.: posted 3/30/2008 ::: by webmdave :::   

 freethinker05 wrote:

Hi there Snabag, sounds to me like you really love your little woman thataway. I don't think my wife really believes, but when we discuss religion, we get into one hellofa cussing match, but I still love my little, oops..(taller than me, with a longer arm span), woman.
Anyway, as long as she don't preach to you, i'd just not even bring up religion to her. Thats just my opinion. Tell the grandkids hi for me. Peace, Roger...A/A

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 AtheistToothFairy wrote:

Snabag,

Sounds like you and I are in the same boat in life, as my wife is also determined to not have her faith challenged by logic and reason etc..

Most of our 'god conversations' are quite one-sided. That is to say, I do lots of talking and get back some fairly standard pat xtian replies in return.
Somewhere here on this site, I even posted a list of 10 things she is likely to say in this regard.

In her mind, there MUST be a god, and just because she doesn't have the answers to my frequent questions, doesn't mean that god himself doesn't have those answers.
She will tell me that I can ask god myself, when I meet him one day (rolling eyes).

Xtians as a rule, don't give a hoot about evidence for their god, as it's all about BLIND FAITH for them.
Take away their god belief and they would find themselves lost in life.
God gives them a purpose in life so without that god, they can't see what purpose their lives have.

You and I will probably never be able to show them using reason, that their god is a myth, created by men with an agenda and promoted through the generations by superstitious minds.
The other problem for those who have a partner who are more the fundie type, is that any reasoning you use, will be seen as coming directly from the devil himself, and of course, will be not only ignored, but seen as something evil to run away from.

A god belief is most certainly self-preserving, as the believers and their scripture have accounted for many types of 'attacks' that would expose it's underlying fallacies.

I myself have tried various angles with my wife to show her that her god beliefs are erroneous.
My latest attempt will be on the subject of why sick xtian children who are prayed-over, are ignored by this xtian god being.
Worse, we have two news items of recent on this website, where the parents refused to render medical care to their child and god knowing this fact, let them die anyway.
Of course, I'm sure I'll hear the usual excuse about god needed them in heaven or that god works in mysterious ways and we can't know his mind.

Frankly, I think the top two reasons why xtians hang onto their faith with such gusto, is because of FEAR.
They fear not having an afterlife and can't accept that they will just travel into non-existence upon death.
They also fear that hell might be real, so they play it safe. See Pascals Wager.

You need to discover what is driving your wife's faith in order to begin to challenge it.
Is it this fear I just spoke of, or is it more because she was so totally brainwashed as a young child, that it's too engrained, deep in her mind, to ever be 'erased' from memory.


Best of luck,
ATF (Who thinks a few others here in similar situations, will be chiming in soon to)

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 Stephen_Richard_Webb wrote:

Hi. My father, whom I live with, is a fundy - so I know exactly what you are talking about. In fact my father has even said an exact variation of your post title [The Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it.] When we argue he continually reminds me that "I just don't beleive the King James bible" [which is the kinder way of saying - your going to hell heathon!] I always have to remind him of some key points concerning bible doctrine, the psychology of belief, science, yada yada yada...one point that I love to site is the following passage: "The son shall not bare the iniquity of the father" -Ezekiel 20:5
I have to remind him that since he beleives that Adam is the "father" of mankinds sinful nature, that we should not have to bare his iniquity...says so in the bible I proclaim to him, and of course he says "you're taking it outa context." yada, yada, yada

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 clair wrote:

Hi all. I must agree with freethinker on this, this is not something to discuss with her, if she brings it up then be gentle and kind to her, but honest with the idea of agree to disagree. Vent elsewhere. This does not mean creating another set of problems, just have someone to rant to when you feel on the verge of a coronary event. This site is great for that.

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 clair wrote:

The VENTING not the heart attack. Although certain fundies can raise the bloood pressure quite a bit at times..

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 buffettphan wrote:

Hi Snabag,

I guess I really don't have any new advice for you....just some encouraging words maybe. You are not alone. I think there are quite a few of us here whose spouses are still being deceived and brainwashed by the sick xtian cult. I'm guessing we're about the same age since you have grandchildren and so do I. I too am married to a buybull fundie. Back in 1973, we were both non-practicing catholics--basically agnostics. A dozen or so years and two kids later, some of his co-workers convinced him that their gawd was The One and if he didn't convert pronto, he was going straight to hell. Of course, being a former catholic, I was immediately suspect. I can't tell you how many times I've been accused of "being of the devil." And that was even before I started becoming more vocal about the complete lack of evidence for a belief in this skydaddy! His attitude sounds like your wife's -- "God Said It. I Believe It. End of Story." It is most frustrating to live with someone who uses no logic. Some days, when I am feeling particulary feisty, I'll argue with him til I'm blue in the face. Other days, I just say "Screw it, he'll never stop believing the way he does. He is just waaaay too comfortable believing the BS". Most days now, I'm just happy to enjoy life as it is...grown kids, grandkids, decent job, good music, a nice cool adult beverage at sunset, and a few good friends (some of whom I can vent to/with as necessary--VERY IMPORTANT as Clair said). Most importantly, I'm true to myself and therefore content within myself. I can't change him -- he has to be the one willing to open his eyes. (I am happy to provide opportunities though!) In the meantime, I've learned to enjoy the time I have alone with him gone to all his churchy meetings, preachings, and other assorted brainwashing sessions. In fact, I usually look forward to it. .....Now if he would just stop wasting all that money promoting the BS...........

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 Me wrote:

I was that wife five years ago.

The arguments with agnostic, scientist husband have left a scar on me that will not leave.

But I changed my beliefs on my own through reading and learning what was denied during my fundy chilhood, early 20's.

I'm not saying she'll change, just saying it does happen. I would have never guessed it, but once the truth sinks in - why would I want to go back?

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 buffettphan wrote:

me,

Thank you for posting. You've given me, and I'm sure others too, a bit of encouragement. I do hope your scars hurt less with time.

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 skep wrote:

hi snabag
yep, i got the same problem. i am an atheist and my wife, despite the fact she never goes to church, still "believes in jeebus"

skep

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 logicthinker wrote:

When my wife and I were married 4 yrs ago, we were "not religious" at all. Then, due to our work schedule, we started to home school our daughter, where my wife met many people "of faith". Well they sucked her in and she has now been a fundamentalist for 3 years, and I have confirmed my atheism through the research that I have done since. We try not to talk about it, but it does come up, and we both vehemently disagree, especially with regards to what our daughter is taught. I'm trying to teach her to be a critical thinker, without saying out right that the bible is bullshit.
My wife does do a pretty good job of keeping it away from me, and I do a pretty good job of trying to respect her beliefs as well, but I gotta admit, it's really tough sometimes.
The other night we were watching TV and there was a story about this brotherhood of monks who were beaten and robbed on several occasions -- of course I said they hadn't prayed enough; apparently that was a time that I should have kept my mouth shut.
It's good to hear from others who are in the same position -- I do love her and our daughter dearly, and don't want to leave them, I just hope that they eventually leave the fold.
Thanks for listening.

posted: March 30, 2008 EST  

 Telmi wrote:

Snabag,

As you can see, some of us here are in a position not much different from yours.

It is difficult or near impossible to introduce reason or logic into a discussion with someone whose beliefs are not based on reason or logic. What you can do is to merely point out the inconsistencies or contradictions in their beliefs,if they are willing to listen and if the occasion is right.

Religious discussions can be sticky and can lead to problems one would not expect.

posted: March 31, 2008 EST  

 Apostate_called_Jimmy wrote:

Like Stephen Richard Webb, I too live with a fundy father. He's an arrogant stubborn jackass who thinks he know's better than everyone and that includes experts. Don't get me wrong, I love the man and I would take a bullet for him but sometimes he makes me so furious I want to PUT a bullet in him. Arguing with a person who believes that everything written in the bible is literally true gets you no where and about the only thing it accomplishes is getting the both of you pissed off. The last time I tried arguing with my father it ended up in a fist fight. I used to call him on his bullshit but now whenever he goes off on one of his self-righteous, ignorant, know-it-all tangents, I just let him have his moment. Like clair said, it's best to vent elsewhere.

posted: March 31, 2008 EST  

 Lance wrote:

Thanks for bringing this up.

I too an in the same boat - She's a believer, but I'm not. I do love my wife. She is a good person and I think life would suck without her. We have three kids (7, 10 and 12), and she does a great job with them.

However, since I lost all my belief in god and jesus she has been slowly pulling away. I'm fine with her believing in whatever she wants, but the feeling is not mutual. She is feeling despair at being married to someone that does not have the same imaginary friend. Although I would never put it in those words for her.

I also feel that the people in the church will not give her any encouragement to stick it out with me, even though they supposedly hate divorce. Just today in Church (Yes, I still go with her and the kids some days), they spoke about improving your marriage. It was mostly nice stuff like communication, going on dates, being kind, etc., but then they threw in this little tidbit: "Having God at the center of your marriage, and at the center of each of your lives is non-negotiable." They mentioned the term "non-negotiable" several times for emphasis. That threw a bit of cold water on my hopes. Today's preacher knows I am no longer a believer, so I'm going to ask her what exactly she meant by that. I'm curious to see what she says.

One last thing; during the worship/singing part of the service I looked over and saw my wife with her eyes closed singing to Jesus and having her own little religious moment - if you know what I mean. That kind of summed up the difference between our modes of thinking. She is on the non-thinking emotional plane, while I am on rational search for truth. She has even said that for her the truth of it is wrapped up in the emotional and relational aspects of her faith. She has no time to think about the veracity of Christianity and the contradictions and general crap in the bible.

I have no hope that she will ever reject Christianity based on reason, but I still have a tiny bit of hope that she will not end up rejecting me because of it.

But even if she decides to go, then I won't stop her. I simply can't make myself believe in that baloney any more, even if I tried.

I know what I said may not be very encouraging, but I figure you would just as soon hear the truth about what another non-believer is going through.

Good luck,

-Lance

posted: March 31, 2008 EST  

 Lance wrote:

I don't know why my post showed up twice. Sorry about that.

So can anyone tell me how I can remove one of those posts?

Thanks,

-Lance

posted: March 31, 2008 EST  

 Astreja wrote:

Lance, when you're logged in you can delete the contents of any of your own posts. Look at the bottom of the post you want to clobber; I think there's a little garbage can icon.

posted: March 31, 2008 EST  

 Hells Bells wrote:

Oh Lance, I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles. Changes of any kind are always difficult to deal with - a phenominal number of marriages break up over illness for example.

I've had the "when I married you you were..." talk a few times. But we've managed, somehow, to keep the communication channels open. That has enabled my partner to accept that not all is well with church - and she started that process herself rather than me pushing her to do so, but it was triggered by how the church treated me. But there have been times when I've wondered what we would have together if she kept going to church and I detested the place.

All I can encourage you to do, however painful, is to communicate - and that means, primarily, to listen to each other. When you feel the self-defense mechanisms kick in ("but I had to...") then take conscious steps back. It is very hard to do.

posted: March 31, 2008 EST  

 billybee wrote:

Some people search for truth and some people don't.

It's just not part of their personality.

you be you and I'll be me.

posted: March 31, 2008 EST  

 jimearl wrote:

Whenever I hear the "God said it speal, I offer my own:

God said it, but I didn't hear it, so nothing is settled.

I am amazed that so many of my fellow posters are in the same boat with me. We should start a he-man god-haters club or something.

I have my own problems with a b.s. believing spouse. So I won't pretend I can help you with yours. I have seen that in a situation like this, the children have a better than average chance of growing up able to think for themselves. The spouse may or may not ever make the transition. It still bothers me deeply that my spouse won't listen to what I have to offer, but will go to church and gladly accept any new bullshyt offered by the church. Go figure...

posted: March 31, 2008 EST  

 riley_jensen wrote:

Everyone,

My wife is pretty relaxed with her religion right now. She lets me be me (athiest). I am a bit passionate when I talk against religion because I know three religions very well. I grew up Mormon with the other half of the family being JW. I was disowned by both for becoming born again xtian. That lasted 13 years.

Now that I have been an athiest for 5 years, I am just starting to try to slow down with the anger passion.

The crazy thing is my wife of over 2 years is JW. She seemed like a non-believer before marriage.

Enter her mother: Mother has brought her back from the dead in some respects. But my mother in law is 30 years strong in the JW faith. I have been reading more for the last year to show her errors, but that is hopless. I do it to shut her up, but my issue now is her need to push her religion on my kids. How do I deal with that when she is with them a lot of the time? I never wanted to push athiesm on my kids, but let them make their own decision as adults, but I not sure that can be done. If I don't raise my kids, someone else will. I guess choice is an illusion.

You all know how it goes, but how do I deal with raising my kids to be diverse and think logical.

I feel like I can't stay around and be married in that situation.

posted: March 31, 2008 EST  

 sconnor wrote:

"GOD SAID IT; I BELIEVE IT; END OF STORY".

Does she have god on video, saying it?

Maybe god is on You Tube, saying it; maybe God Tube?

Does she have a place where she meets god, the library, the church, coffee shop, where god says it?

Could I meet god so he can say it to me too?

Until then, god hasn't said shit;
MEN SAY IT, under the guise of god's supposed voice, to lend credibility, where there is none.

If god wants to make his message abundantly clear, relevant and concise, he knows where to find me.

--S.

posted: April 01, 2008 EST  

 Joann wrote:

I'm struggling with getting my viewpoints across to other Christians, too, and I also disagree with the Bible's inerrency. People who don't listen to reason are simply blind to reality. They don't seem to care about other people's viewpoints unless someone says something that these Christians can agree on. What you are dealing with isn't love, at least not the unconditional kind, anyway. Anyone who disagrees with you and makes fun of your viewpoints (or condemns you for not thinking like them) isn't loving you at all. They are simply trying to control you and make you into something you're not. If God loves us all just the way we are, and He doesn't want us to be something we're not, then I don't understand these Christians who don't like our own viewpoints.

posted: April 24, 2008 EST  

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