to prove it.
By this time I was broke, homeless and trying to decide what was next for me now that I wasn’t an apostle and I had wasted fifteen years of my life in the church when I could have been getting help, counseling and treatment for mental illness instead of running around completely out of my mind fighting demons and talking to angels and promoting this kind of insanity to others. I felt so guilty and ashamed, I felt lied to and molested, I had been diagnosed years before and chose to believe Gods word instead of trained and educated health care professionals.
I was attending psychiatric out patient care at my local HMMR, having both my children screened and counseled while trying to adjust to five kinds of new medications. I was by myself with no support because all my friends and wife refused to believe that I was mentally ill because of the effect that it would have to wards their own beliefs. Every time I passed a church I was angry and every time I heard their unrealistic bible based bullshit I just wished they could accept my illness and start supporting me, but no Christian could ever accept a pastors willing decision to choose Hell and a life separated from God and heaven for a diagnoses of mental Illness.
When I left the church after fifteen years of faith and service to the cross, I was so mentally ill that I applied for some financial aid and after a psychiatric review and an explanation of my former Christian Beliefs, I was given full social security benefits for being completely mentally disabled and no longer able to work or function in society.
I returned to Jaco, Costa Rica where I live in a surfer hostel by the beach and protect myself and my son from the good intentions of others. I stay completely out of contact with the Christian world I once new and segregate myself from the Christian Nation of my home land. In Costa Rica the evangelical movement didn’t really go over and the people did not let the Catholic church mandate the rules of society, so for the most part it is a secular society where Christianity is not shoved down your throat. Now days I’m just a mentally ill person struggling to survive day to day without having to be institutionalized. I smoke pot to stabilize the affects of my illness ( which I can not do in the US ) and try to take my medications, but sometimes they are worse than the illness, I walk up and down on the beach each day and sometimes go to the mountains and just look at the jungle, I have no real future now so I just try to enjoy life and I don’t do much thinking about God or any metaphysical theologies that can induce psychosis. Although I live in paradise I still fight severe depression, anxiety, fear and even thoughts of suicide, but I am no longer tormented by imaginary demons from hell and I’m not killing myself and wasting my life trying to get to heaven.
I’d rather be crazy than Christian:
If you want a savior, save your self. I will be sitting on the beach waiting.
The Rev Nathon Q. Dees AKA Jaco Nate Schizoaffective Disorder 295.7
The people that still believe in religions and myths were told by their parents it was all true and cannot give up the fact that their parents were deceived by the same lies. The religious lies are exactly what is ailing this nation, and other nations. All religions are a perpetual lie, that has been spread for over 2000 years, and still being spread, and apparently cannot be stopped, nor do christians want it stopped.
When there is absolutely no proof anywhere that these things exist.
I was a believer myself so I know these thing first hand. Christianity is one of the greatest con jobs going and it has ensnared literally millions of people.
Several chapters would be "The bipolar eye of christianity (god/devil - friend/foe - salvation damnation)" you know how! The maniatic depression "Guilt, guilt, guilt", squizoide hallucinations (seeing god, mother mary, angels, and so on, hearing voices, etc.)...
Find all the mental conditions that are inserted in Christianity, read Saint Augustine works to find shreds of hallucination or Saint Thomas for other disorders, show the world that pedophilic behaviour stems from christians refusal of sex (love and rock and roll?)...
Become the first psichiatric for christians, you won't only sell a few million copies but can become (as the gfreat orator you became) a classroom teacher at several psiquiatry universities and a world class conferencist.
You have it, you know it, you been there, you know that!!!
Help the world be a better place.
Alvaro Gonzalez
algonz36@gmail.com
Listen to Alvaro, you could potentially help myriads of christians who are perpetuating their psychiatric disorders through belief in abusive doctrines to "see the light" and finally attain healing from all the Bible-thumping baloni.
However, I support your new life of simplicity, liesure, and total separation from everything christian at this point; after all the disorienting drama Christianity heaped upon your head, you need a purgitive sabbatical indeed. And, as you may have discovered already, life is still satisfying without a sense of ultimate meaning/purpose; enjoying life day by day and moment by moment, for many people, is often more satisfying than obssessing over some cosmic plan anyway.
My brother-in-law is a well-known, in some circles, missionary in Asia. I remember his mom telling me he wasn't "normal" as a kid. He became a missionary to an Asian country in his early 20s, so found something to do with his life. He just turned 60. His son, my nephew, was diagnosed about 10 years ago as schizophrenic. My nephew is now in his late 20s, lives at home in a large Asian city, can't keep a job, etc. My neice, his sister, seems to be fine. Makes me wonder if if my brother-in-law actually is somewhat schizo but found a job, so to speak, where he can function and where hearing the "voice of God", speaking in tongues, all of that, is acceptable.
Wow, Thank you for sharing your story and opening yourself up with the personal details.
I agree with Alvaro I think you should write a book in your free time. Bookstores are full of christian happy bullshit stories teaching belief and power in a make believe God/best friend who isn't there.
You never know how many people you might help set free by writing a book. Give it some thought.
I also suffer from a mental illness, though it is not 100% clear whether I have schizophrenia, bipolar, or schizoaffective disorder. Currently I am in the process of coming off my medication, which will help to determine which disorder I have. (It depends on if the illness returns and with what symptoms). I attribute my rapid recovery to abandoning my faith in God and seeking the truth using rational reasoning.
It took 6 months for someone to notice that I had a mental illness.
I'm sorry your period without medication lasted 15 years. The sooner such an illness is treated, the better. It's such a shame such ignorance still occurs.
Speaking of ignorance, it's funny how a lot of people think they have some type of mental illness and yet if they don't know what they have, how can you expect to treat it properly with a medication? Furthermore, have you asked a psychiatrist what chemical is too high or too low or missing in your brain? The minute you do, you'll see them get the deer-in-the-headlights look. Because ... there is no chemical inbalance. 99% of all "mental illness" is actually a problem with our thought processes and our thought habits and chemicals don't cause us to think certain thoughts. It's the other way around. Continually thinking certain ways can alter the physical symptoms to some degree.
I was in the mental ward of a hospital for two weeks with anxiety attacks. I had been having them for several years. The first thing the psychiatrist said without even drawing one drop of blood or asking me what my symptoms were was "Were going to give you some medicine to help deal with this chemical inbalance you have your brain."
Psychiatry is only one step above a voodoo, dark ages approach. They tell you what they want and who are you to argue with it? That sounds a lot like Christianity! God is God and who are you to say what he can or cannot do! In this same way, they control the ignorant and those too scared to question them.
I went ahead and took the antidepressant I was prescribed but after three days the side effects were causing panic-like symptoms (rapid heart rate, dry mouth, etc.) but not only that it also calls urinary retention and who knows what else in the long run? Being on this medicine caused me to have the worst panic attack I've ever had (I thought my heart was going to literally explode it was beating so hard and fast) and that day I quit taking the antidepressant and had to tell the doctors/nurses/whatever that I needed a drug to calm me down and so they allowed me to take Xanax if I felt extremely anxious. Think about it. I had to tell the doctors what I needed.
What I saw and learned in that two weeks made me realize the psychiatry is complete bullshit. It took me several years but with the help of a few meetings with two psychologists and my own desire to understand things, I was able to recover and not have any panic attacks or anxiety for about the next six years. In the last several months I have had a couple of medium-level panic attacks but now I know what they are and I know I can deal with them and I keep a couple of Xanax pills in my wallet.
Don't let a psychiatrist ruin your life! See a psychologist and address the thought processes that you may not even be aware of.
Tim
I understand your frustration with psychiatric treatments; in many cases, the medicine is simply ineffectual and sometimes even harmful together with the fact that diagnosis is not as precise as other fields.
However, your conclusion about the "bullshit" status of psychiatry seems a bit narrow minded; in that, you've generalized your own personal experience, which was negative, to castigate the whole field of psychiatry--this constitutes a classic flaw in inductive reasoning. Namely, the flaw of representing the whole based on the specific. For example, just because I'm the victim of a crime at the hands of one black person doesn't give me the logical right to gerneralize all blacks as criminals. In the same manner, just because you were the victim of imcompetence at the hands of a handful of psychiatrists does not give you the logical right to generalize all psychiatry as incompetent. Don't misconstrue me, you have the right to think and say whatever your heart desires, however, you don't possess the rationale right to render sweeping generalizations about the entire scope of psychiatry until you first refute the piles of empirical evidence in favor of psychiatric treatments. Empirical evidence meaning evidence that has been derived through observation, experience, and experimentation--the rigors of the scientific method. After all, despite your singular experience of misfortune, the field of psychiatry boasts study upon study and journal upon journal of hard-core evidence in terms of it's veracity. Your "repudiation" of psychiatry would only stick if you accomplished the gigantic task of identifying every person who has been successfully treated by psychiatric meds and demonstrated that the source of their "cure" was rooted in cognitive factors rather than the meds themselves. And I'm confident that you would miserably fail. All that being said, before you categorically condemn the field of psychiatry and encourage others to do the same based on your own experience -- as if your experience is somehow endowed with authority over the rest of humanity -- be sure to engage in a bit more reflection.
Now, I anticipate that you'll respond with a series of statistics or skeptical reviews -- many of which may be true -- but for every example of psychiatry's cons, I could list an example of psychiatry's pros. Balance is the key.
Some car mechanics, diagnose the automobile, before changing the parts.
The balance, is knowing which of the two mechanics one wants to hire, and how to tell the two apart.
But I do think it is a rather bold statement to make, if I interpret your view correctly, that Christians as a whole, or in general, should be considered lunatics. Some of the other fellow blogers stated that your view of any particular sect in society should not be limited to your own experience. I agree whole-heartedly.
I do not doubt your disease or illness, and I will not pretend to know anything about psychiatry or any other hard-to-spell 'p' words. But if you look upon Christiantitys theological standpoints, the very foundations of this religion are not based upon how many demons you can smite or how many angels you've gazed upom. Nor is this religion proven accutate by these things.
What I am getting at is, whereas you may be struck with whatever illness you have, the side effects of thst illness do not partake in Christianitys beliefs at all. Your lifetime with this illness is tragic, yes, but maybe it was a proud statement to make by abandoning the religion because your illess led led you to believe all you had been in your life was false?
No, I really don't think it's advisable to write a book about this. If you did you would find yourself running in circles trying to claim Christianity is a mind game people have tricked themselves into thinking, when there is so much carnal, physical evidence in the world that Christianity is Truth.
If needed, I will post again to clerify and or defend anything I have said. I am a Christian, and I am interested to hear all that anyone has to say about their Christian experience.
My foot and your a$$ are not the same object. Nor, does my "foot" have any direct correlation with your "a$$", either through open dialogue, or in any other form of communication. Thus, my foot, does not cause your "a$$" to think anything.
However, if I were to kick you square in your a$$ with my foot, and make that physical connection, kinda' like going to church and being physically presented with the verbal and environmental influences, a few things become possible.
One, you adapt to the pain of my foot in your a$$, two, you begin to feel as though the kick in your a$$ is normal, and you grow attached to the feeling because you feel security always knowing the foot is coming to smack you square in your crack. And then, there is the third option, where you never really adapt, and thus, see the pain involved as unnecessary.
Now, you have my views on christianity. My "foot" in your "a$$", is not a direct cause effect correlation in a normal setting, and neither is christianity when it is left to the person to choose. However, when someone proselytizes or attempts to influence someone, with their physical presence, they are creating an environment that could and in many cases, is, perceived as oppressive, and mentally abusive.
Sure, my foot and your a$$ aren't naturally connected, and to draw that conclusion without explanation is presumptious. However, when I place my foot upside your a$$, without your consent, because it says to do so in a book I picked up at Border's Book Store, then it appears there is a correlation, specifically, the amount of time my foot and your a$$ share a physical presence/connection together, directly influencing and affecting your mental presence/awareness.
Christianity to me, is nothing less, than a doctrinally obtrusive belief system, that seeks to create a mob of mental a$$ kickers. And, the followers boast of making sure they kick babies, children, and adults in their mental a$$e$ as equal opportunists, as if they are wearing some badge of courage.
If you would like another analogy, I can use the abused spouse example. So, as it stands, I have challenged christianity's doctrine, as being obtrusive, unjust, and absolutist. Perhaps, you will defend the christian cause, based on doctrine, or, perhaps, you are smart enough to know, that what has been said, is fully founded by the christian bible.
I take issue with a few posters here.
Tim:
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I've had to get professional help before; on the average, I had to go through three really bad counselors to finally get to one who was helpful. They have been an immense help to me. My singular experience with anti-depressants back in the 80's was not a good one, and I gave them a full three months trial before I stopped. I received the most help from good old fashioned psychotherapy. I do NOT however think that medication is stupid; I have seen it improve the lives of too many people to make any sort of remark. Just because I had a bad experience gives me absolutely no right to make any sweeping statements about the practice as a whole.
Now to Thurokmeir:
I find some of your remarks to be a little bit on the abhorrent side, and I figure you will be hearing about it from a lot of people here. I find it a little odd that you might consider yourself a "better representative" of your religion, yet you would tell a mentally ill gentleman he shouldn't write about his experiences ...did you happen to even consider that statement, or are you just a little too flimsy in your faith to allow an ill man one of the best forms of therapy?! Writing is one of the best ways to work through the anger issues this gentleman has; at it's worst, he might actually be able to work through some of his issues. Whether he were to ever decide to publish, the goal of a "book" is an extremely worthy goal to work up to. At best, maybe he could get it published and find a visible means of support for himself. Getting published could even turn out to be a good thing for mainstream christianity! Do you really think for a second Fred Phelps is playing with a full deck?! How about the minister who encouraged the Schlosser woman to stop taking her medication, resulting in the dismemberment of her child. Christians need to know that some of their forms of behavior promote mental illness (some here would call the entire religion a mental illness; I'm not so extreme, but when I hear comments like yours I pause to think about it a little more). Exactly who do you think you are to tell this man he shouldn't write about his experiences?!
and now:
when there is so much carnal, physical evidence in the world that Christianity is Truth
I'd like to see you provide a single shred of evidence that won't also validate any other religion as well. If there were proof of a god, then there wouldn't be anyone saying otherwise, nor any other theologies. I believe christianity has upwards of 30,000 denominations already; many of whom claim all the others are going to hell. If Christianity were such a "perfect" religion, then why can't it's own practitioners agree on it? Using a book to prove itself is not evidence. You can spout all kinds of inspirational stories, and I can point you to any number of other religions that make identical claims. A beautiful sunset may appear to be a wonderful appearance of proof for the existence of a god, but just because you have a book who tells you who that god is doesn't make your particular book or belief unique.
If you truly are trying to be a "good representative" of your religion, QUIT CHECKING YOUR BRAIN AT THE DOOR before you start shooting off your mouth!
Excellent point.
X-ian: "Jesus is real, because He talks to me."/Muslim: "Mohammad is real, because He talks to me."
X-ian: "My proof is the Holy bible--inspired by Yahweh."/Mormon: "My proof is the book of Mormon--inspired by Joseph Smith."
X-ian: "But Jesus was real, I feel it!"/Buddist: "Budda was real, I feel it!"
X-ian: "You must repent, or you'll burn in Hell!"/Universalist: "Everyone's going to Heaven!"
X-ian: "Drink this wine...the blood of Christ!"/Disciple of Jim Jones: "Mmmm, that kool-aid was yummy".....::plop::
X-ian: "You're possessed by evil. Let the Lord Jesus Christ remove the evil."/ Headhunter in the South Pacific: "Uuu, uuu...you're possessed by evil...let me remove your head."
X-ian: "I'm protected from evil...' see my cross necklace?"/Arbitrary superstitious person: "I'm protected from Vampires....smell my garlic necklace?"
X-ian: "Okay smarty-pants...then who created the Universe?"/Four year-old child: "Mommy, who created God?"
I sometimes get terrible anxiety and panic attacks, and the worst panic attack I had was when I was staying with my christian grandmother, who kept freaking me out with her spooky holy spirit stories. She knew that I used to be a christian and was trying to get me back in, rehashing to me her few holy spirit manifestations. I was going through a hard time in my life and was already under a lot of mental pressure. I suddenly became very afraid that I was going to get "possessed by god" against my will! :) I finally left my grandmother's and stayed at my brother's place, mainly to regain my mental health, but I kept having severe panics attacks after that. It was strange, I would think that god was trying to get inside my body, but in a highly invasive and creepy way. I would even get anxiety just walking by a church! After a while I stopped having these bizzare paranoid thoughts as my life got more stable.
I have had it with supernatural anything; god, satan, demons, angels, spirits, or anything like that. It just messes with your rational thinking. I would like to know how many other ex-christians felt that their bout with christianity made them lose their minds a bit.
Let's hear more.
I have also been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder and know first-hand how fundamentalists like to treat the mentally ill. They either make us out to be prophets or they make us out to be demons. But either way, they attempt to rob us of our humanity. Sad, because the illness tends to do that all on its own.
I'm truly moved by your experiences and am happy that you have achieved some peace in your life. I, too, am one of the lucky ones who have managed to find myself. Getting rid of the Christian shackles was the best thing I've ever done for my mental health. I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors:)
Enough said.
Who can blame this man as a just crazy man? If so, who are you who labels him like that? Are you really noraml?
Unfortunately, there are many religious, sects, that would claim actions aren't truth, the belief in words is the higher truth, and the true label. Sorry, I don't buy that illogical thinking. I'll stick to calling them by their actions, and shall know them by the fruits they bear.
Words that don't effect action, are useless. Actions taken, because of words, reflect the merit of the words. Makes me wonder, if this person, was a true christian, who was devoted to the word.
How about the minister who encouraged the Schlosser woman to stop taking her medication
I like to verify any comment on the Web that I might want to use. However, after several attempts to Google the Schiosser woman, I found several stories about her, but none with the comment you posted. Please give me a reference.
Max
You have dwelt in a mental hell of your own and exacerbated by myth and misguided people with good intentions. You, as I, have come a long way toward understanding the truth.
Write your story for publication. Ignore the fundamentalist demon believers. Focus on your emancipation. Let it out. Thusly, you can flush the demons of past memories.
Be content,
Max
Max
First, I don't remember if I called him "true christian." Please help me to remember where I said that.
Second, what do you mean by your "actions?" Nathon explored for the correct reason of his hallucination and found it, and acted on it in spite of the big losses with braveness. What actions do you need more? Do you want him to stay-put in the church and say something he does not believe as truths any longer? That is hypocrite, isn't it? What specific actions do you want him to do, Dave8? If you can't answer to this question, I think, it is the true(?) hypocrite case that your words are not supported by not even your thinkings. However, you are not crazy, aren't you?
there is so much carnal, physical evidence in the world that Christianity is Truth.
I, too, would like for you to present this "evidence." I have yet to hear or read of scientific evidence validating Christianity. Please grace us with this “evidence.”
I'm waiting with a palpitating heart.
Max
The first link didn't work but the second link, http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=7740&hl= did. It's interesting to note that ksat.com in San Antonio did several stories on this but never mentioned the religious aspect. So much for ksat.com's suppressing the truth.
I would suggest every Christian who comes across this page, read the story for yourself.
Max
I'll grant there is no evidence that he specifically told her not to take her medication, but in telling her that mental illness is caused by demon activity, not the mind, amounts to the same thing.
The article is an interesting read. If the DMN link no longer works it's also posted on here at:
http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=7740&hl=
I would like to move to Costa rica,if you know of a way for me to move there please contact me at
coolmtnman@verizon.net
I was raised in a christian home and became menatally ill too but was healed when I turned vegetarian and started worshipping nature. PS if you live in Costa rica I hope you go birdwatching because it's the best place in the world for that
Dyslexia?
Emptycan: "First, I don't remember if I called him "true christian."
Isolated retrograde amnesia, compounded by carpal tunnel?
Emptycan: "Please help me to remember where I said that."
Dave8: " Makes me wonder, if this person, was a true christian, who was devoted to the word."
Pronoun challenges?
Emptycan: "Who can blame this man as a just crazy man? If so, who are you who labels him like that? Are you really noraml?
Nathon Q, Dees: "The Rev Nathon Q. Dees AKA Jaco Nate Schizoaffective Disorder 295.7"
Authors' self-label.
Dave8: "Emptycan, sometimes, okay, many times, the more observant allow another persons' "actions" to define them."
Author gave examples of acts.
Emptycan: "Second, what do you mean by your "actions?" Nathon explored for the correct reason of his hallucination and found it, and acted on it in spite of the big losses with braveness. What actions do you need more?"
Can you guide me to where I stated Nathon needs to act in a certain way?
Emptycan: "Do you want him to stay-put in the church and say something he does not believe as truths any longer?"
Its not my place to tell Nathon how to live his life, or to place enfounded labels on him.
Emptycan: "That is hypocrite, isn't it?"
Yes, if someone acts differently than what they say, or believe, it is typically hypocritical. However, I didn't allude that Nathon should have stayed or left the church, I never mentioned what action Nathon should have taken, to suggest a hypocritical event.
Emptycan: "What specific actions do you want him to do, Dave8?"
Dave8: "Unfortunately, there are many religious, sects, that would claim actions aren't truth, the belief in words is the higher truth, and the true label. Sorry, I don't buy that illogical thinking. I'll stick to calling them by their actions, and shall know them by the fruits they bear."
Uh, transitioned from "actions" defining people, to giving examples, i.e., religious sects who claim words are a higher truth. Nathon, didn't make such a comment, thus, this doesn't apply to Nathon. Therefore, Emptycan, no hypocrisy.
Emptycan: "If you can't answer to this question, I think, it is the true(?) hypocrite case that your words are not supported by not even your thinkings."
No answer required for a fallacious question. And, just because someone thinks, thus creates a belief, and utters words, does not necessarily make something truthful in a universal sense, again, its actions in my "opinion" that become the higher truth.
Emptycan: "However, you are not crazy, aren't you?"
Nathon: "I’d rather be crazy than Christian:"
Emptycan, the DSM IV, defines social norms in the U.S., and mal/abnormal behaviors, according to experimental metrics. I have no, pronounced behaviors that appear in that diagnostics manual, but I am sure you are well versed in pathopsychology, aren't you?
You definitely had a bad experience with psychiatry. It's unfortunate that many people do. Anxiety can be treated successfully without drugs, that is true. However that is not true of Schizophrenia. The symptoms I suffered were delusions and hallucinations. These are psychotic symptoms and fall into a completely different category than Anxiety. Anxiety drugs can be addictive, but anti-psychotics are not. If I come off my drugs and the symptoms don't return, I'll probably be labeled schizo-affective. If they do return, I'm stuck with schizophrenia. If I have mood swings instead, I'll probably be labeled Bipolar. Unfortunately, no successful tests have been designed yet to detect these mental illnesses, and not enough is known about the brain to determine why these medications usually (but not always) work. I agree, psychiatry is not much of a science, but it is not 100% bad.
"What I am getting at is, whereas you may be struck with whatever illness you have, the side effects of thst illness do not partake in Christianitys beliefs at all. Your lifetime with this illness is tragic, yes, but maybe it was a proud statement to make by abandoning the religion because your illess led led you to believe all you had been in your life was false?"
In my experience of recovery from insanity, I found that it was easier to determine what is real from what is not when I don't believe in invisible omnipotent beings.
Can you tell me, thurokmeir, what Christianity's "standpoints" are, in your opinion?
I was raised loosely Catholic but have also read the Good News Bible used by Baptists in Australia. Probably neither of these are your brand of Christianity, however, the Bibles don't vary that much. They all make claims that Jesus' birth was prophecied by angels and that Jesus resisted temptation by 'the Devil'. I refer to Luke, Chapters 1 to 4.
Do you think Jesus would have been half as popular without the angels, devil and miracles thrown into the mix?
The point I am making is that the foundation of Christianity, the Bible, is full of angel-gazing and casting out demons, the things you scorn.
Can you really read Revelations and believe that it was written by a sane person? The person who wrote this heard voices and had visions and believed that spirits took control of him. These are all classic psychotic symptoms. Like a schizophrenic, he tries to rationalise his visions and is barely coherent in doing so.
I agree, it's out of line to say that all Christians are insane, or most of them, or even a significant number of them. But abandoning one's religion is not a symptom of insanity per se.
Given that once one is diagnosed or accused of being bi-polar - in that they can lose job opportunities, friends, marriages, custody of their children, social status, and are forced or coerced into a life of isolation, I might be inclined to sue someone who started spreading the rumor...
What do you all think? Sounds like a chunk of change to me...
heart.
Seems to me like he is just looking for a crutch... first found it in the church, then found it in psychology and now he found it by liveing off the gov't and not dealing with life.
You people will believe anything .... you're no better than the religious nut jobs.
I generally disbelieve everything and anything anonymous posters post.
That'd be you.
All I can say is you are all wrong.
Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit does really exist. He's been here since the beginning
of time. Without Him, none of us people would exist. He created us all from the dust in the ground. He is the Truth, the Way, and the Life. As for mental illness, we are a product of our thoughts. Everything we humans feel and do come from our thoughts. Our thoughts come from the words that we see, hear and speak.
The Bible says that "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he." If you want to improve your mental health, take a look at what you are thinking about. Take a look at how you are thinking.
To the guy who wrote the main story: It sounds like you've been going to all the wrong places for church. Spirituality is not just about going to church. It is about personal relationship with God, Himself. We do not have to see, hear and feel weird spooky things to be godly. It sounds like you've been going to a whole bunch of spooky churches that don't really have the power of God in them. That is enough to turn people off from God. You have not been getting the real thing, anyway. There are tons of false religions and false preachers and false doctrines out here in the world today. And people do some sick stuff in life, thinking that what they are doing is God's will, but it isn't. These people are deluded. And these people who are doing the wrong things keep other people from wanting to seek Christ. I believe that this is what happened with you. You saw so much weird junk in the church that you just said "forget it" I know what I'm talking about, because I was put off by all the hypocrocy in church too. But God, Himself is not false. If you get connected to Jesus sincerely, He will heal your mental health. That is one reason why Jesus went on the cross about 2000 years ago. He died to heal our deseases, including our mental health. So, don't give up on the Lord just because you ran into the wrong people and things in church.
The problem, as I see it, is that there is no way to "get connected to Jesus sincerely." The probable reason for this: There is no Jesus on the other end of the crisis line, just our own imaginings that something powerful loves us. It's a nice enough fantasy until you run into a real problem in your life; then, the fantasy can just as easily hurt you as help you. Some people are inspired to rise above adversity; others simply crash and burn.
Read the many Ex-timonies of people who did call for help but got none.
And, all in all, the vast majority of Ex-C's who experience mental distress get remarkably better as soon as they stop pretending that supernatural help is on the way.
So, your ancestor is dirt... and evolution is out the window; in short, you are as dumb as dirt. Your thoughts reflect as much, I suppose that goes to support your argument; chalk one point for the "dumb as dirt" debate team, what a solid argument from example.
>>All I can say is you are all wrong. Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit does really exist. He's been here since the beginning of time.
Anonymous,
Can you define this "beginning of time" you speak of?
If there was a beginning of time, then what came 'before' this great event of starting-up the big time clock in the sky.
Perhaps you meant the beginning of human time instead?
After all, we all were taught that all THREE of your god's never had a beginning.
The empty universe just magically produced three joined-at-the-hip gods from the big infinite nothing.
I'd venture to say they got tired and bored of each other after all that infinite-negative-time with no beginning, and decided to make a few stars and errr, humans from their dirt; just for kicks; of course.
>>He is the Truth, the Way, and the Life
If he's the 'truth', then why is half your bible filled with contradictions and a god who very much changes over just a few thousand years.....which of course, is only just a mere few DAYS to him?
Obvioulsy god LIES and how could one ever know which WAY he would take us if he keeps changing his story around every 'day' or so.
>>It is about personal relationship with God
I once tried to give god a big hug, but he kept turning himself invisible for some reason.
It's hard to get truly personal with someone who keeps vanishing all the time, ya know.
Next time I'm gonna be ready with a big bag of flour to dust him with, so he can't vanish on me again.
>>There are tons of false religions and false preachers and false doctrines out here in the world today
Oh gosh, Really?...Say it isn't so anon?
I knew religion was weighing on my soul, but I never realized it was TONS of it.
No wonder I felt crushed by religion and got it off of me as quickly as possible.
I'm sure glad you wrote to this site, because I'm looking forward to you teaching me your version of the RIGHT religion that you found to be FACT.
I was getting tired of weeding through all them wrong sects to find the one you discovered that is of course, THE ONE to get me my spot in heaven.
>>These people are deluded
Wanna bet they say the same about you, hmmm
Noooo, they wouldn't dare say such a thing.
Nothing like consistency through all of the Jesus sects, where he uses his holy ghost buddy to teach all his xtians his one and only truth with.
>>But God, Himself is not false
Wow, you found the only true god, did ya.
Perhaps you could write a book about your true god and send it out to all of us?
I really thought god would have done this himself by now, but after 2000 years of being on vacation, I guess he got spoiled and lazy, and decided it was too much work to update his errant bible book?
>>That is one reason why Jesus went on the cross about 2000 years ago.
Ohhhhh, is this the part where god dies on the cross for our huge sins and was dead for 'three' days?
Should I bring popcorn for this story you're telling us?
Okay, explain these thing to me then:
If god is immortal and can never die, and if jesus was god, how could god-jesus actually die for real?
If jesus wasn't really a god when he died on the cross, then how could a mere lowly human jesus remove that horrid original sin and get us a pardon from eternal death (or hell)?
Can you show me in written human history (outside your fable bible) where it is written that your jesus lived and died and performed all those miracles and had a huge gathering of followers and even bunches of folks that he later raised from the grave?
I bet NOT!!!
Why......because none of it ever happened!!!
Can you explain to me how the bible says jesus was dead for three days, yet if we count it out from friday to sunday, we don't arrive at that number three.
Perhaps the bible writers skipped math class that day, when they covered one-handed addition.
Do you realize that the Romans did NOT crucify thieves in those days, yet there were two of them next to your jesus (each saying words that differ in your bible).
Do you also realize that no one was crucified on the day before the Sabbath...which is saturday, not sunday btw. So how did jesus and the two thieves land up being crucified on a day when it was NEVER done, because the sabbath was the very next day and they wouldn't bury people on the sabbath.
Can you write me a consistent flowing story about his crucifixion and resurrection from the 4 gospels of your bible?
Go ahead and give it try....you'll need more than luck to arrive at just one story about it. One without many contradictions.
Now about your name for god......Jehovah
I think you might want to research where this name comes from.
While you may call him that name, in thinking it's his actual name, you might be surprised that it's not. If your personal god were to exist and you called that name out, he'd never answer you.
(pretty much as he doesn't answer you now..LOL)
Now, when you decide to really look into your god religion and it's origins, then you can come back here preaching your crap to us. In the meantime, you'll find no souls here to add to your collection of 'saved souls'.
Try a fundie website....they will eat up your delusions, just like the opium that your bible's Paul used to see his ghostly jesus.
AtheistToothFairy
You try a psychological approach to prove the Bible false. All you can do is to make an argument and not prove it you also leaves out the sientific approach.
I would say you fail in your supposed intellectual persuit of proving the Bible false. You enjoy theorycrafting and brings little serious evidence into your little debate.
Who said that the Bible isnt true? Even thought it is a truth you dont like, you must face the challenge of proving it wrong.
However as you know you can never prove it wrong or right. Your problem is that you never can free yourself form this dilema only choose a side. For or agianst.
I, Myself, prefer to deal in probability rather than absolutes.
Probability of snakes talking: Very low.
Probability of men spontaneously coming back from the dead: Also rather low.
Probability of a being of superhuman intelligence deliberately creating a torture chamber for people who don't believe in it: Pretty damn low indeed.
Probability of such a being affecting the physical world, yet leaving no detectable traces of its presence: Even lower.
Probability that the actions of two mythical people somehow tainted the rest of humanity with a congenital "crime" called Original Sin: Mind-bogglingly low.
Probability that human sacrifice (which is actually the sacrifice of a god) somehow erases the taint of Original Sin, but only if you say "Yes, human sacrifice is a wonderful thing, and by the way, I'm the scum of the earth, thanks for killing yourself to save me from you" --
-- Ow, My head hurts. And My calculator just exploded.
I may not be able to *prove* that the Bible is false, but... I don't need to. It's so completely unconvincing and morally bankrupt that it might as well be false.
"Unless you can prove that the bible is not true, your claims upon it as beeing an illusion bears no hold.
You try a psychological approach to prove the Bible false. All you can do is to make an argument and not prove it you also leaves out the sientific approach"
--
Anon,
There are many beliefs one can dream up in life, that can't be disproved totally.
Can you prove to me that the tooth fairy doesn't exist?
I say HE DOES......Mainly because he's writing this comment to you...LOL
Can you disprove little green men on mars?
Can you disprove there is no invisible pink elephant in my garage?
How can you be totally sure there is no invisible monster under your bed at night, sucking the life force from you, little by little. Maybe that's the real reason we all age and eventually die.
Besides the fact that the world isn't required to disprove some crazy theory, anyone who has such a crazy theory is the same one who shoulders the responsibility to prove it's true.
If I said I just invented a 'cold fusion' generator, how likely would you be to buy this product from me without my proving it worked first?
So why should any of us 'buy' your bible fantasy story?
Sure, we can't disprove it with 100% certainty, but as I said, it's not really up to us to have to do so, but rather the one who is making the claim to prove it's valid....aka YOU.
A rational mind would normally have a hard time believing in a thing that offers almost zero evidence to support it.
The bible stories being true and having a god-on-earth named jesus, lack almost any evidence outside the bible itself.
The fact that history isn't filled with writings about all these amazing events and people of the bible, surely speaks volumes to a case for it being nothing but fiction.
So what evidence (other than the bible and emotions) is there to make a thinking rational person accept these bible claims for a god, jesus and all those miracles?
Until someone comes along to show us all this missing evidence, why on earth should any of us buy into any mythical story, and if one is prone to do so without evidence, then why don't the vast majority of humans believe in all the Greek gods, roman gods or the loch ness monster and why don't most adults still believe in monsters under their beds?
So no, us ex-xtians do NOT have to disprove the bible, although it sure isn't hard to do at all....at least not to a THINKING human mind.
ATF
This suggestion seems problematic. I would be interested to know, anonymous, how you have proven all the following texts, and dozens more like them, to be "false" (as you claim one must before deciding that a holy text is probably "an illusion"):
Qur'an
Hadith
Tripitaka
Bhagavad-Gita
Alkitab Alaqdas
Adi Granth
Tao-te-Ching
The Poetic Edda
The Akilattirattu Ammanai
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas
Lotus Sutra
Pyrgi Tablets
In Shvetambara
Basava Purana
The Ginza Rba
The Arzhang
The Kojiki
Daozang
fjell
After the first two or three thousand sutras in that particular canon, they'll at least have a good working knowledge of Pali...
Just reading your story I have concluded that you never were a true believer in Christ. You aren't an ex-Christian, you never were one. Once you believe, you don't go back.
I pray you get your life together and stop the "soul searching" and start searching for Christ. The Bible says that the Lord reveals Himself to those who seek Him with all their hearts.
Just reading your story I have concluded that you never were a true believer in Christ. You aren't an ex-Christian, you never were one. Once you believe, you don't go back
--
Well Hi There.. any-mouse,
Of course, we will never hear from you again, as you anon xtians are instructed by jebus to "Hit and Run for cover", lest one would get too exposed to the voices of REASON.
So tell me mouse, where do you get off saying once a person is a xtain, they would never go back?
Your religion is a drug and while getting over a drug addiction is tough, it sure is quite possible to do.
I'll bet you that this site is filled with ex-xtians who know more about your religion than you ever will.
Did you know, once a Muslim, always a Muslim?
We have few ex-Muslims, as they don't live long usually.
Of course, the one's who escaped with their lives, were never 'true' Muslims, right?
Your logic is a solid as a bucket of sand.
I dare you to come back and justify your remarks!!
ATF (Who wonders if they hand out blinders with the blood wine, in churches?)
"I grew up with Nathan and know his whole family. He is simply a p
You people will believe anything ..."
Yup I grew up with Nathon too. First Drugs, Religion now he is just living of the government. I'm sure his Dad came up with this idea. He and his Father have been going from one scam to the next their whole lives. And his upbringing has a lot to do with this. His own father had regular sex with Nathon's 13 year old girlfriend all the way into her 20's.
As far as the girl of his dreams that he divorced. She made him get a vasectomy and soon after he found a jumbo box of condoms in her nightstand because she was screwing another guy.
Stupid condescending webmaster oh yeah of little faith.
Anon Delivers