The silence is deafening, isn't it?

To kind of build on what has been said here, I was wondering what most people feel is the number one largest error in the Bible? I know that there are so many to choose from but what is the top lie/error/contradiction/addition/etc?
I am curious to see which one comes out as leader of the pack. I suspect that it will be one for which there isn't even a xian apologist that can remotely provide even a doubtful response.

It is unfortunate that you have chosen to bring God down to a mere intellectual level. The problem is that God does not dwell in mans intellectual reasoning for as you are well aware of the fact that the Bible says that men’s ways are not the ways of God for the ways of God are so much higher then mans.

It is hard to argue on the level of the mind. Even science cannot come to an agreement on many issues. Does this mean science does not exist and that we should throw all science out the window? Probably not.

Also remember that a man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument. For twenty years I lived for this world. For the past twenty three years now I have lived for God. The wisdom this world offered was nothing more then a deafening silence. The wisdom and understanding God has given me, well it changed my life.

I will leave you to find all the errors you want. I will also leave you with a prayer: Lord, reveal Yourself not through anyone’s mind but through their heart.

The silence is still deafening. The many errors of the bible are too numerous to pick the most glaring, for me anyway. The biggest error we make as humans is to put our trust in it to begin with. Oh well, such is life.

Annonymous,

I find it interesting that, not having any arguments against the posted questions, you went for an emotional appeal.

Too many of us here are trained in rhetoric. We do not buy that sort of stuff.

It doesn't matter how you put it. Your perfect book still doesn't add up.

Lorena

Quote from the first Anonymous fundy to step up to the plate:

"It's unfortunate that you have chosen to bring God down to a mere intellectual level. The problem is that God does not dwell in man's intellectual reasoning for as you are well aware of the fact that the Bible says that men's ways are not the ways of God for the ways of God are so much higher than mans."

....::yawn::....

So much higher than man's ways, eh? Perfect. Okay then, the first "logical" question would be: Why in the hell is there an entire fricking book dedicated to EXPLAINING God's ways TO man?(another contradiction....shocked?)

Seriously, if "God's ways" are so far beyond our comprehension, then I would nicely ask every Christian out there to please----STOP reading from, ministering from, justifying your predjudice from, spouting hateful things from, and MOST of all, please stop coming here and regurgitating scripture from that book known as "God's Word"...i.e...your "Holey" Bible. Thanks so much.

Most of us who at one time embraced christianity did so because we had an experience of something. As I now realise my mistake was thinking that just because I had a wonderful experience of transcending my personal sense of ego, (which always feels great......ask anyone who falls in love!), I didn,t have to abandon my reason and anchor that experience in what the preacher said. Thankfully the more wrapped up in dogma I became, the worse I felt. So, when I had had enough I let it go....which was painful, because I knew what I had experienced was real, but the belief system it was anchored in was false. I have found that same experience and feeling but because it is now guided by reason, that "spiritual" experience continues to grow and deepen. NEVER abandon your reason....no matter what you experience in a revival meeting, etc. When we abandon the "Head" instead of the "Heart", we don,t become more enlightened...we become stupid. And when stupidity enters politics, as when literalist christians and jews think Jehovah has given them land,(which the literalist muslims think Allah has given to them) it becomes dangerous and divisive.

I used to be a christian but it was so long ago that I don't even know how I would have responded to these comments. But instead of having my brain shrivel to the size of a peanut, now I try to give all people the benefit of the doubt. Which is coincidentally what makes me better than a fundy. Anyway I'm going to play the devil's advocate to see what reactions I get.

1. The bible doesn't glow when you open it. It's not going to strike you with lightning if you try to burn it. It's just a collection of writings from people that make mistakes like everyone else. Whether or not they were "inspired" is a matter of faith. The point is that the authors do agree on central ideas. From what little I know about the bible, there are no major contradictions in this regard. I would think that the people who assembled the writings would have left anything like that.


2. Saying that a particular belief doesn't work is matter of personal faith and can't really be viewed as a good argument.

3. This is also a matter of opinion. As modern civilized people, we can't understand alot of the practices of other cultures. What seems terrible to us would be normal to another. "Civilized" people thought the indians were savages, and they probably were. But we didn't ahve the right to enforce our way of life on them, no matter how better off we think they'd be. In some countries torture is an accepted practice and normal way of life. To them it's not wrong. So when you see all these things in the bible that seem barbaric, whether they are or not isn't the issue. We can't really understand the way they think unless we're in their shoes. Looking at another cultures practices and beliefs from the outside and saying their wrong isn't a very strong argument agaist the bible. Maybe they thought God killed people that were evil. It's not our responsibility to judge an ancient culture's way of thinking.

"I will leave you to find all the errors you want. I will also leave you with a prayer: Lord, reveal Yourself not through anyone’s mind but through their heart."

Give it up Annoy because it will not work. You know your heart ONLY pumps blood and your mind think, imagine and hold memories (unless you become senile in which time your memory wears away almost to the base, as at the end of an erosion cycle).

You lack the basic common senses, Annoy. Try biology 101 and this time, don't miss a class!

Biblical contradictions are end less. The bible is a book of bullshit. Here is an example.According to Liviticus Homosexuality is an abomination and is punishable by death, however so is eating shellfish, like prawns, crayfish, oysters. How many Christians eat this type of food yet condemn those with sexual proferences. Bunch of bloody hypocrites

Jim Lee back again.Check out these contradictions. Any Christians reading this use you bible in conjunction.
CONCEPTION OF JESUS.

Do you think that Mary and Joseph should have remembered the miraculous events surrounding the birth of Jesus? You would naturally think that when a woman goes through a unique conception, that she would remember it, and that the man who’s wife became pregnant while they were engaged, without any effort on his part, that he would remember it also. It is not something he would easily forget. Yet the gospel writers seem to have strange memory lapses.

According to Luke 2: 42-50, Mary finds Jesus in the temple, she chastises him for causing so much trouble, whereby he replied "Why is it that you are looking for me? Did you not know that I must be concerned with the affairs of my father". Luke’s gospel adds, "and they (Mary and Joseph) did not understand the saying that he (Jesus) spoke to them." Mary does not understand, Joseph does not understand, If Mary and Joseph were both visited by angels before the birth of Jesus, how is it that they don’t understand, some twelve years later. Has Mary forgotten that Jesus was supernaturally conceived in such a way as was never experienced by any other person? Is it unlikely that Mary would forget Elizabeth saying to her? "Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb." "And why is this (granted) to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me." Luke 1:42-43, and especially Mary’s own words. "My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my saviour. For he has looked upon the humble state of his slave girl, for, behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed, because the mighty one has done great things to me, and holy is his name." Luke 1:46-49,

After all of this Mary does not know what Jesus meant when he said that he must be concerned about the affairs of his father. How could Mary and Joseph forget that the wise men Magi worshipped Jesus as a baby and presented him with gold, frankincense, and myrrh? Matthew 2:11, They also seemed to forget how an angel appeared to Joseph telling him to go to Egypt with Mary and Jesus. Matthew 2: 13, and that Herod slew all of the children two years of age or under in Bethlehem. Matthew 2: 16. How could they forget that, (apart from the fact that it fulfilled scripture,

Hosea 11:1) Why did they have to flee to Egypt ? Did they go to Egypt? According to Luke 2: 39, they went to Nazareth and were not in the dangerous area of Bethlehem, where it is alleged that Herod had the children slain. This creates another problem Herod died four years prior to when the church originally stated that Jesus was born.

Perhaps Matthew’s placing them in Egypt to fulfill scripture was too quick for Joseph and Mary to remember, for Luke 2: 22, has them in Jerusalem for forty days after the birth to fulfill Leviticus 12:1-8, and then in Luke 2:39, they return to Nazareth. They also seemed to forget how the shepherds, made known the saying which had been told to them about this child, Luke 2: 17. Mary and Joseph even forgot, how they marveled ten months after the angelic visitations, that is, one month after the event surrounding Jesus birth.

At that time they were already surprised when Simeon and Anna, the daughter of Phanvel, spoke of Jesus future while he was yet still an infant. Luke 2:25-38.

If these events are historical, why is it that later, during Jesus active period, no one, not even his family, seem to know of his marvelous origins, Matt.13: 54-55, If a conception took place would not Mary have some idea just as to who Jesus was? Would not she reveal this information to her family? Yet we find that Jesus relatives, who came to seize him, Mark 3:21,31, are not told by Mary his mother, who comes and joins them, that contrary to what they think, Jesus is not crazy.

The gospel of John states "For neither did his brothers believe in him" John 7: 5, Did Mary not inform the rest of her children of Jesus divine origins. It is hard to understand that Mary would not inform them that Jesus was the "messiah" so that they might believe in him and thereby enjoy salvation, and what of Mary’s own reaction towards Jesus. In the few appearances that Mary herself makes in the gospels, during the lifetime of Jesus, there is no indication that she showed any understanding that her son Jesus, was the "son of God." by means of a unique conception. Mark 3:31-35, John 2:3-4. She, Mary revealed no such understanding to his followers.

Jesus earlier followers said that Jesus became the "Son of God" through the resurrection and they never mentioned a unique conception. Paul declared Jesus to be "Son of God" with power, by the resurrection from the dead. Romans 1: 4, see also Acts 13: 33, Where Psalm 2: 7 is applied to the resurrection.

The doctrine of a unique conception seems to have no effect upon Christian teaching prior to its mention in the last part of the first century.

On the basis of New Testament records it is doubtful that Jesus family, or the early believers, and most of all, even Mary herself did not know about the unique conception she is alleged to have undergone." Did you not know that I must be concerned with the affairs of my Father?" Strange as it may seem, Mary and Joseph did not know it. They did not know it because they had never heard of their son’s "miraculous conception". It appears that the unique miraculous conception came into circulation long after the deaths of the people in this story.

These idiots just come on to the site and say just about anything that constitue foolishness.

If only there was a scrubber to detect stupidiy the minute they start typing away...

How appropriate my last post was...hehehe

Eh Hem!!

Here is what Jim Lee had to say: “The bible is a book of bullshit. Here is an example According to Leviticus Homosexuality is an abomination and is punishable by death, however so is eating shellfish, like prawns, crayfish, oysters. How many Christians eat this type of food yet condemn those with sexual preferences.”

Have you worn any wool with linen lately?
Worn any short sleeves? ------ My bad, that’s Islamic

Yep, all of it is bullshit!!!

Genesis Ch. 6 vs. 6
And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

But nowhere in the bible does it say, it repented the Lord that he created Satan and allowed all evil to exist on earth, nor did it grieve him at his heart.

Ben wrote:

Genesis Ch. 6 vs. 6
And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

But nowhere in the bible does it say, it repented the Lord that he created Satan and allowed all evil to exist on earth, nor did it grieve him at his heart.



Yet these same people that this god regretted making, gave them permission to write a book about his requirements toward salvation.

Talk about contradictions.....lol


To you anonymous christians posters, reality and truth are a threat to you, you have nothing to ad to these forums, why don't you all go pray for yourself that you might acquire some common sense, instead of waisting your time trying to spew your religious beliefs on to us, it does not work here.

Me, If you can feel love. just what does love feel like? What is Love? What does gods love feel like? Could it be that you're just repeating something that you've heard someone else say before?

If not then, explain to all us what is love? We're waiting!

Ben said: "But nowhere in the bible does it say, it repented the Lord that he created Satan and allowed all evil to exist on earth, nor did it grieve him at his heart."

That's because the devil is god's other personality.

"Who would have thought that one small comment would have brought such a fire storm of ridicule by so many."

Actually, Annoy, we never asked for your comments, but it's typical of christians to go where they are not invited. So don't get bent out of shape.

~If only there was a scrubber to detect stupidiy the minute they start typing away...~

Was it moral for we Homo sapiens to use our superior intellect to cause the extinction of Neanderthal man? Of course! God said "Go forth and multiply" and those big ugly bastards kept getting in the way!

Would the lion have become the king of the beasts if he had felt sorry for the Gazelle? No!

We kill virtually every other creature on earth to maintain our position at the top of the food chain. WHY? Because that is the way God made us!

If I was God, I would tell Satan to "Take a hike," but then I am more moral than God. I would never do some of the horrendous things that he does, like letting millions of babies starve, or allow billions of people to have their minds held captive by primitive religions.
Dan

Excuse "Me".

Look, it's simple---here at Ex-Christian.net we tear down C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-I-T-Y----we do it by the same right of passage that people at an AA support site would tear down alcoholism and the people who push it. And quite frankly, the people who would be ballzy enough to DO such a thing are only asking to get chewed up and spit out. Either provide objective evidence for your belief, or scram. Thanks.

Hey Mike,

I posted a response on the old thread, and then I found this one. Anyway, I was going to leave it at that, but I wanted to recommend a book to you that I've been reading. It's called "A New Kind of Christian," by Brian McLaren. It's actually the beginning of a trilogy, so far I've only read the first. Don't get bogged down by the dorky prose, there are some ideas presented pretty radically different from modern Christianity. Okay, that's all then. Thanks for your civillity in your previous response.

Sincerely,
Josh

Here is the god of the OT, who had kinky preoccupations for foreskins and in the same breath (NT) will send you to hell for not believing in his dead son his ownself.

The problem is my fellow ex-Christian is that our moral platform doesn’t have to be above others but when competing with the bible and theocracy’s moralities, ours are superior……unlike the christians, they have to blame others and supernatural hocus pocus (devils) for their short commings, refusing to take respsibility....and they hate it!

Foreskins??? I wonder what the hospitals do with all those Forskins....lol What an abomination....Holy Shit, should not those Forskins be burnt as an offering to god for our sins...lol

Frank,

It's all about the flesh and blood...the stench of rotting flesh...what a gawd concept.

Notice, with every sacrific, it involved flesh and blood.

boomSlang, the annoy one has nothing to offer but whining.

Yea, Take a sh*t or get off the pot!

So god has changed his taste, now he wants his meat air dried on a skewer, I can relate to that....lol

Look kids, the reason there's few responses is because at the start it challenges FUNDIES. Most Christians aren't fundies.

I, like you walked away and, like you felt intellectually superior for awhile. Then I started learning.

You can find me in Yahoo CC4 most days, or we can start a thread at theologyweb.com if you like. But know that I am nore more interested in being swore at or being subjected to name calling.

zap_30jeanluc

Sorry, that's
"no more interested in being swore at or subjected to name calling than the originator of this piece"

zap_30jeanluc

Seriously, come find me in Yahoo, we'll talk.

Personally, I think God made the Bible that way to inspire faith. A child believes in Santa Claus, but never sees him, but still is sure that He will bring his presents, and sure enough they are. That to me is what faith is, and what the Bible was made to teach. To believe in a religion you have to have faith in it, am I right? Of course. You are all welcome to your opinions, but as for me, I will walk the way of faith.

PS: It is for this purpose that God wrote, "Nothing is impossible through God." As long as you believe that, everything should be just a little bit easier to believe, even with all the controversies, God is not limited like us mortals, any thing is possible. But that is assuming he exists, which I believe, for me it just makes things easier to understand.

I want someone to debate with me upon these things, I am a strong believer in Christ and I am willing to take on any challenge, you can most likely find me on DanielThePaladin@aol.com or DonEquivo@aol.com, I use these SNs for RolePlaying, so try not to overload them with emails.

Daniel, Nah bring your shit over here, we're not leaving our friends. There's nothing to debate, religion and the bible is all a lie and bullshit.

Christ? Who was that? Wasn't he a circus clown? Never heard of him/her.

What are you afraid of? Scared I'd make you think? Here's what I think, I think we're ALL a bunch of ignorant people trying to compensate for some imperfection. I know I am, the point is, can you admit your not perfect?

And another thing, Jesus was proven to actually have existed, despite any religious affiliation, it CAN be proven that he existed, whatever he said and preached is up to you to believe or disbelieve.

I'm still waiting for that person who feels strong enough in their beliefs to try to convice me they are right. I am an open-minded person unlike your typical "Christian" if you must call them that, so if what you say has any validity I would gladly listen.

Hello Daniel. Mike here. I posted this challenge, not to stir up the waters, but to seriously hear from fundamental christians who believe in an inerrant bible, to see if they have ever dealt with the three problems I outlined above. The only response to my challenge so far seems to have been, and I am paraphrasing, "I have faith, I dont need the bible" which is truly absurd for a religion that holds the bible up as it's main evidence for the existence and works of Jesus. I am not looking for a debate in which you start reelign off the usual christian arguements, with you thinking "hey, I might get him to seriously consider the gospel for the first time". Spare me. I have believed the gospel, but the more I read the bible, the more problems I find. Chrostianity is NOT 100% faith, as the gospel writers specifically wrote "...so that we may believe...". While it is not based on (man's) wisdom, the bible challenges us to make a decision based on the evidence it provides. My trouble is that the evidence, the bible itself, is looking shaky. I would love to hear how you respond to the challenges I posted above, as a starting point for our discussion. Many regards. Mike

I think we should just shut-up and listen "Jim Lee.!"
He's pretty much got this ex-
christian thing "down!"......
YOU GO JIM,!!YU DA MAN!...
P.s., great site,& its an honor to know you sir!

ANUS#1,000,0000,O0000,000&2
Dose'nt god say "LET US REASON TOGETHER<.AND DID'NT JEBUSS
COME DOWN TO OUR LEVEL TO REACH US?
IT DON'T ADD UP DOES IT?
YEE HAY!

I'm sure we can all agree that the Bible was written by people, and those same people wrote that man is imperfect. God made us to have free will. It might make sense to entertain the idea that "God's Inspiration" may have been "lost in the translation" As we all know, man is imperfect and tends to... exaggerate and exclude to make one's point more appealing. God is not to blame for the Bible's misinterpretations, man is, which we are all part of.

3. Finally there are those passages that are clearly undefendable, as they contradict what the Bible says elsewhere about God being loving. I submit two examples for you: 1. In Exodus, when Moses and Aaron are demanding the release of the Israelites from Egyptian captivity, God's final plague kills all the firstborn, including innocent children and babies. Imagine George Bush and Tony Blair telling the world that, in order to speed up the Iraq way, the allied air forces would bomb the schools and orphanages instead of the command bunkers and ammo dumps. That would be a war crime and yet here is the God of love doing just that. If God can do all things, he could have struck down each pharoh that said 'no' to Moses' demand, just like God did with Ananias and Saphyra in Acts 5. Eventually, one of the replacement pharohs would have wised up and said yes. God didn't do that and instead killed innocent babies and kids. Great one. The second example is the book of Job. God and Satan are involved in what we in industry call a 'pissing contest' for bragging rights. As a consequence, Job loses his health, his livelihood and all his children. His three friends try to console him, with such wisdom as 'you obviously are guilty of sin because bad things happen when you sin' and 'you must not have had enough faith. (You obviously haven't been to enough church services, revival meetings etc)'. Job dismisses all of this BS. God eventually turns up and answers Job's questions of 'why did this all happen' with this gem: "I'm big and powerful, look at all the big things I created. I could snuff you out in an instance, I'm that powerful. Don't talk to me like that". God THREATENS Job. After all he's put Job through, (don't forget, God TOLD Satan to afflict Job), all God has to say is 'I'm big, don't f**k with me". That's God's message to the bereaved and the hurting who want to know 'why'. Nice one, God!

Whew! This one will be fun. I must say that I completely disagree with the analogous statement of God's Judgement and the whitehouse officials. Unlike some people I support the government, but enough of that. It was not GOD that had the babies killed, but the choice of man's wickedness. God does not force man to think for or against something that would end innocent babies lives for example. So, in a sense, he is powerless to stop it, so therefore unnacountable, unless you trace it all the way back to even making man in the first place. Honestly, what would you think of God if he actually HAD struck down the pharoahs? Now onto Job's story. I am not sure if Job was more of a symbolic story than an actual person, but nonetheless, God knew that he could make an example of Job, and so it was written in the bible. If Job had been a wicked man like mostly the rest of the world, it would have made even less sense. I think God was justified in doing this to Job, if you'll read on, he was then blessed many times over for his faithful commitment to God. So I make another point clarified, I am eager to hear what other things I can clear up for you. Perhaps you might even try to convince me of your views? I am the opposite of a zealot, I WANT someone to convince me the bible is wrong. Good luck, they don't call me Daniel (Which means faith in hebrew) for nothing.

Ah, I lost my arguement to the second, I need to retype it...

2. There are passages containing promises that clearly do not work. In Isaiah 53 it says "by his stripes we are healed". But of course we aren't. In the new testament we read that if two or three agree in prayer, the prayer will be answered, and if we have faith as small as a mustard seed, we can literally move mountains with prayer. Of course, this is also rubbish, (and please don't try and tell me 'mountain' just means 'large problem').

Alright, this is a really simple response, do you believe in miracles? Have you, or anyone you know experienced a miracle? I'm sure you've heard at least one miraculous story in your life time. I for one, believe in miracles, and that anything is possible. So therefore, my faith is "greater than a mustard seed", and if God willed it as test of my faith, I would pray, and I know the mountain would move. But perhaps an example would be a better persuasion to my point. As for the example of two or three agreeing in prayer, I have found that all of my prayers (Justified and logical ones, not like, Oh God smite this person, because thats a curse, not a prayer) have been answered most efficiently in groups. The bible tells us to pray without ceasing, if you are having troubles having your prayers answered, check your motives, and keep praying, there have been people praying for years, and then finally it being answered, I'm sure you could find such a testimony all over the internet. I'm not here to convert, I'm here to convince you, the reader, that my arguement is logical and persuasively conclusive. It is now your turn for a counter arguement, if any. And please, spare me the insults, you ex-christians crucify us with stereotypical sayings of us being closed-minded, of which I surely am not. I'll take another quote, which was found in the bible as well, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." So don't be closed-minded on me, please.

As a closing statement I wish to make known my view of God. God is neither good nor evil, he is nuetral, and nuetral is good. God created both good and evil, and thusly has knowledge of both. Consider this, Can you have good without a bad? Can you have purity without sin? Can there be perfection without imperfection?
Sit on that for a while, I'm sure that makes sense to someone else out there reading this.

Daniel wrote:
"As a closing statement I wish to make known my view of God. God is neither good nor evil, he is neutral, and neutral is good. God created both good and evil, and thusly has knowledge of both. Consider this, Can you have good without a bad? Can you have purity without sin? Can there be perfection without imperfection?
Sit on that for a while, I'm sure that makes sense to someone else out there reading this."
posted: 2/10/2006 5:35 AM EST  

Dano answers:
Since the intelligence of a God capable of creating everything, and knowing everything cannot be compared with creatures like us that are just a little bit smarter than Chimps (Our first cousins), we therefore cannot pose any intelligent question as to what he is capable of.

If I had to guess, I would guess that he may have already created a more perfect form of life out there on one of those 2 billion other planets that are similar to earth. 90% of the humans here on Earth cannot even see or comprehend the basic irrationality of him creating a Satan, or needing a human sacrifice to him. Most of the people here on earth cannot even see that their pretending to Know who God is or what it thinks, is totally ludicrous!
Dan

Emaunal, it is not the idea of God that ios the problem for me. Please don't dismiss my challenge with "you really don't want the answers as you are just looking for an excuse to run from God" I really want to see if the Bible can stand up to being examined.

Daniel,

I'm certain that you do not realize that your first post actually supports our many of our beliefs. (The atheists anyway)

"A child believes in Santa Claus, but never sees him, but still is sure that He will bring his presents, and sure enough they are."

Yes a child believes in an unseen Santa. Gifts are the only supporting evidence. Of course these gifts are from freinds and relatives. I agree this is faith. Just as belief in a god who brought you a universe, a universe brought to you by natural means, is faith.

Daniel said... Honestly, what would you think of God if he actually HAD struck down the Pharoahs?

The God of the Bible doesn't strike down Pharoahs, he only slays Men for refusing to impregnate their dead brother's wives. (Who God also murdered.) Gen. 38:9-10

Nothing you say makes sense, Daniel. You make up your own version of your big sky daddy to fit for you, but it is meaningless as most of us don't share your special fantasy. It is also in conflict with your own so called "guide book."

The wholey babble is 100% nonsense and I find it useless. I used to think it had some value as toliet paper, but it is too rough.

You can also wish for magic from your imaginary friend all you want and think that because every now and then something your prayed for happens, it works. It doesn't.

Regards, carol

Daniel you've said some really stupid things, this comes to show us that you've got that little bugger in your mind. It's that mind disease called religion.

You know what?

You have what every christian, every muslim, every person that claim a knowledge or relationship with their god.

It's called Spiritually Superior....you and millions and billions just like you Daniel think that they have recieved this special gift of knowledge and it therefore grants you a special privilege to be spiritually superior, just like the baptist think they are more spiritually superior than mormons, or the jews, or the muslims, and the muslims think that they are more spiritually superior over jews, and on and on, etc. etc. nothing but wars and hatred have spread out from all religions, and we can feel your hatred spewing on to us Atheist's and nonbelievers, because you think that you have something that we don't have. By having this belief in a god or your book of words this somehow makes you feel supreme, it makes you feel justified to push your stupid beliefs on to people that have no use in feeling superior over others.

The pilgrims killed over 50 million Indians because they felt spiritually superior, we went over to Iraq because America is spiritually superior and we've killed innocent women and children, but it's not told to us it's kept secret.

Daniel get over yourself, you have nothing but a silly belief, grow up, you sound like a silly 10 year old boy that owns something that is only obtainable by listening to you.

We have no use for your mindrot philosopy, you're the loser here, you lose with all hands down, now go away and pout to mommy that you've been scolded, you little snot nosed brat.

Back to anony who prayed that the Lord would reveal himself through the heart not the mind -

Anony, here are some fine examples of what you pray (or is it prey) for:

1. "Negroes were enslaved because they had sinned against God"...Cotton Mather 1693

2. God allowed 911 to happen because of sin in America....Jerry Falwell 2001

3.God sent Hurricane Katrina because of homosexualty and abortion in America....Pat Robertson 2005

Perhaps the heart is the wrong metaphor; the bowels might be closer to the truth since you are opposed to using the mind.

Daniel: "As a closing statement I wish to make known my view of God. God is neither good nor evil, he is nuetral, and nuetral is good."

"Your" view of god..humm. From the last count, there were 8,000+ other views. So where does "your" view fit into this number? Is it the 6,999th view...lol

By the way, since you been here, you have been qouting scriptures out your ying yang...where is that one found..ya know, the "nuetral" stuff?

Hello Daniel Said...

I am a christian. I actually was looking for somthing on google and saw this site. I was not looking to debate with Non-christians about why they are wrong. Why? We are all people living our own lives and that's, that!

Danial you say you are a christian and you are talking about the bible and trying to defend the comments that were posted by the orginial author of this debate. But, don't forget that the bible also saids not to argue and debate with man... so why are you... you keep writing things to heat debates.. but rememeber you are on a site devoted to proving christianity wrong. So, why not leave this site and live your life and let them live theirs. Why argue, God didn't argue when he was chanllanged to defend himself the day he was sentenced to be crucified, nor should you.

Katie

Katie,
Honey, its not the fact that he was crucified, or how he behaved during the process that is important. What is important is: Is this the best concept of God that they could come up with back then? A God who needed a pagan sacrifice to himself. A sacrifice that was somehow magically him. A child that was conceived by a Holy Ghost, that was also magically him, into one of his own children, (Mary) What is important to understand is Jesus thought he was a special son of God, and if he was, it wouldn't be any big thing to die, knowing that you were somehow magically God. What IS IMPORTANT for you to understand is: The whole concept is Pagan, primitive, irrational, and is an insult to Gods intelligence.
Dan

I have never forced my views upon anyone else, nor would I expect them to do so to me. I only wish that someone else would have the maturity to see the world through my eyes for but a moment. I love to hear others peoples thoughts about the world, who knows, maybe in this world of impossibilities we are all right. But even the 'primitive' shamans of jungle tribes and American indians believed in spirits and communed with them, so there should be no doubt they existed, but then again, that is my opinion. And the Nuetral Theory, as I have mentioned before, is something made up on my own, to me it makes perfect sense. God made Lucifer, Lucifer became evil, God allowed free will that Lucifer used to create evil. But, you can't have Good things without an Evil thing to compare it to. So therefore, before Lucifer fell, the universe we shall say, was nuetral, and only God knew of the concepts of Good and Evil. But, that is to say he exists. Perhaps this Big Bang occured, so we just live lives like every other creature, thats just fine with me, I've entertained that idea as I grew up, no problem. But as for me, the Bible isn't so much as a guideline, but a means of making me a better person. I LOVE being criticized, it inspires me to be better because I know I am imperfect. This gives me some self value, and great goals to becomeing a better person that I will continue to work on for the rest of my life.

I don't think you can blame God for all the horrible things that have happened to the world. 911, Katrina. Actually, I've overheard rumor that Katrina was a result of the government testing out new technology, and similarly a new battle tactic, it seems pyschics have gained root in the government, which has been seen in several police investigations if you don't believe me. But returning to my point. God, as he is described, is Perfect and Loving. This is also supported by the fact that God gave us free will to do with whatever we want, so therefore, God is conveniently unnacountable for the wicked things man does. But, true enough, there are some cases of "Divine Intervention, as per means of righteous smiting." I believe he did this to better favor the righteous people of the world, however many there were at the time and even the "favored ones", the Jews. It takes a religious person to understand them, not saying that I am one, I hate religion, but I love to study it and all its loopholes. But, I would have done the same thing if I were God. Call me Hitler Junior, but I think the world would be better with a few less people to worry about. But that doesn't mean I am going to become a fanatic and blow myself up in the middle of a 'heathen' city. I could never be so mad at someone that I had to take my OWN life, that just doesn't make sense. But to them, they probably think they were justified. A wise man once said, "Judge not my ways until you have tried them for yourself." I know that many of you have had the 'experience' of being a Christian, and I greatly appreciate your claims, because yours are the ones free of the ignorance I've heard so much of.

But keep in mind, if you actually believe that these events have happened in history, which have been historicaly recorded and can be proven and found in texts in the Vatican, you are agreeing that a higher being has demonstrated authority over the Earth, so be careful how you respond, those of you who are atheists.

Daniel said...

"...have been historicaly recorded and can be proven and found in texts in the Vatican,..."


Please enlighten us about these texts as we all wish to examine them and their contents!

As a former catholic, the only thing I heard about "secret texts" was that they revealed the true nature of the church. You know this truth but are afraid to admit it. Jesus was a lie and it is all about control!

I do not believe in your mythological god nor any power attributed to it over this existance!

Have a nice day!

God and religion is a crippling disease which must be eradicated!

Disease or not, I am a much better person than I would have been without Bible standards.

That is a sad commentary on your life Daniel! Sorry.

So without the Bible you'd be stealing, raping, murdering, etc.?

Really?

Not that it's too shocking, but it appears that the "challenger", one "Daniel", has exploited his own incomprehension; his own inexperience; his own nescience...and all-in-all, his lack of producing a sound logical argument for the existance of the Christian biblegod, and hence, the validity of the book known as the Holy Bible...aka, the "inspired word of God". Okay, out of the several dozen "arguments" that he has posted, let's examine his "closing statement"(like we could be so lucky). Here's the first indication that immediately reveals a deficiency in simple mathematics:

"As a closing statement I wish to make known my view of God. God is neither good nor evil, he is nuetral. And nuetral is good."

Okay, even the banjo player on Deliverance would see the contradiction here: Let's see, God is not in a set of "good or evil"; God is "neutral". Yet, if "neutral is good", then "neutral" is in a sub-set of "good"....so then by pure mathematics, God would HAVE to be "good", yet, handsome starts out his speil with "God is neither good nor evil". Jesus christ, that is BRILLIANT! lol!

Note: If ANY world view is "neutral", it is most certainly the atheist/agnostic world view. We are merely waiting on this thing called......EVIDENCE.

Of course, while his statement is only a subjective opinion---and as well, while it fails miserably in concept---it also fails because we know that there has NEVER been evidence put forth for a "God" in the first place, as just mentioned.

One more time, folks: The bible is NOT evidence for the existance of a "God", anymore than "Twas the Night Before Christmas" is proof of St. Nick. So again, any Christian: Please provide OBJECTIVE, UNIVERSAL, ABSO--F%CKING-LUTE evidence for the Christian God, and the Holy Bible as "His Word". You would save so much face if you would just say "I don't have evidence, I take it on Faith"...... notwithstanding, "Faith as big as a mustard seed" won't budge a mustard seed.

Webmaster Dave,
Kind of makes you wonder about "those" who live amongst us, doesn’t it?

Note: If ANY world view is "neutral", it is most certainly the atheist/agnostic world view. We are merely waiting on this thing called......EVIDENCE.

Well put boomslang!

Daniel said,

there are some cases of "Divine Intervention, as per means of righteous smiting."

Daniel,
I love that word "righteous smiting", can I use it? Did God use "righteous smiting" on Job's family? Do I use "righteous smiting" on my penis? Sometimes I think that I am going to choke it to death, is that the same?

Your Pal,
Farris

You say you want objective evidence of the existence of God. Why? You won't believe without it? How do you objectify the wind? How do you objectify the many mysteries of the natural world? You seem to want to break them down and categorize them...make them safe and predictable. If they aren't, they aren't controllable, and that's scary.
Science can go either way on this. Many scientific discoveries suggest the existence of God. Why would he create a physical world that does not attest to His presence? However, if you're looking for measureable units of God's presence, Gpu's, so to speak, you won't find them. So do you see what I mean? There's no conclusive proof on either side.
Why are you so angry at fundamentalist Christians? Doesn't it seem a better use of your energy and mind to do something more productive and beneficial to the community in which you live?
Most of you say (in paraphrase) "I didn't leave the church because of a bad experience with the people, just because I saw too many holes in the Bible."
Your responses tend not to match that concept - you seem to be very angry at fundamentalist Christians in general, regardless of what they say or do. Where is all of this anger coming from?

Just testin'.

Don't mind me.

This is a perfect example of how people take their beliefs. Some of you have demonstrated that you don't understand my veiw of the Nuetral Theory, which to me makes perfect sense. God is neither Good nor Evil, for he created both, therefore, he is neither, yet perfection at the same time. This demonstrates a good point on how Christians and ex-christians view the world, they can't understand the other. Which, in the Bible it says that those that are not with the Lord cannot understand Him. I am going to attempt to remember which verse that was in so I can post it.

And for those of you who want proof of God, seek him out with a needful heart and I'll bet anything that he'll make himself known to you. God is an experience like no other, and I myself have experienced the "Holy Spirit" moving inside of me if you will. That is why I will never doubt his existance, because I have felt it, as have many other people across the world who believe.

People spend years trying to find God, Jehova, Allah, Buddha? Etc... etc... So, Would you mind if I ask how many years you have been studying their, nonexistance if you will?

And by the end of their lifetimes, most of them could say, "I have found God." So, it seems that they have found prove of God's existance in their hearts. So I conclude that you cannot prove God as a concept, but rather an experience, which I know anyone could do if they just tried, honestly.

God was not meant to be proved as a concept, because he is above that and any other mortal classification. Which means the debate over the concept of God's existance isn't going anywhere. But if you want to debate if you can 'experience' God, I'll take on any one, any time, any where. (And by any where I mean here.)

Daniel, I'm sorry, but you're a just bit "out there." I can make very little sense out of any of your posts.

No offense, but I think it's time for you to move on to somewhere else. You are no longer welcome here.

Sincerely.

webmaster:.
Daniel comes across perfectly clear to me. He says:

"I don't think you can blame God for all the horrible things that have happened to the world. 911, Katrina. Actually, I've overheard rumor that Katrina was a result of the government testing out new technology, and similarly a new battle tactic, it seems pyschics have gained root in the government, which has been seen in several police investigations if you don't believe me." AND......:

"But even the 'primitive' shamans of jungle tribes and American indians believed in spirits and communed with them, so there should be no doubt they existed"

It is perfectly clear to me that DANIEL believes that the government just may have caused Hurricane Katrina, that he believes in psychics, and that people commune with spirits. Every one of his posts disclose some core belief that he maintains. Even though, as a result of a summation of all of his beliefs makes him look a little like an "Air Head" I believe that when he runs out of theories, and gets bored with himself, he may mull over what some of us have said in this great body of pro rational thought. (people like him avoid the great rational questions about their metaphysical beliefs, as if they were the plague) , but I do agree with you on your sentiment:

"Daniel, I'm sorry, but you're a just bit out there."
Dan

What a waist of perfectly good space...lol