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encouraging ex-Christians
Personal de-conversion testimonials submitted to ExChristian.Net
sent in by Mark
I am a seminary graduate, so I know all the 'arguements' of these shallow, glassy-eyed hypocrites. I served as a 'lay leader' in a couple of churches for 15 years, often being hurt by those who most demanded that I pander to their spiritual 'needs'. Yet god was nowhere when:
1. My wife dies in my arms with cancer five years ago,
2. My Father endured two decades of ill health, and
3. My Mother died of cancer last month.
If you're a Christian reading this, don't you dare tell me "all thisa happened so you can serve God better", else I shall REALLY get angry!
London
England
Joined at 17
Left at 39
Was: Pentecostal
Now: Angery agnostic/atheist
Converted because: My friends are members of a church youth club
De-converted because: The whole thing was no help when the brown stuff hit the twirly thing
I am a seminary graduate, so I know all the 'arguements' of these shallow, glassy-eyed hypocrites. I served as a 'lay leader' in a couple of churches for 15 years, often being hurt by those who most demanded that I pander to their spiritual 'needs'. Yet god was nowhere when:
1. My wife dies in my arms with cancer five years ago,
2. My Father endured two decades of ill health, and
3. My Mother died of cancer last month.
If you're a Christian reading this, don't you dare tell me "all thisa happened so you can serve God better", else I shall REALLY get angry!
London
England
Joined at 17
Left at 39
Was: Pentecostal
Now: Angery agnostic/atheist
Converted because: My friends are members of a church youth club
De-converted because: The whole thing was no help when the brown stuff hit the twirly thing
The Bible and religion just replaces the, "I don't know." thats all it's for. No one knows how we all got here, and why. It was not meant for us to know. Just live life as you see it, not by what someone else tells you how to live. Your conscious is your God, your God, you are the God of you, not someone elses, we each have our own internal God, it is called me or self, your internal ruler. Best wishes.
Like Jim Earl is saying, the whole "circle of life" concept, is much more meaningful to me. Without death, there could not be life. If the individual trees in a forest didn't die, all the resources would be depleted and the entire forest would perish.
This approach can appeal to a persons common sense, and removes all the "God wants you to suffer" garbage that comes with religion.
I like the yin/yang philisophical approach to it also. What is happiness without sadness? One can't exist without the other. That's why eternal bliss of a heaven would be meaningless, without some sort of suffering to "compare" it to.
What happens when we die? What comes next? Do we live forever? Who knows! There is no way to know in our state of being. In spite of the horrible things we are faced with here, we have an existience with more beauty and wonder than any human will ever need.
Anyway, that is my two cents. Good luck with sorting things out, hope you feel at home here and can find support among your fellow travelers. I know I have.
I was and I've just finished a book that will be available within weeks called, "Why I Rejected Christianity: A Fomer Apologist Explains."
Email me at apacaptianjohn@ juno.com
The bible, of course, is a house of cards that colapses under it's own weight under close examination. The so-called inerrent word of God, is in reality the word of man, changed, rearranged and manipulated over the centuries. The original content of the bible was lost a 1000 years ago, at least, and what is left are the typos, insertions and rewordings of countless scribes. Not much of a foundation for one of the world's great religions, eh? In short, the emperor has no clothes. If the so-called Christians of the world took the time to examine the book and apply some critial thinking, maybe they wouldn't be using it to pound people they don't like into the ground. Ignorance is bliss, they say, and while they can quote chapter and verse, they remain complete ignorant (or in denial) of how the book we have today was created.
Best of luck to you! The bad always balances with the good, and things are bound to turn your way. I hope it's soon!
I am deeply saddened to hear of your pain. I, too, was forced to leave 30+ years of Christianity after I simply couldn't justify anymore the intellectual, emotional, psychological, spiritual, and social problems.
Many of the problems that I perceive with Christianity arose after I myself became a father of children. When they would have nightmares, I would immediately go to them and hold them in my arms. When they are discouraged and lower myself to my knees, look them in the eyes and say (e.g., to my son), "You are my boy, and I am your father. I love you." The "Heavenly Father" of Christianity is no such thing.
I now have my children memorize a little phrase:
"For my Daddy,
so loves ME,
that he would give the world,
to save ME,
if ever I were lost."
I wish I had some surreal, spiritual quip to help you get over your pain. But, alas, I cannot. You have your pain and must find something worthwhile to help you past it.
But I will say this: I feel for you. I asked the same question many times, "Where was God?" I consider myself one who ardently sought for Him, and found nothing.
Hold on man. Find a way, any way, to channel your pain for the ultimate good and happiness of humanity. I can't tell you how: you must find your own path.
All of my love to you, in humanity.
Salvatore
Sorry about the bad news.
As god does not exist. Could that be why,he never told you that your family would never die.
How much did you give to cancer research and the like during your life.
The religious have led us in the wrong direction. They tell us to give to god and he will heal us.God can do miracles. But when you stop and think about it.All god's miracles? are just treatments and never cures. The person healed eventually dies and in most cases a long and painful death.
So what did god give us.Absolutely zero.What can science give us?.Answers and cures.
What an insult it is to man. When god?heals? one man of cancer. While leaving millions of others too die a most painful death. The millions including his own faithful children.
Science and man will deliver to us answers and cures. God by his own confession created evil. So as I see it. He is the author of confusion. Proof of this is easy found within the ranks of the faithful.They all have the the word of god.Yet none of them can agree.
Seems confusing does it not.
So what is the moral of your story mark.?
Love man with all your heart and all your mind.
Give to man that which he should ask of you
Then man will prosper
Then all things will be possible.
Be concerned with today and tomorrow
I'm so sorry and angry at the same time, knowing that it had to take this for you actually know that this being, this thing they call a god was never there and then to witness the hypocrisy and double standards of those repressed Christians.
I too went through the same dilemmas so I know exactly how you feel.
Take care and stick around
You said:
"The thing is, for me, Jesus stands for the beauty that God can equip each and every human being with"
What's so beautiful about making some poor Rabbi think he is God's only son, and then telling him his father needs to have him as a sacrifice? That is BARBARIC AND UGLY!
Only a fool would believe in a god.
Only the fearful will remain religious.All you have is a relationship with words.Your jesus
is slowly dieing and will soon join mithra and his mates.
The christian the muslem the mormon etc all have two things in common.Blind faith fueled with fear and pride, that makes it possible to beleive a lie.And gods magic book (s).
Wake up.Then maybe one day you will say. I am a man.
Does the athiest exist.?How can someone not believe in something that does not exist.Please correct me if I am in error.!!
Also, I just wanted to tell you that I will be praying for you. I know that you don't think it will make a difference, but I hope it does help at least in some small way. Just know, I care, and Im praying for you. Im sry for all the pain you must be going through right now.
Life is suffering. This is the bald truth pronounced by Buddha thousand of years ago. It is not meant to be a pessimistic view of life but a realistic one. Until and unless we move beyond that truth and face life courageously without having to look to any super power out there for help, we will be living in denial essentially and when we do indeed face pain and losses that life throws at us, we are surprised and hurt. But why should we?!! Every single one of us will face the death of loved ones and the loss of things and people we cherish. No one is exempted from this. Not kings, not princes, not powerful people. No riches can bribe death away. Nobody and no god owes us a good life or a life without problems, pain and losses. A lot of us will however do everything and anything to avoid this truth.
You said "The thing is, for me," and this to me is the central issue with which why religeon is fraudulant. To you it is this. To him it is that. To her it is something else. To those over there it is yet another thing. You all look into this book that is to be a guide and each and every one of you come away with a different ideal or understanding of what it is. Even people going to the same church will eventually discover some difference that they have with everyone else there. There is no divine inspiration or understanding because there is no devine entity to provide it.
This is all the proof that I need to know that god did not create mankind. Mankind created god.
I'm pulling for you
The Christians say
I'm praying for you.
Ric
How about pulling your wallet out of your pocket and giving more to cancer research.
Christians
How about Praying your wallet out of your pocket and giving to cancer research.
When I became Christian.Every sunday the pastor would say give to god.So I did.
I put money in the plate.A man came and picked up the plate and gave it to another man.Who then gave it to other men.
Can you please let me know.When god gets his money.Or are you fooling us and god doesn't get the money.Or are you saying that god is man.? Or is the pastor god.?
For all of you who said sorry.So am I.Sorry that you will be sorry when you lose a family member in the future to cancer because you have done nothing about it.
For all? of the readers who have given to research.So as to solve our problems.I say.You have only given a little from the much that you have.
Crykey I'm angry fair dink'm
Even though,I came from a Christian family,these thoughts were on my mind all day.I didn't understand why God took my dad away when we needed him.My mom was also a full time church servant,while my two siblings were still studying full time.Only my older sister & I were working and we didn't make that much.Why would God take his servant when he was serving him?When I heard the news,I was in shock.No tears came out from my eyes.
Later that day,when I saw my dad's body,his face looked at peace (even thought his body was in a bad shape).I guess he wanted to go and see his maker when he was serving God.My dad's passing has touched the lives of people around him.Even though he is sorely missed by my family & I,we know that he is in a better place.Even though, I didn't know why God took him,I know God has a purpose for him.
God did not abandoned my family.He has blessed and provided for my family even though after my dad's passing.Now,both my younger sister and brother are fully sponsored in their studies.My older sister is now blessed with a high paying job.I, on the other hand has been doing well both in part time studies and work.My mom is still serving full time in the women's ministry at our local church and has the support of the church members.We still think of dad everyday,but I have happy thoughts of him.He is smiling down from Heaven,with God of which he wants to be.
I hope to say what I want to say below with humility and without malice.
Question - what make your dad so special, Joslyn, that he should not suffer sudden unexpected death? What make him any different from any of us? Just because he is a pastor of a big church? Just because he ministers to tribal people? Does this make him more special than the rest of us deserving of god's special treatment? Shielded from what the rest of us mortals are subject to?
That is the naivete and may I say, arrogance, of many Christians. Many of you think that just because you do god's work or believe in him, you are afforded special privileges and protection. How self-absorb and selfish can such thinking be?
If eternity (as you are taught over the pulpit) and life forever in god after death is something that you believe in, right into your very bones, why should the sudden death of your dad be such a shock to you? If life after death is infinitely better than life here on earth, why so much fuss when things go wrong in this life? If this life is full of sin and sorrow, why cling on so hard to this life?
Christians' reactions to bad things in life is very telling. It tells that they do not quite believe what they are taught. Most pay only lip service. If shows the greedy side of them - the very best of what life got to offer here (and expecting god to ensure such blessings in life) and an eternity of the same thing after death. And when things do not go their way, they are "shocked". It is all so ironic and saddeningly amusing.
Albert Enstien once said that the assuagement of pain is one of the main driver behind every human endeavours and beliefs. Belief in god is a classic example of humans way of finding a way to assuage pains suffered in this life. Nothing more. Such need to assuage pain does not mean there is a god.
It is time Christians and everybody grow up and face life head on courageously.
Did god really provide for your family after you dad died or did everyone get up off his or her ass and did what he or she had to do to live?
How do we get to look down from heaven and not feel the pain that our death caused our loved ones? I, mean, how can we smile down from heaven yet not feel the anguish rising up? It seems very wrong that we wouldn’t be able to feel that pain. That it could be so cavalierly dismissed. How could we know such joy that heaven is supposed to be if we get any inkling of the suffering that our death left behind?
Religion and Science
from Albert Einstein. The world as I see it
Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with the satisfaction of felt needs and the assuagement of pain. One has to keep this constantly in mind if one wishes to understand spiritual movements and their development. Feeling and desire are the motive forces behind all human endeavour and human creation, in however exalted a guise the latter may present itself to us. Now what are the feelings and needs that have led men to religious thought and belief in the widest sense of the words? A little consideration will suffice to show us that the most varying emotions preside over the birth of religious thought and experience. With primitive man it is above all fear that evokes religious notions--fear of hunger, wild beasts, sickness, death. Since at this stage of existence understanding of causal
connexions is usually poorly developed, the human mind creates for itself more or less analogous beings on whose wills and actions these fearful
happenings depend. One's object now is to secure the favour of these beings by carrying out actions and offering sacrifices which, according to the tradition handed down from generation to generation, propitiate them or make
them well disposed towards a mortal. I am speaking now of the religion of fear...
I'm not only "sorry" for Mark, but I also give 10% of my income to the Children's Miracle Network, which is focused on helping sick children (many with cancer).
and to the einstein discussion, was it not also einstein that said:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Hmmm. If only I could've met "your Jesus" when I was scurrying about trying to find "my Jesus." Boy, 30-some-odd years of searching and, hmmm, nothing.
Would it be too much of a burden for you to provide some evidence for his "reality," "deliverance,"
"miracles," and (raised-eyebrow) "love"?
God seems to give people death every day through torture and starvation, at the hands of humanity or nature, i.e., tsunamis, etc... Oh, that's right, that's what eternal salvation covers... giving humanity a consolation prize when god doesn't show up... it allows many religious zealots to overcome the "why bad things happen to good people" syndrome... Its obvious if a religious person accepts that god works in a persons 'life, then god also works the bad, to include the torture, pain and suffering also... if someone wants to give credit to god, give god "all" the credit... the good, the bad and the ugly...
skiendog: "and to the einstein discussion, was it not also einstein that said:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Science is prompted to answer questions that the superstitious religious pose as fact, without religious "claims" science would be lame... and... the religion without science is blind, is more... as science progressively whittles away the superstitions and false statements, posed by the religious, what remains, becomes more focused and "visible", philosophically... in short, god, to many intelligent people, represents the "unknown", a person or religion is 'blind' if they still adhere to beliefs that science has proven to "not" be attributed to a god...
Problem is, staunch orthodox religionists refuse to accept that written texts, thousands of years old, posing the earth as "flat", with talking donkeys, snakes, etc., are erroneous... as they still worship according to these magical and outdated premises that have been scientifically proven to be false... these believers are the truly blind...
But the fact is, people die. Shit happens. Sometimes life sucks ass so hard your whole world will start to stink.
There's no point being angry at God, he isn't there. If you want to be angry at someone, be angry at the people who misled you when it counted. Be angry at the people who forced you to spend years of your life singing to a brick wall instead of spending time with those you loved.
Be angry at yourself for believing a lie, but God? You may as well be angry at the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the proverbial Invisible Pink Unicorn.
Learn from your mistakes and suck it up. Spend time with those remaining in your life. Don't take empty platitudes from Christian well-wishers at face value.
Learn your lesson and make each new day count from now on.
This is your one chance at life... don't fuck it up.
"I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Though I have asserted above that in truth a legitimate conflict between religion and science cannot exist, I must nevertheless qualify this assertion once again on an essential point, with reference to the actual content of historical religions. This qualification has to do with the concept of God. During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution human fantasy created gods in man's own image, who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate to influence, the phenomenal world. Man sought to alter the disposition of these gods in his own favor by means of magic and prayer. The idea of God in the religions taught at present is a sublimation of that old concept of the gods. Its anthropomorphic character is shown, for instance, by the fact that men appeal to the Divine Being in prayers and plead for the fulfillment of their wishes.
Nobody, certainly, will deny that the idea of the existence of an omnipotent, just, and omnibeneficent personal God is able to accord man solace, help, and guidance; also, by virtue of its simplicity it is accessible to the most undeveloped mind. But, on the other hand, there are decisive weaknesses attached to this idea in itself, which have been painfully felt since the beginning of history. That is, if this being is omnipotent, then every occurrence, including every human action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty Being? In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself. How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him?
The main source of the present-day conflicts between the spheres of religion and of science lies in this concept of a personal God. It is the aim of science to establish general rules which determine the reciprocal connection of objects and events in time and space. For these rules, or laws of nature, absolutely general validity is required--not proven. It is mainly a program, and faith in the possibility of its accomplishment in principle is only founded on partial successes. But hardly anyone could be found who would deny these partial successes and ascribe them to human self-deception. The fact that on the basis of such laws we are able to predict the temporal behavior of phenomena in certain domains with great precision and certainty is deeply embedded in the consciousness of the modern man, even though he may have grasped very little of the contents of those laws. He need only consider that planetary courses within the solar system may be calculated in advance with great exactitude on the basis of a limited number of simple laws. In a similar way, though not with the same precision, it is possible to calculate in advance the mode of operation of an electric motor, a transmission system, or of a wireless apparatus, even when dealing with a novel development."
Quotes copied from Religion and Science by Albert Einstein
I thought for a Christian that context was everything. Let's stick to that ideal.
I lost my "faith" in much of the same way (the beginning of the long and hard journey out of hell, my family are all very strict church-goers). I was eleven years old. My cousin, who was in his 30's, had just married a most beautiful woman and was very in love with her. She had strawberry blonde hair (so do I). Well she got cancer, got fat, was in a wheelchair and was about to die. I prayed real hard that she'd live, I mean I really prayed. She died. I was eleven years old. I lost my "faith". It was weird but that was the moment I knew the Christian base upon which I had been raised was false. So, you're not alone.
I'm not only "sorry" for Mark, but I also give 10% of my income to the Children's Miracle Network, which is focused on helping sick children (many with cancer).
Thanks Salvatore.You most excellent person.We need more like you.Lots more.
There is no such thing as a wealthy good man.
Good to see god is getting his money.Maybe chrisians could do the same.Maybe.
See our you happy you made me. Salvatore.I'm not even going to push you for an extra 1%.There only children after all.
One reason I accept christ as well is the fact that if Im a christian in life, and christianity is wrong, then nothing happens to me what-so-ever except that I was incorrect and that there isn't life after death. But if I don't follow and believe in christ, and he really is real, then what happens to me? I have a lifetime of pain ahead of me after I die.
Sheesh...
Mark, I too am sorry for your losses. But ask yourself this: WHO of us isn’t going to die? Were you ever guaranteed to have great health and ever-lasting life on this earth? If so, please let me know the secret.
I AM a believer – even AFTER these awful things happened to me:
1. Being given away at birth by my natural father who had another woman besides my mother pregnant at the time (he opted to leave my mother and give me away like a piece of garbage, so he could marry the “other woman”).
2. Being a sexually abused baby.
3. Being forcefully removed from my loving foster home by my natural mother (a prostitute and alcoholic who ended up being married 8 times before her death at age 45) because she couldn’t leave Germany for the USA unless all the children she had given away were adopted. I couldn’t get adopted because my foster parents were on welfare.
4. Being sexually abused from age 10 to age 14 on nearly a nightly basis by one of her husbands.
5. My first husband, a drug-addict, killed someone over Heroin and so I ended up divorced by age 21.
6. I’ve been involved in several weird accidents, including a high-speed freeway automobile accident); and all in all I’ve had 20 operations for various things including a total hysterectomy which I suspect was a direct result of the childhood sexual abuse.
After all the things that happened to me, I never once blamed God. That’s because I know that MAN has free will and the choices to either do it HIS way, or Satan’s. Most people choose Satan….
You might have been a seminary student, but I guarantee you, you were NEVER saved – else, no matter what, you could NEVER have left Jesus. NEVER! You weren’t a “Christian” – you were just a pew-warmer!
As a “seminary student”, you would have known that man inherited sin from Adam and Eve and consequently “earthly” ill health and death, etc. Instead, because you’re “angry”, you’re willing to lose YOUR eternal life in heaven by proudly proclaiming there is no God? You’re willing to get comforted by a bunch of atheists or so-called “Ex-Christians” who, like you, were only “luke-warm” and have never had a clue about God?
Shame on you - Snap out of it, repent, and get yourself right with God again!
Yep, you have faith, and ONLY faith.
Dan Barker said it best, "Faith is the acceptance of the truth of a statement in spite of insufficient or contradictory evidence, which has never been consistent with reason. Faith, by its very invocation, is a transparent admission that religious claims cannot stand on their own two feet."
Oh, and when you die, you better hope Allah is not the one TRUE God. He doesn't like it when you pray to that false deity named jesus.
Below is an excerpt from Dan Barker's book.
Pascal's Wager:
"God can't be proved. But if God exists, the believer gains everything (heaven) and the unbeliever loses everything (hell). If God doesn't exist, the believer loses nothing and the unbeliever gains nothing. There is therefore everything to gain and nothing to lose by believing in God."
This argument, first formulated by French philosopher Blaise Pascal, is sheer intimidation. It is not a case for a god's existence: it is an argument for belief, based on irrational fear. With this kind of reasoning we should simply pick the religion with the worst hell.
It is not true that the believer loses nothing. We diminish this life by preferring the myth of an afterlife, and we sacrifice honesty to the maintenance of a lie. Religion demands time, energy and money, draining valuable human resources from the improvement of this world. Religious conformity, a tool of tyrants, is a threat to freedom.
Nor is it true that the unbeliever gains nothing. Rejecting religion can be a positive liberating experience, gaining perspective and freedom of inquiry. Freethinkers have always been in the forefront of social and moral progress.
What kind of person would eternally torment an honest doubter? If their god is so unjust, then theists are in as much danger as atheists. Perhaps god will get a perverted thrill from changing his mind and damning everyone, believers and unbelievers alike. Or, inverting the gamble, perhaps god will only save those who have enough courage not to believe!
Pascal was a Catholic and assumed that the existence of god meant the Christian God. However, the Islamic Allah might be the true god, which turns Pascal's wager into a riskier gamble than intended.
In any case, a belief in a deity based on fear is not a belief that produces admiration. It does not follow that such a being deserves to be worshipped."
http://www.ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=refute
Cheers, and happy winter solstice
Yep, that's the reason you believe in the mythological story...you **fear** your "all-loving" god will torment you with pain for eternity for not kissing his ass.
Cheers
Shame on you, anonymous. You better get yourself right with the "right" god---shame on for not believing in Dionysus, Osiris, Mithra, Horus, etc---all of these gods predated your copycat jesus deity. Your Jesus character is not even original...he is based on myths from prior religious beliefs.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa2.htm
I'm sorry about your past unfortunate circumstances in life, that is truly sad. Just remember, there is no evidence some god(s) has ever intervened in the history of this world.
Unless you can provide evidence of your imaginary big-sky-daddy, that's all s/he/it will be...just an imaginary character...and a horrilbe one too.
Get a clue and educate yourself.
Cheers
In fact, my faith has made my life much more difficult. Jesus calls me to love others, when I really don't want to. Jesus tells me to forgive them when they wrong me, when I really just want to be pissed at them. Jesus calls me to give to the poor and needy, when I would really rather just keep the money and spend it on myself. But, I do the things He tells me to because I really do KNOW Him and I really do love him.
Keith Green put it very well, when he said:
"I can't explain to you really how He did it, but God proved Himself to me in such a holy way, such a complete way, that I would die for that faith and I would die for that belief, because it's more than a belief. He lives in my heart. He lives in my heart."
You want proof? Well, I can't give you proof in the scientific sense, just as you cannot disprove God in any objective way. Ultimately, both belief in God and belief in the absence of God rest upon faith. But, I could recount story after story of little miracles I have PERSONALLY observed. I won't bore you to tears, but I will recount one, as an example.
In college, I was at a conference one weekend. I had a group of people that I prayed with at night in the hotel. Well, we all got together to pray one night and I realized I had forgotten my bible in my room. So, I went to my room to get it. As I was walking back to where my friends were, I passed a girl I knew in the hallway. I said hello and kept going. After I passed her, I heard a voice in my head tell me to ask her to join us (no, I was not attracted to her, so that was not my motivation!). Anyway, I ignored the prompting. I heard it again, though, so I turned and yelled down the hall to her "Hey, we are praying tonight, why don't you come join us." She paused for a moment thinking about it, but finally relented and came. When we got together to pray (there were seven of us in all), another girl in our group was in tears because her cousin had just committed suicide earlier that day and she and her family were distraught. She talked for a long time about what that had done to her and her family. When she finished, the girl I had invited to join our group broke down in tears and opened a notebook she had with her. In it, she had written a suicide letter to her family. After she finished crying, she said that she was intending to commit suicide that night, but was so moved by what had happened with the other girl that she knew she couldn't do that. We prayed for her for a long time that night. I stayed in touch with the girl who was going to commmit suicide and she was genuinely healed that night from many emotional hurts that had built up in her. Coincidence? Maybe. But, I have many more stories very similar to that. Y'all can talk about doubting the existence of God all you want and how only a fool would believe, but I will NEVER doubt the existence of God. I have seen and experienced too much to doubt.
Is my life worse for my faith? Hardly. I have freedom in Christ and I love my life. But, I also will happily face death when the time comes so that I can put a face to the voice of Christ that I have come to know so well. So, whether I am deluded or not, I have no desire to give up my so-called crutch in exchange for the "faith of no-faith."
In the words of Peter, when Jesus asked him if he intended to stop following Him: "Lord, where would we go? Who else has the words of eternal life?"
Peace to all!
Things are happening before your eyes that were predicted in the Bible, and you people are too dense to see it. Too bad, so sad!
This blog is brimming with a bunch of mean-spirited, opinionated people who don't have a clue about God or the Bible (especially the webmaster who couldn't make it past E-7 in the military, and played an instrument "for his country" - gosh, how impressive! A real "He-man".....And now he's drawing a pension paid for by tax-payers who had REAL jobs, all while he's sitting there on his laurels "dissing" His Creator by making childish and stupid comments about God and those who believe in God.)
Judgment Day is coming - whether YOU all believe it, or not....
So, are you a real He-man, or a real she-woman?
So, you believe in a fairy tale...very impressive, He-man! Do you believe in all the other god myths that predated your non-original jesus character?
Listen, little kiddie, you fear your god that's why you ended your statement with the stupid judgement day remark. Millions of people have been saying that for centuries.
You fear your god, like a little kid who fears the bogie monster under the bed. Now run along little kiddie and bury your head in the sand box.
Cheers
so, your bible study group saved a girl from an apparent suicide attempt because your prayers worked. That's great you helped save this girl from an apparent suicide attempt, but it does not prove your god exists. It's purely a coincidence. Religious people like you have been associating events like this ever since people believed in a higher deity.
If you had believed in Allah, you would've believed that Allah is the one True God, but since you were "taught" Christianity, you believe in that particular deity. How many people like you associate this type of reasoning in Muslim countries? Probably a lot, right? Do you think Muslim's have experiences similar to you? Do you think that might be the reason they have such staunch belief in their deity?
I have a task for you. Get together with your prayer group and pray to your god. Ask him to help save those people who kill themselves every day. You would be saving 85-90 people every single day, in the U.S. alone. If your prayers are successful, then there shouldn't be a single death in the U.S. I hope your prayers will work, but I'm 100% certain your prayers will fail. Notice I said prayers and not social group. People help one another in social groups, whether they are religious or not. We are a social animal and we benefit from each other through these social interactions.
There are 3-5 million people in the U.S. who believe they have been abducted by space aliens. Can you disprove this claim? Can you see how outrageous claims requires outrageous proof? You have an outrageous claim by saying you believe in a god. I'm not making any outrageous claim by saying there is no god; I'm simply saying, provide the evidence. Until you provide the evidence I can't believe in your version of god.
Cheers
Ultimately, both belief in UFOs and belief in the absence of UFOs rest upon faith.
Ultimately, both belief in Zeus and belief in the absence of Zeus rest upon faith.
Ultimately, both belief in Allah and belief in the absence of Allah rest upon faith.
So, when I see a raggedy homeless man, smelling of whiskey and filth, standing on the corner and shouting that he is John the Baptist come back from the dead, I should keep in mind that both belief in this man and absence of belief in this man rest upon faith?
Rhetorical question for nonex...: Aren't there some basic rules of evidence in law, or do those just get thrown out the window when it comes to religion?
SPIRITISM, A NEW ERA FOR HUMANITY
GOD,
THE SUPREME INTELLIGENCE,
FIRST CAUSE OF ALL THINGS
JESUS,
OUR GUIDE AND MODEL
KARDEC,
THE FUNDAMENTAL BASE
- THE SPIRITS' BOOK
- THE MEDIUMS' BOOK
- THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO SPIRITISM
- HEAVEN AND HELL
- THE GENESIS
"WITHOUT CHARITY THERE IS NO SALVATION"
Charity: benevolence for every one, indulgence for the
imperfections of others, forgiveness of injuries. (SB, 886)
International Spiritist Council
THE SPIRITIST DOCTRINE or SPIRITISM
What it is
It is the set of laws and principles, as revealed by the Superior Spirits, contained in the works of Allan Kardec, which constitute the Spiritist Codification: The Spirits' Book, The Mediums' Book, The Gospel According to Spiritism, Heaven and Hell, and The Genesis.
"Spiritism is a science which deals with the nature, origin and destiny of Spirits, as well as their relationship with the corporeal world."
Allan Kardec (Taken from Qu'est-ce que le Spiritisme? - Préambule)
Translated from the original French
"Spiritism realises what Jesus said of the promised Consoler, by bringing knowledge of those things which allow Man to know where he came from, where he is going and why he is on Earth; so attracting mankind towards the true principles of God's law and offering consolation through faith and hope."
Allan Kardec (Taken from The Gospel According to Spiritism - Chap. 6 - Item 4)
Translated from the original French
What it reveals
It reveals new and more profound concepts with respect to God, the Universe, the Human Being, the Spirits and the Laws which govern life itself.
Furthermore, it reveals what we are; where we have come from; where we are going; what is the objective of our existence; and what is the reason for pain and suffering.
What it comprises
By bringing new concepts about the Human Being and everything that surrounds it, Spiritism touches on all areas of knowledge, human activities and behaviour, thus opening a new era for the regeneration of Humanity.
Spiritism can and should be studied, analyzed, and practiced in all the fundamental aspects of life, such as: scientific, philosophical, religious, ethical, moral, educational, and social.
What it teaches
God is the Supreme Intelligence, first cause of all things. God is eternal, immutable, immaterial, unique, omnipotent, supremely just and good.
The Universe is God's creation. It encompasses all rational and non-rational beings, both animate and inanimate, material and immaterial.
In addition to the corporeal world inhabited by incarnate Spirits, which are human beings, there exists the spiritual world, inhabited by discarnate Spirits.
Within the Universe there are other inhabited worlds, with beings at different degrees of evolution: some equal, others more or less evolved than earthly Man.
All the Laws of Nature are Divine Laws because God is their author. They cover both the physical and moral laws.
A Human Being is a Spirit incarnated in a material body. The perispirit is the semi-material body which unites the Spirit to the physical body.
Spirits are the intelligent beings of creation. They constitute the world of the Spirits, which pre-exists and outlives everything.
Spirits are created simple and ignorant. They evolve intellectually and morally, passing from a lower order to a higher one, until they attain perfection, where they will enjoy unalterable bliss.
Spirits preserve their individuality before, during, and after each incarnation.
Spirits reincarnate as many times as is necessary for their spiritual advancement.
Spirits are always progressing. In their multiple physical existences, they may sometimes become stationary but they never regress. The speed of their intellectual and moral progress depends on the efforts they make to attain perfection.
Spirits belong to different orders according to the degree of perfection they have attained: Pure Spirits, who have attained maximum perfection; Good Spirits, whose predominant desire is towards goodness; and Imperfect Spirits, characterized by their ignorance, their tendency towards evil, and by their inferior passions.
The Spirits' relations with Human Beings are constant and have always existed. The Good Spirits attract us towards goodness, sustain us in life's trials, and help us bear them with courage and resignation. The Imperfect Spirits induce us towards error.
Jesus is the Guide and Model for all Humankind. The Doctrine He taught and exemplified is the purest expression of God's Law.
The morality of Christ, as contained in the Gospels, is the guidence for the secure progress of all Human Beings. Its practice is the solution for all human problems and the objective to be attained by Humankind.
Human Beings are given free-will to act, but they must answer for the consequences of their actions.
Future life reserves for Human Beings penalties and pleasures according to the respect they do or do not show for God's laws.
Prayer is an act of adoration for God. It is found in the natural law and is the result of an innate sentiment in every Human Being, just as the idea of the existence of the Creator is innate.
Prayer makes Human Beings better. Whoever prays with fervour and confidence grows stronger against evil temptations, and God sends the Good Spirits to assist them. This assistance will never be denied when requested with sincerity.
--- o ---
SPIRITIST PRACTICE
All Spiritist practice is gratuitous, following the orientation of the moral principle found in the Gospel: "Give for free what you receive for free."
Spiritism is practiced with simplicity, without any external forms of worship, within the Christian principle that God should be worshipped in spirit and in truth.
Spiritism has no clergy, nor does it adopt or use at any of its meetings or during its practices the following: altars, images, candles, processions, sacraments, concession of indulgences, religious vestiments, alcoholic or hallucinogenic beverages, incense, tobacco, talismans, amulets, horoscopes, cartomancy, pyramids, crystals, or any other objects, rituals or external forms of worship.
Spiritism does not impose its principles. It invites those interested in knowing it to submit its teachings to the test of reason before accepting them.
Mediumship, which allows the Spirits to communicate with Human Beings, is a faculty which many individuals bring with them at birth, independent of whatever religion or beliefs they may come to adopt.
Spiritist mediumship practice is solely that which is exercised based on the principles of the Spiritist Doctrine and within the Christian moral concepts.
Spiritism respects all religions and doctrines; values all efforts towards the practice of goodness; works towards peace and fellowship between all nations and all peoples, regardless of race, colour, nationality, creed, cultural or social standing. It also recognizes that "the truly good person is one who complies with the laws of justice, love, and charity in their highest degree of purity." (The Gospel According to Spiritism – chapter 17 – item 3)
--- o ---
"To be born, to die, to be reborn yet again, and
constantly progress, that is the Law."
--- o ---
"Unshakable faith is only that which can meet reason
face to face in every Human epoch."
--- o ---
The study of the works of Allan Kardec is fundamental
for the correct knowledge of the Spiritist Doctrine
--- o ---
CAMPAIGN FOR THE DISSEMINATION OF SPIRITISM
International Spiritist Council -
Home page: http://www.spiritist.org/
E-mail: spiritist@spiritist.org
Tel: 55.61.322-3024 - Fax:55.61.321-8760
SGAN - Q. 603 - Cj. F - Brasília - DF - Brasil - Cep: 70830-030
Get To Know
SPIRITISM, A NEW ERA FOR HUMANITY
(deleted a bunch of worthless stuff)
E-mail: spiritist@spiritist.org
Tel: 55.61.322-3024 - Fax:55.61.321-8760
Way cool! Email, voice phone and FAX numbers to spread over the internet for fun and games.
I didn't read all the religious cult information in your post sorry.
Onanite
MY RESPONSE: None of your business. All you need to know, you smart-alecky rubber-neck, is that I’m someone who served my country for 22 years, performing a REAL job instead of “playing an instrument” such as our illustrious webmaster who faked his way through the military having fun, while others were laying their lives on the line. I’m someone who, once I became a believer (unlike the illustrious webmaster of this disgusting site) I REMAINED a believer, and am not wasting my life and giving in to Satan’s wishes by stabbing my Creator in the back. Judgment Day IS coming, yes, even for Dave - I would venture to say ESPECIALLY for people like Dave who claim to have knowledge of God and the Bible, and then dare to provide a website like this which helps to lead the throngs even further astray. I’ve read the things Dave has posted, and it is painfully obvious that he NEVER was a believer in Christ; he was nothing but a pew-warmer, going through the motions.
PASSERBY RESPONDED: So, you believe in a fairy tale...very impressive, He-man! Do you believe in all the other god myths that predated your non-original jesus character?
MY RESPONSE: So, YOU believe in nothing but yourself. Very impressive. You better hope you don’t get run over by a car or suffer a heart attack anytime soon, because you will end up talking out of the other side of your big mouth on the day your stand before your Creator!
PASSERBY RESPONDED: Listen, little kiddie, you fear your god that's why you ended your statement with the stupid judgement day remark. Millions of people have been saying that for centuries.
MY RESPONSE: If anybody’s the “little kiddie” around here, it’s you! Everything you’ve posted in this entire thread alludes to that fact, because you are nothing but a loud-mouthed jerk spouting off about things you know NOTHING about.
“Millions of people” have been saying that Judgment Day is coming because it’s TRUE! Look at the Middle East happenings; look at the natural disasters that have been of Biblical proportions! Us “Bible thumpers” have been trying to show you atheists the Truth since practically forever, and you just keep on rejecting it with the free will GOD gave you. Yes, there certainly are kooks among believers – and those are the ones you guys have decided are the spokesmen for the rest of us. Truth is, MOST church-goers haven’t got a clue, themselves, but like YOU, they feel the need to spout off about things they know nothing about. The result is, it’s a no-win situation for BOTH sides!
Methinks you have “the end of the world” messages confused with “Judgment Day”. The Bible prophecies all have to play out BEFORE “the end” because God has a certain order (which you can only know IF you’ve read the Bible in context). We ARE in the last quarter of the eleventh hour. But, people such as yourself are blinded to the Truth, and therefore, are unwittingly catering to Satan by writhing and slithering anonymously through the Internet - fat, dumb, and happy - trying your best to lead the world astray with your asinine opinions and nonexistent “knowledge” of the Bible. You’re no better than the “religious throngs” who pretend to be pious, and are used by Satan to make God look like a ridiculous myth.
PASSERBY RESPONDED: You fear your god, like a little kid who fears the bogie monster under the bed. Now run along little kiddie and bury your head in the sand box.
MY RESPONSE: You bet! And if you had half a brain, you would, too! There’s nothing “little kiddish” about that. I suggest you lay aside your childish raw hatred of yourself and the world and, unlike the illustrious hate-mongering webmaster, DO something with your life instead of hanging out in chatrooms like this to shout nonsensical junk to a world that’s headed for hell in a hand-basket. I promise you, God is going to demand an explanation for YOUR part in this! And you won’t like His answer!
You’re the one with his head in the sandbox.
As the the "Spiritists" - you people might as well be Satanists....
So, you believe in Satan too...very impressive, He-Man! Did you know your God created him...that is, if you believe your god created everything? If your god created Satan, then he is a very sick bastard. Of course Isaiah 45:7 states, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do all these things." Nice God you worship here!!!
I'm sorry you believe in such childish fantasies. Do you also believe that animals can talk and a bush spoke human language? You actually believe a human lived in a whale for three days? Can't you see these are just stories in a book...it is mythology. These are childish stories.
You didn't answer my question, why don't you believe in all the god myths that predated your non-original Jesus character? Christianity is just another religion that evolved from primeval religous beliefs.
Have you ever thought about why *you* believe what you believe. Religious beliefs are mainly determined by space and time. If you were born in the U.S. before many Christians slaughtered most of the indigenous indians, who were the True fathers of this land, then you would be praising Father sky and Mother earth. If you were born in the middle east, then you would most likely be a Muslim. So, why did you happen to believe in this particular fairy tale?
Oh, and btw. Why do you cut down somebody's occupation? Oh, I know, you picked up your bad behavior from your imaginary friend who lives ONLY in a book and in YOUR mind. There are 3-5 million(yes million!) people in the U.S. alone who believe they were abducted by space aliens. These people are certain space aliens are real...it seems like many people can't distinguish between what is REAL and what is fantasy.
anonymous said: "So, YOU believe in nothing but yourself. Very impressive. You better hope you don’t get run over by a car or suffer a heart attack anytime soon, because you will end up talking out of the other side of your big mouth on the day your stand before your Creator!"
Yes, I believe in myself now. You should be impressed. I don't have this codependance on an imaginary being any more. I'm not like a child anymore who needs a security blanket. You need the Jesus security blanket like a drug addict needs his fix.
One meaning of codependence; noun:
Of or relating to a relationship in which one person is psychologically dependent in an unhealthy way on someone who is addicted to a drug or self-destructive behavior, such as chronic gambling.
What if Allah is the one True God. I hope you don't die, because Allah doesn't like it when people pray to Jesus. What if the Raelian's are right. They believe UFO's brought intellignet life to earth. Did you know All religions have their own version of a creation story, and of course, Christianity, being the copycat religion that it is, adopted much of these primeval myths.
Anonymous said: "“Millions of people” have been saying that Judgment Day is coming because it’s TRUE!"
Like I said, I'm sorry you believe in mythology. You believe in judgement day because you READ IT in a book...that's all. There will always be calamity in this world. We live in a dynamic and changing world, where earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornado are natually occurring phenomenoms. Or do you believe your dumbass god is responsible for creating all these things too?
I don't think you have the capability do do honest research, especially since you recognize the fact that you are a scared child right now. Hopefully, you will read about world religions someday and how Christianity is based on these primeval myths.
Have a great Winter Solstice...one of the original meanings of Dec 25th---that Christianity stole!
Cheers
Wowee.
In case you are sincere, "Anonymous," I confess, I did make my living as a musician for about 20 years and now I'm making my living using my abilities in writing, photography and PR.
I also confess that both of these unrelated occupations have been fun - great fun.
Now, what does any of this have to do with exercising my 1st Amendment right of expression? That's all this website is you know, the use of 1st Amendment freedoms, the kind of freedoms you and I both served (in our own ways) to defend.
Do you campaign in this same nasty manner against porn sites, or sites that condemn your chosen political positions, or against non-Christian religious sites? I hope not - let freedom ring - the book burning days of Christianity are over, right?
What about the library? Do you get this mad when you go to a bookstore? There are numerous books in both libraries and bookstores saying the same things as are being expressed on this "disgusting" little site.
Chill out dude, you'll give yourself an aneurysm.
If you are a seminary graduate and was a lay leader for fifteen years, then I question the competency of the school you attended and the churches also It was eiher that or your inability to comprehend what was being taught and put it into effect in your life. I wonder how committed you were to God and His Word when "the brown stuff hit the twirly thing", sometimes called trials and tribulations.
If you were/are truly a son of God (I hesitate to use the term "Christian", because a lot of wrong has been done in the name of Christianity) you would not have sought solace on this site among people that are more ignorant than you. (Read these verses about being a son of God, not The Son of God but a son of God. Take time to read a few verses before and after them to get things in context. Romans 8:14,19: Galatians 3:26; 4:5-7: Ephesians 5:1-12: Hebrews 12:1-17: and Revelations 21:1-8).
Kevin Smith, John W. Loftus, 4 Anonymouses, Salvatore, Forever and ever, south2003, Dana, Jim Lee, Just Rick, Shannon, Jose, passerby, galvis, Onanita, beanheel,especially webmaster are some of the people that commented on your article. I can tell by their comments that they haven't a clue about life and/or death as God explains it in the Bible. I also read some of their comments on other articles and it only confirmed my conclusion aboout them. I can tell by their comments that they have never really read the Bible let alone study it. By the way, my use of the word "ignorant" is not meant to be derogatory but only as a lack of knowledge and understanding.
They read Einstein and other agnostics and atheists and scholars who themselves misundersstand the Word Of God.
These so-called learned people make comments that are based on what they think the Bible says. They take one verse or passage of scripture and expound on it like the understand it. They don't. They do not search out the truth for the sake of the truth, they search out the Word of God for the sake of their own egos to be able to bring some "new and better learning" to the Word of God. In so doing they lead you and others astray.
It amazes me how some of you if not all of you claim to be ex-Christians and your comments show such a lack of knowledge and understanding. You all need to really read and really study the Bible for yourselves. Let the Bible explain itself. Let the so-called experts and scholars alone until you get your own understanding and then read what they have to say and compare it to what you then know from your own Bible sudy. Those that called themselves Christians this goes for you also, because your comments were off target also.
And Mark to answer your original question "Where was God when you needed Him most?", He was right there. Your problem was that you did not know how to take advantasge of what God had to offer or you did not want what God had to offer. I"m not going to elaborate on that right now, you just thinlk about it.
It Is I
Please advise what translation we should read from.
Is your jesus the saviour of the world.
or
Will your jesus save us.?
or
Will your jesus torment us forever and ever.
or
Will your jesus torment us for this age and the age to come.
or
Will your jesus just destroy us.
Please advise
Revelations 21:1-8
Jesus is not God as he has a beginning and an end.
Ephesians 5:1-12
Be imitators of god. Ok
Who do we have to kill and how many virgins do we get to keep
Fairdink'm itiseye.Every christian that comes here says the same thing.
You do not know the scriptures.I do You don;t so there.
I;d say that your a JW for sure.
ID yourself so you can become yet another sacrific for us another lamb for the slaughter.
I do not have faith in jesus.So how can I be YOUR gods son.?
So that you know you are wasting your time and mine. Read
Hebrews 6:4+ For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame.
Did we confess that Jesus Christ is Lord did we bend the knee Did we
believe that he was raise from the dead Did we confess that Jesus is THE Lord.YES WE DID>!!!!!!!!
Tell Lucifer I mean jesus He blew it big time.No longer will we believe a lie.No longer will we fear him.Send your imaginary friend to do battle here.All of his previous puppets have failed.Now we add you to the list.
What personality type would require to be worshiped. Needing to be continually told how great he is.How good he is.How much we love him.
Check this out and it will put you on the road to find out.
Are you sure your saved.????
It's the Thought That Counts
By: Hara Estroff Marano
Summary: An expert answers key question about the dangers of overthinking.
Find a therapist
near you. itiseye
Enter your City or Zip:
Overthinking can wreck our emotional health, says Susan Nolen-Hoeksema, Ph.D., on the basis of her studies over the past decade. A professor of psychology at the University of Michigan, she provides answers to some common questions:
Do men ruminate too?
Women do it more than men, but that doesn't mean that men don't do it at all. And it takes on a different character. Our research suggests that men are more likely to ruminate about anger and angry situations, and it comes out as angry, grudge-bearing self-righteousness.
Women tend to focus much more on depressive and anxious themes: "What's wrong with me that this person doesn't like me? What did I do wrong?" And they focus on whether they can control something in the future, particularly with regard to relationships. "How can I keep my husband interested in me? How can I make sure that everybody likes me?"
How do you explain those differences?
We know that from a very early age girls are much more relationship-oriented than boys are. It's socialized into us; it may even be programmed into us evolutionarily. Relationships are great fuel for rumination because interactions with others are always ambiguous; you never know exactly what the other person means or whether they're being sincere. Investing too much of your self-worth in the approval of others provides an unstable source of self-esteem. That's one major contributor to women's tendency to ruminate more.
How does one develop into a ruminator? Do we learn it?
It can be socialized into people or we can be inclined to it by biological temperament. If you are encouraged to pay attention to your emotions and also given the message that there's not much you can do about them, that contributes to being a ruminator. Boys are encouraged to do something about the situations that make them upset, girls are encouraged more to just think about the situations that make them upset. If biological temperament inclines you to be easily upset, that quite naturally leads to questions about "what's wrong with me?" If on top of that you are not socialized to handle distressed feelings actively, then the two can strongly contribute to rumination.
How does that get set into the brain?
Research suggests that there are connections between nodes of the brain. Different memories and thoughts are connected by virtue of sharing an emotion, so that negative thoughts are connected with each other even when they have little to do with each other. Your boss yells at you-and you think about how fat you are. What connects them is unhappiness.
When you ruminate, you rehearse the connections between such thoughts and strengthen them, creating a spreading network whereby a whole complex of distressing thoughts becomes more easily aroused by just a little bit of negative mood. So the next time you're upset not only do you think about your boss yelling at you and being fat but about how your mother treated your brother better than she treated you.
What effect does rumination have on relationships?
It undermines them in a couple of ways. Ruminators seek out other people for reassurance but they confront others constantly: "You don't love me, you don't care about me, what did you mean wh