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encouraging ex-Christians
Rants and articles submitted by and for ex-Christians
By DocMike
In 2005, Bill O'Reilly declared there was a "War On Christmas" because retailers were posting signs that said, "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas." Of course, the stores were simply trying to appeal to all Americans instead of a single group, in hopes that everyone would buy more stuff during the holiday shopping season. But Uncle Bill and his followers proceeded to blacklist retailers and anyone else who didn't cave in to the media pressure.
Now, three years later, Bill is pushing, "We Say Merry Christmas" bumper stickers (free with a purchase of $19.95 or more from his website), The Liberty Council and Focus on the Family have posted "Naughty or Nice" lists, identifying retailers who mention (or don't mention) the word "Christmas" in their ads, and there has been a major backlash by religious groups (and individuals) about recent billboards and signs posted by various groups.
When are Bill and the others going to realize that this is not a war on Christmas? Rather, it's an effort to include everyone, regardless of their beliefs, in the celebration of the season. Whether you celebrate The Winter Solstice, Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, or whatever, you should have the right, in a free country, to celebrate and to be acknowledged without exclusion or discrimination.
I mean, we're bombarded with Christmas messages even though most non-Christians know that it was originally a pagan holiday. You don't see non-Christian groups boycotting, having signs removed, etc. (that I know of). People of all faiths (and no faith) should be able to enjoy gift giving, family gatherings, and private and public celebrations without being demonized. And retailers should be able to advertise to the general public without being deemed "naughty".
What's really funny is the worst promotions against Christmas come from self-proclaimed Christians. See Fred Phelps's "Santa Clause will take you to Hell" promotion as a prime example.
How's that for a "War on Christmas?"
Other References:
Liberty Council Naughty/Nice List
Focus on the Family puts retailers on Christmas naughty, nice list
Atheist sign joins nativity scene, tree at Capitol
Missing atheist sign found in Washington state
"Imagine No Religion" Billboard Visits Canton, Ohio This Month!
American Humanist Association Puts Atheist Ads on D.C. Buses
Don't believe in God? You are not alone.
![Reblog this post [with Zemanta]](http://img.zemanta.com/reblog_a.png?x-id=a5908741-072a-4fa4-883f-b98b8b32a528)
In 2005, Bill O'Reilly declared there was a "War On Christmas" because retailers were posting signs that said, "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas." Of course, the stores were simply trying to appeal to all Americans instead of a single group, in hopes that everyone would buy more stuff during the holiday shopping season. But Uncle Bill and his followers proceeded to blacklist retailers and anyone else who didn't cave in to the media pressure.Now, three years later, Bill is pushing, "We Say Merry Christmas" bumper stickers (free with a purchase of $19.95 or more from his website), The Liberty Council and Focus on the Family have posted "Naughty or Nice" lists, identifying retailers who mention (or don't mention) the word "Christmas" in their ads, and there has been a major backlash by religious groups (and individuals) about recent billboards and signs posted by various groups.
When are Bill and the others going to realize that this is not a war on Christmas? Rather, it's an effort to include everyone, regardless of their beliefs, in the celebration of the season. Whether you celebrate The Winter Solstice, Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, or whatever, you should have the right, in a free country, to celebrate and to be acknowledged without exclusion or discrimination.
I mean, we're bombarded with Christmas messages even though most non-Christians know that it was originally a pagan holiday. You don't see non-Christian groups boycotting, having signs removed, etc. (that I know of). People of all faiths (and no faith) should be able to enjoy gift giving, family gatherings, and private and public celebrations without being demonized. And retailers should be able to advertise to the general public without being deemed "naughty".
What's really funny is the worst promotions against Christmas come from self-proclaimed Christians. See Fred Phelps's "Santa Clause will take you to Hell" promotion as a prime example.
How's that for a "War on Christmas?"
Other References:
Liberty Council Naughty/Nice List
Focus on the Family puts retailers on Christmas naughty, nice list
Atheist sign joins nativity scene, tree at Capitol
Missing atheist sign found in Washington state
"Imagine No Religion" Billboard Visits Canton, Ohio This Month!
American Humanist Association Puts Atheist Ads on D.C. Buses
Don't believe in God? You are not alone.
Labels: atheism, Atheist, christmas, war on christmas
By DocMike
You can't swing a dead cat in many US cities without hitting a religious billboard. But when the Freedom From Religion Foundation put one up that simply said, "Imagine No Religion",
Christians went crazy! The sign company received so many calls from people who were "offended" that they took the sign down. And when The Colorado Coalition of Reason put this one up
the religious press had a field day.
So why are they so offended? What are they worried about? If churches all over the country can post hell threats and cutesy little "What part of 'Thou Shalt" don't you understand" signs, why can't a non-religious group post something as non-threatening as these signs?
The answer can only be that religious people realize their belief system is so fragile, so delicate, that anything that provokes thought and reason will likely change the minds of some of their flock. Or worse, these insidious non-believers could create a change in society as a whole that would make their ancient mythological beliefs completely and utterly obsolete.
Now wouldn't that be something?
![Reblog this post [with Zemanta]](http://img.zemanta.com/reblog_a.png?x-id=c4fe2da0-5d84-495b-a87f-972a72f27aad)
You can't swing a dead cat in many US cities without hitting a religious billboard. But when the Freedom From Religion Foundation put one up that simply said, "Imagine No Religion",Christians went crazy! The sign company received so many calls from people who were "offended" that they took the sign down. And when The Colorado Coalition of Reason put this one up
the religious press had a field day.
So why are they so offended? What are they worried about? If churches all over the country can post hell threats and cutesy little "What part of 'Thou Shalt" don't you understand" signs, why can't a non-religious group post something as non-threatening as these signs?
The answer can only be that religious people realize their belief system is so fragile, so delicate, that anything that provokes thought and reason will likely change the minds of some of their flock. Or worse, these insidious non-believers could create a change in society as a whole that would make their ancient mythological beliefs completely and utterly obsolete.
Now wouldn't that be something?
Labels: atheism, Free Speech, recovery from religion, Religious Billboards
Crossposted from "The Calladus Blog"
If you read Atheist blogs, you've probably come across the blog "Atheist in a Minivan". If you've recently tried to read it, you'll notice that it has been set to "private".
Here I explain how one of the best family-centered Atheist blogs on the net was hounded offline by a group of people who displayed a cult-like behavior. - Calladus
- - - - -
One of my favorite blogs went dark this week. The following is my attempt to explain what happened, and it is also a rant about the cult-like rabid fan-club that is responsible.
Background:
The author of one of my favorite blogs was raised as a Roman Catholic and started her journey toward Atheism sometime before 2004. Before her de-conversion to Atheism she tried hard to be a "good Christian", and even wrote about it in an earlier online journal. But she came to a point where she couldn't stomach the hypocrisy, couldn't resolve biblical contradictions, and finally she came to doubt her religion.
She finally "came out" as an Atheist in 2005, and on Saturday, August 19, 2006 she started a brand new blog called, "Atheist in a Minivan". In this no-frills blog using a canned layout from Blogger she started writing about her life and the lives of her husband and four children under the pseudonym, "Possummomma".
Possummomma knows what it is like to be Catholic, and pointed out when and where Catholics were wrong. She also spoke out against "Quiverfull" families. She has always stuck up for children - I think that at least some of the attacks that P-momma has endured is due in part to her willingness to stick her neck out for the welfare and happiness of children.
On top of that, she isn't well. P-momma has a chronic autoimmune disease called SLE that was until recently a death sentence. Although there still is no cure for SLE its symptoms can be treated, and life can be extended. But the symtoms can be terrible and are triggered by environmental stresses like infection, hormones, stress, and sunlight. Even necessary medications may trigger an SLE outbreak.
Her disease traps her. Even the sunlight through the windows of her home caused SLE symptoms, so she was often imprisoned inside her darkened bedroom.
Writing, and making friends on the Internet became her escape.
And she's a good writer. She's passionate about her children and about the mistreatment of children. She's passionate about religious abuses. Her own experience with religion taught her that in following religious rules she acted in ways that hurt herself and her family. In a way, by teaching her children to think for themselves P-momma seemed to be atoning for the religious damage she did to herself and to others. And we were all lucky enough to read along as she did this.
Possummomma made a lot of friends through her writing. And we slowly found out that she was reluctant to talk about her disease and how she was forced to live. One of her online friends realized she was often trapped inside her bedroom cave and decided to do something about it. Berlzebub researched SLE and found out that it is UV radiation that aggravates the symptoms. He took the initiative to research UV blocking film for windows, and when he found out how much it cost he realized he couldn't afford to help - at least not by himself.
So he spread the word to P-momma's readers and they came through! But there was a small irony - Berlzebub collected too much money. It wasn't his fault, he knew that the price to professionally install film on all of P-momma's windows would be several thousand dollars. What he didn't realize was that 3M, the company that makes this film, would help with the effort. A gentleman from 3M also volunteered to install the film for free.
Finally the film was installed and the balance of the money collected was sent to P-momma as a gift. As one of the donators said,
It's really no wonder why so many people care for her. What is amazing is how she attracted so many hateful and crazy people.
A taste of Crazy:
Her outspokenness toward Quiverfull families and her thoughts about raising freethinking children brought her to the attention of some real religious nuts. Possummomma and her family were attacked online via email, comments and in blogs, and they were stalked in real life.
When Possummomma posted an essay written by her oldest daughter, it attracted the attention of some very venomous Christians in the comments. One of the people who commented was a Baptist preacher named William. William later stalked P-momma's children and P-momma was forced to call the authorities.
And this wasn't the last time. There was an incident that shook the Possum parents badly. Possummomma almost went offline then. I know what happened, and I won't say anything more without Possummomma's permission.
The latest incident involved a preacher by the name of Tom and his wife Nancy. This couple had Quiverfull tendencies - they have six children and Nancy was pregnant with the seventh at the time. Tom created a website that used the "Atheist in a Minivan" blog as an example to his congregation.
It was obvious that Tom and Nancy were more than a little eccentric, and it very quickly became obvious that they justified some forms of child abuse through their religion. Nancy said that the whole family practiced "fasting" for their sins and in order to curry God's favor. Fasting, as an adult, is a mostly harmless practice if done in moderation. But Nancy said that fasting was required for all of her children, including her two youngest - aged 2 and 4 years old. This is obviously a dangerous practice.
Tom also made it clear that he would not "spare the rod" in disciplining his children. This, together with their comments about fasting, led Possummomma to voice her concerns to the authorities. We don't know exactly what happened after that, all the authorities have said is that they've placed some conditions on Tom and Nancy.
The Cult of the Gosselins:
But the incident that knocked "Atheist in a Minivan" offline, the incident that caused Possummomma to go dark, had nothing to do with anything that P-momma said or did. What put P-momma offline was the rabid fan club of a cable reality show on TLC.
The reality show is called "Jon & Kate plus 8", and it details the life of Jon and Kate Gosselin and their 8 children. The reason why the Gosselins are famous is due to Kate's infertility problems. Jon and Kate relied on fertility treatments in order to have children. Kate's first pregnancy resulted in twins. But Kate wanted another child, so the family again went back to fertility treatments. Her next pregnancy resulted in the birth of six more children!
There was really no way that Jon and Kate could afford to raise 8 children, so they've turned their life into a reality show by putting themselves and their children on display to make ends meet. The result is sort of like a mixture of "Big Brother" and the Jackson Five, except no one can sing or dance and nobody gets voted out of the house.
Reactions to the Gosselins are polarized. One blog, called "Gosselins without pity" took issue to the Gosselin philosophy that "God will provide". This conviction is based upon the prosperity gospel which encourages the faithful that they will be given the means to prosper if they - through faith - leap blindly toward their goals without consideration of possible consequences. Although that blog started out nobly it sometimes misses the mark and becomes a "things I don't like about the Gosselins" blog.
On the other side exists a blog called "Gosselins do not need our pity" (GDNNOP) which consists of the aforementioned rabid fan club of Jon and Kate and family. This blog tends to treat the Gosselin reality show like a religion, and anyone who doesn't show proper respect gets slammed - hard.
So how did Possummomma get involved with the GDNNOP fans?
Anti-Serendipity:
It was pure unlucky happenstance. A relative of P-momma is a fan of the Gosselins. She went by the name Penn-mommy. Why she chose that name, I don't know. She also may have exaggerated her relationship to the Gosselins - but that is hearsay to me and I don't know for sure.
What I do know is that Penn-mommy is a somewhat distant relation to Possummomma, and that Penn-mommy's son Jason came down with appendicitis in September. He didn't get treatment in time, and he died on October 2nd. Possummomma's extended family came together for a brief period in Bakersfield, and while there Jason's brother William borrowed Possummomma's wireless account to post online. In trying to deal with his grief, he posted his brother's photograph and a brief tribute site. In posting the photo, William used Possummomma's Picasa account.
But Possummomma was dealing with her own family's problems at the same time. In a terrible coincidence Possum #3 had also come down with appendicitis, and by September 24th, she had her appendix removed. (I've communicated with Possummomma, and P3 is doing well.)
So, here's where the weirdness happens. GDNNOP fans, who were already starting to be suspicious about Penn Mommy, started poking around to see what they could learn. William complained that some of their actions included calls to the hospital where his brother was being treated, and to the coroner to confirm Jason's death. He accused the GDNNOP fans of attempting to impersonate family in order to get information. (Note: I get this info from the GDNNOP blog, I've found an example of William's writing here.)
The crazed fans then added two plus two and got the USA National Debt as a result. Because they traced William to Possummomma's IP address, it was "obvious" that Possummomma faked everything, including Penn-mommy, William, and Jason.
Guinevere, from GDNNOP explained that it was obvious that Penn Mommy and Possummomma are the same person. In fact, she seems to think that Penn mommy and her family are fictional, and that Possummomma is sock puppeting the whole deal, and even suggests that P-momma is faking her own condition with SLE, and that P3's illness was faked. Why? Guinevere "would not guess" but then goes on to suggest that it is all some sort of money scam.
There are 35 comments to Guinevere's post, all thanking several people involved for their great "sleuthing", and condemning the "evil Possummomma / Penn-Mommy". Yet when Possummomma's friends tried to set the record straight they were blocked from commenting.
Supporters of GDNNOP started leaving nasty comments in the "Atheist in a Minivan" blog, and then started leaving nasty comments in Possummomma's Picasa photo album. P-momma set her blog to "private" but wasn't able to stop the nasty comments on Picasa without some drastic measures. Picasa and Blogger are both Google services, and one way to delete a Picasa account is by deleting your google account. When P-momma did that, she lost access to her own blog! (It's a good thing that her co-bloggers still have access.)
Venomous Christians, threats, and stalkers. Enough was enough. Possummomma has been libeled and attacked online, and stalked in real life. This isn't good for her family, or for herself. Stress aggravates the symptoms of SLE, and who needs that? This is one more drama, and P-momma just doesn't have the energy to deal with it. She's offline now, and the rabid Gosselin cult can high-five the fundamentalist preachers with a hearty, "Well Done!"
Evidence:
So what evidence does Guinevere talk about in her post? I'll go through the bits that she's numbered.
1. 5-year old daughter had an appendectomy. That would be P3. I saw the photographic evidence of P3 recovering in her hospital bed. I'm a big fan of P3 - she told me about her "Princess Piggy" when we were at the zoo.
Why didn't Possummomma talk about the death of William in her blog? I dunno. I expect it would be for the same reason why I haven't spoken of the recent death of my uncle-in-law, or the not so recent death of an aunt that I loved very much. I do so out of a respect for privacy, and because it really isn't central to my blog. We each share what we want on our blogs, and leave out the parts that we think are uninteresting, or none of someone else's business.
2. P-momma did call CPS on Tom and Nancy. She also corresponded to CPS via email afterward. She was nice enough to copy a few of us with the CPS response. None of us, including P-momma, knows what the final outcome was of that, we do know that there was something. There was at least enough to keep the investigation open.
3. The "Cease and Desist" spat. This one is really a stretch. Martin Wagner, of the Atheist Community of Austin, and blogger on The Atheist Experience website, wrote a post that totally demolished Yomin Postelnik's article entitled "Logical Proof of the Existence of God, Why Atheism is Not Logically Sound". Martin's post, "Yomin Postelnik, poster-boy for arrogant theistic fractal wrongness" made Yomin pretty upset. Yomin went through an amusing online meltdown and finally committed libel against Martin, and then had the temerity to send Martin a "Cease and Desist" letter! Martin created a blog to explain what was going on, and asked for some help. The online Atheist community was notified, and we passed it around among ourselves. Possummomma made a post about this too.
I wish Guinevere would explain why she thinks this means anything. Does she believe that Possummomma is sock puppeting Martin too? I'm interested because I've heard Martin speak on the Atheist Experience Podcast, and I've heard Possummomma speak too. Just how, exactly, does she get her voice to change?
Guinevere doesn't enumerate all of her evidence. One thing I object to is her implication that Possummomma is faking SLE. I doubt that she's faking because I recently had the chance to visit P-momma and her family as they toured the Fresno Zoo.
I'm not a doctor so I am not able to say if Possummomma does or does not have SLE. But I do know what it is like to live with someone who has a chronic illness. I know that there are good days and bad days, and that it is possible to "juggle" medication in order to have a good day. (But you pay for that, usually with a really bad day!)
I think P-momma may have done something like that, but she still spent the day in a wheelchair conserving her strength while her family enjoyed the zoo. She stayed out of the sun as much as she possibly could, and used UV blocking clothing and sunscreen. I can't diagnose SLE, but I'm curious and observant - and what the sun did to P-momma's skin that day scared me. I hate to think of the painful price she paid for that trip.
Guinevere also said:
Possummomma has rightly pointed out the hypocrisy involved when Christian parents are willing to second guess "God's choice" for them and take fertility drugs when they are infertile. But when the mother is pregnant with too many children the same parents shudder at fetal reduction because it would be against "God's Will".
Possummomma's rant on this subject was about a healthy woman who after conceiving three children normally, persuaded her doctor to give her fertility treatments. The result was another seven babies!
And that post was the only post that I found on the Atheist in a Minivan blog that mentioned the Gosselins in any way. I've read where Possummomma took apart the Duggars, and where she pointed out the problems with other Quiverfull parents - but the Gosselins are not Quiverfull. They're merely some people who figured out a way to make a good living off of their situation by giving up some privacy. But for a Gosselin cultist, a passing "suck on that, Jon and Kate" is serious heresy.
Guinevere says:
You think you feel "queasy" around "fervent atheists"? I assure you that regarding your cult, the feeling is mutual.
Postscript
No, I don't know if Possummomma will ever blog openly again. I'm a member of her private blog, but she hasn't updated that recently, probably because in deleting her Google account, she deleted her own access to it.
Yes, I do talk to her via email, and I keep promising to talk to her via phone, but my life is busy enough that I don't get much opportunity for either. (I seldom have time to talk to my own sister! - sigh -)
"Atheist in a Minivan" is set to private, and is currently controlled by her co-blogger Berlzebub. I don't have access to that blog except through Google's cache, which I used to create the hyperlinks above. Those links may disappear in the future, depending on whether her blog is retained or erased. I hope someone archives her blog, because there is a lot of good stuff in it!
I created a graphic to show my support for Possummomma. If you like the graphic, and want to use it to show your support you are welcome to copy it to your own blog. The image is of "Trichosurus vulpecula" also known as a "Brushtail Possum". The image is CC licensed, and you can find the the Creative Commons license for it in my Public Picasa album.
I used an Australian possum because in Australia their proper name is "possum", not "opossum" as it is here in America. And possum is closer to the wordplay on which Possummomma based her name. (Besides, the Aussie possums are cuter than ours!)
If you read Atheist blogs, you've probably come across the blog "Atheist in a Minivan". If you've recently tried to read it, you'll notice that it has been set to "private".
Here I explain how one of the best family-centered Atheist blogs on the net was hounded offline by a group of people who displayed a cult-like behavior. - Calladus
- - - - -
One of my favorite blogs went dark this week. The following is my attempt to explain what happened, and it is also a rant about the cult-like rabid fan-club that is responsible.Background:
The author of one of my favorite blogs was raised as a Roman Catholic and started her journey toward Atheism sometime before 2004. Before her de-conversion to Atheism she tried hard to be a "good Christian", and even wrote about it in an earlier online journal. But she came to a point where she couldn't stomach the hypocrisy, couldn't resolve biblical contradictions, and finally she came to doubt her religion.
She finally "came out" as an Atheist in 2005, and on Saturday, August 19, 2006 she started a brand new blog called, "Atheist in a Minivan". In this no-frills blog using a canned layout from Blogger she started writing about her life and the lives of her husband and four children under the pseudonym, "Possummomma".
Possummomma knows what it is like to be Catholic, and pointed out when and where Catholics were wrong. She also spoke out against "Quiverfull" families. She has always stuck up for children - I think that at least some of the attacks that P-momma has endured is due in part to her willingness to stick her neck out for the welfare and happiness of children.
On top of that, she isn't well. P-momma has a chronic autoimmune disease called SLE that was until recently a death sentence. Although there still is no cure for SLE its symptoms can be treated, and life can be extended. But the symtoms can be terrible and are triggered by environmental stresses like infection, hormones, stress, and sunlight. Even necessary medications may trigger an SLE outbreak.
Her disease traps her. Even the sunlight through the windows of her home caused SLE symptoms, so she was often imprisoned inside her darkened bedroom.
Writing, and making friends on the Internet became her escape.
And she's a good writer. She's passionate about her children and about the mistreatment of children. She's passionate about religious abuses. Her own experience with religion taught her that in following religious rules she acted in ways that hurt herself and her family. In a way, by teaching her children to think for themselves P-momma seemed to be atoning for the religious damage she did to herself and to others. And we were all lucky enough to read along as she did this.
Possummomma made a lot of friends through her writing. And we slowly found out that she was reluctant to talk about her disease and how she was forced to live. One of her online friends realized she was often trapped inside her bedroom cave and decided to do something about it. Berlzebub researched SLE and found out that it is UV radiation that aggravates the symptoms. He took the initiative to research UV blocking film for windows, and when he found out how much it cost he realized he couldn't afford to help - at least not by himself.
So he spread the word to P-momma's readers and they came through! But there was a small irony - Berlzebub collected too much money. It wasn't his fault, he knew that the price to professionally install film on all of P-momma's windows would be several thousand dollars. What he didn't realize was that 3M, the company that makes this film, would help with the effort. A gentleman from 3M also volunteered to install the film for free.
Finally the film was installed and the balance of the money collected was sent to P-momma as a gift. As one of the donators said,
Nobody donated money because P-Momma 'needed' it. Whether she needed the money was never in discussion. They all did it because they WANTED to help. How and how much is totally up to the people involved.But Possummomma did us proud. She spent a small fraction of the money on UV blocking items that would be useful to her, and then sent the rest of the money on to a family that needed it more.
It's really no wonder why so many people care for her. What is amazing is how she attracted so many hateful and crazy people.
A taste of Crazy:
Her outspokenness toward Quiverfull families and her thoughts about raising freethinking children brought her to the attention of some real religious nuts. Possummomma and her family were attacked online via email, comments and in blogs, and they were stalked in real life.
When Possummomma posted an essay written by her oldest daughter, it attracted the attention of some very venomous Christians in the comments. One of the people who commented was a Baptist preacher named William. William later stalked P-momma's children and P-momma was forced to call the authorities.
And this wasn't the last time. There was an incident that shook the Possum parents badly. Possummomma almost went offline then. I know what happened, and I won't say anything more without Possummomma's permission.
The latest incident involved a preacher by the name of Tom and his wife Nancy. This couple had Quiverfull tendencies - they have six children and Nancy was pregnant with the seventh at the time. Tom created a website that used the "Atheist in a Minivan" blog as an example to his congregation.
It was obvious that Tom and Nancy were more than a little eccentric, and it very quickly became obvious that they justified some forms of child abuse through their religion. Nancy said that the whole family practiced "fasting" for their sins and in order to curry God's favor. Fasting, as an adult, is a mostly harmless practice if done in moderation. But Nancy said that fasting was required for all of her children, including her two youngest - aged 2 and 4 years old. This is obviously a dangerous practice.
Tom also made it clear that he would not "spare the rod" in disciplining his children. This, together with their comments about fasting, led Possummomma to voice her concerns to the authorities. We don't know exactly what happened after that, all the authorities have said is that they've placed some conditions on Tom and Nancy.
The Cult of the Gosselins:
But the incident that knocked "Atheist in a Minivan" offline, the incident that caused Possummomma to go dark, had nothing to do with anything that P-momma said or did. What put P-momma offline was the rabid fan club of a cable reality show on TLC.
The reality show is called "Jon & Kate plus 8", and it details the life of Jon and Kate Gosselin and their 8 children. The reason why the Gosselins are famous is due to Kate's infertility problems. Jon and Kate relied on fertility treatments in order to have children. Kate's first pregnancy resulted in twins. But Kate wanted another child, so the family again went back to fertility treatments. Her next pregnancy resulted in the birth of six more children!
There was really no way that Jon and Kate could afford to raise 8 children, so they've turned their life into a reality show by putting themselves and their children on display to make ends meet. The result is sort of like a mixture of "Big Brother" and the Jackson Five, except no one can sing or dance and nobody gets voted out of the house.
Reactions to the Gosselins are polarized. One blog, called "Gosselins without pity" took issue to the Gosselin philosophy that "God will provide". This conviction is based upon the prosperity gospel which encourages the faithful that they will be given the means to prosper if they - through faith - leap blindly toward their goals without consideration of possible consequences. Although that blog started out nobly it sometimes misses the mark and becomes a "things I don't like about the Gosselins" blog.
On the other side exists a blog called "Gosselins do not need our pity" (GDNNOP) which consists of the aforementioned rabid fan club of Jon and Kate and family. This blog tends to treat the Gosselin reality show like a religion, and anyone who doesn't show proper respect gets slammed - hard.
So how did Possummomma get involved with the GDNNOP fans?
Anti-Serendipity:
It was pure unlucky happenstance. A relative of P-momma is a fan of the Gosselins. She went by the name Penn-mommy. Why she chose that name, I don't know. She also may have exaggerated her relationship to the Gosselins - but that is hearsay to me and I don't know for sure.
What I do know is that Penn-mommy is a somewhat distant relation to Possummomma, and that Penn-mommy's son Jason came down with appendicitis in September. He didn't get treatment in time, and he died on October 2nd. Possummomma's extended family came together for a brief period in Bakersfield, and while there Jason's brother William borrowed Possummomma's wireless account to post online. In trying to deal with his grief, he posted his brother's photograph and a brief tribute site. In posting the photo, William used Possummomma's Picasa account.
But Possummomma was dealing with her own family's problems at the same time. In a terrible coincidence Possum #3 had also come down with appendicitis, and by September 24th, she had her appendix removed. (I've communicated with Possummomma, and P3 is doing well.)
So, here's where the weirdness happens. GDNNOP fans, who were already starting to be suspicious about Penn Mommy, started poking around to see what they could learn. William complained that some of their actions included calls to the hospital where his brother was being treated, and to the coroner to confirm Jason's death. He accused the GDNNOP fans of attempting to impersonate family in order to get information. (Note: I get this info from the GDNNOP blog, I've found an example of William's writing here.)
The crazed fans then added two plus two and got the USA National Debt as a result. Because they traced William to Possummomma's IP address, it was "obvious" that Possummomma faked everything, including Penn-mommy, William, and Jason.
Guinevere, from GDNNOP explained that it was obvious that Penn Mommy and Possummomma are the same person. In fact, she seems to think that Penn mommy and her family are fictional, and that Possummomma is sock puppeting the whole deal, and even suggests that P-momma is faking her own condition with SLE, and that P3's illness was faked. Why? Guinevere "would not guess" but then goes on to suggest that it is all some sort of money scam.
There are 35 comments to Guinevere's post, all thanking several people involved for their great "sleuthing", and condemning the "evil Possummomma / Penn-Mommy". Yet when Possummomma's friends tried to set the record straight they were blocked from commenting.
Supporters of GDNNOP started leaving nasty comments in the "Atheist in a Minivan" blog, and then started leaving nasty comments in Possummomma's Picasa photo album. P-momma set her blog to "private" but wasn't able to stop the nasty comments on Picasa without some drastic measures. Picasa and Blogger are both Google services, and one way to delete a Picasa account is by deleting your google account. When P-momma did that, she lost access to her own blog! (It's a good thing that her co-bloggers still have access.)
Venomous Christians, threats, and stalkers. Enough was enough. Possummomma has been libeled and attacked online, and stalked in real life. This isn't good for her family, or for herself. Stress aggravates the symptoms of SLE, and who needs that? This is one more drama, and P-momma just doesn't have the energy to deal with it. She's offline now, and the rabid Gosselin cult can high-five the fundamentalist preachers with a hearty, "Well Done!"
Evidence:
So what evidence does Guinevere talk about in her post? I'll go through the bits that she's numbered.
1. 5-year old daughter had an appendectomy. That would be P3. I saw the photographic evidence of P3 recovering in her hospital bed. I'm a big fan of P3 - she told me about her "Princess Piggy" when we were at the zoo.
Why didn't Possummomma talk about the death of William in her blog? I dunno. I expect it would be for the same reason why I haven't spoken of the recent death of my uncle-in-law, or the not so recent death of an aunt that I loved very much. I do so out of a respect for privacy, and because it really isn't central to my blog. We each share what we want on our blogs, and leave out the parts that we think are uninteresting, or none of someone else's business.
2. P-momma did call CPS on Tom and Nancy. She also corresponded to CPS via email afterward. She was nice enough to copy a few of us with the CPS response. None of us, including P-momma, knows what the final outcome was of that, we do know that there was something. There was at least enough to keep the investigation open.
3. The "Cease and Desist" spat. This one is really a stretch. Martin Wagner, of the Atheist Community of Austin, and blogger on The Atheist Experience website, wrote a post that totally demolished Yomin Postelnik's article entitled "Logical Proof of the Existence of God, Why Atheism is Not Logically Sound". Martin's post, "Yomin Postelnik, poster-boy for arrogant theistic fractal wrongness" made Yomin pretty upset. Yomin went through an amusing online meltdown and finally committed libel against Martin, and then had the temerity to send Martin a "Cease and Desist" letter! Martin created a blog to explain what was going on, and asked for some help. The online Atheist community was notified, and we passed it around among ourselves. Possummomma made a post about this too.
I wish Guinevere would explain why she thinks this means anything. Does she believe that Possummomma is sock puppeting Martin too? I'm interested because I've heard Martin speak on the Atheist Experience Podcast, and I've heard Possummomma speak too. Just how, exactly, does she get her voice to change?
Guinevere doesn't enumerate all of her evidence. One thing I object to is her implication that Possummomma is faking SLE. I doubt that she's faking because I recently had the chance to visit P-momma and her family as they toured the Fresno Zoo.
I'm not a doctor so I am not able to say if Possummomma does or does not have SLE. But I do know what it is like to live with someone who has a chronic illness. I know that there are good days and bad days, and that it is possible to "juggle" medication in order to have a good day. (But you pay for that, usually with a really bad day!)
I think P-momma may have done something like that, but she still spent the day in a wheelchair conserving her strength while her family enjoyed the zoo. She stayed out of the sun as much as she possibly could, and used UV blocking clothing and sunscreen. I can't diagnose SLE, but I'm curious and observant - and what the sun did to P-momma's skin that day scared me. I hate to think of the painful price she paid for that trip.
Guinevere also said:
Reading through this woman’s blog, she appears at times to be fairly normal. The subject of the blog, incidentally, is one that is certainly incongruous with the persona that Penn Mommy presented – this blogger is a fervent atheist (which made me a bit queasy, considering how many times PM and “William” entreated posters to pray for “Jason”). She appears to have issues with certain choices the Gosselins have made - possibly their religious devotion and the fact that they chose to have multiples. This may explain how she became involved in the Gosselin blogosphere and made the decision to create Penn Mommy.Jon and Kate didn't "choose" to have multiples. According to their appearance on Oprah Winfrey, after their first two children Kate wanted one more. Six more children were a shock!
Possummomma has rightly pointed out the hypocrisy involved when Christian parents are willing to second guess "God's choice" for them and take fertility drugs when they are infertile. But when the mother is pregnant with too many children the same parents shudder at fetal reduction because it would be against "God's Will".
Possummomma's rant on this subject was about a healthy woman who after conceiving three children normally, persuaded her doctor to give her fertility treatments. The result was another seven babies!
And that post was the only post that I found on the Atheist in a Minivan blog that mentioned the Gosselins in any way. I've read where Possummomma took apart the Duggars, and where she pointed out the problems with other Quiverfull parents - but the Gosselins are not Quiverfull. They're merely some people who figured out a way to make a good living off of their situation by giving up some privacy. But for a Gosselin cultist, a passing "suck on that, Jon and Kate" is serious heresy.
Guinevere says:
Doubtlessly, we will be accused of being no better than those who have stalked and harassed the Gosselins.No, you are worse. Because not only are you and your fellow fans guilty of stalking, but you are all guilty of gross negligence due to stupidity. The members of the GDNNOP cult have cloaked their crotchety pettiness behind a mangy merkin of supercilious righteousness, and when their wild accusations miss their mark and hit an innocent bystander no one feels anything but smug.
You think you feel "queasy" around "fervent atheists"? I assure you that regarding your cult, the feeling is mutual.
Postscript
No, I don't know if Possummomma will ever blog openly again. I'm a member of her private blog, but she hasn't updated that recently, probably because in deleting her Google account, she deleted her own access to it.Yes, I do talk to her via email, and I keep promising to talk to her via phone, but my life is busy enough that I don't get much opportunity for either. (I seldom have time to talk to my own sister! - sigh -)
"Atheist in a Minivan" is set to private, and is currently controlled by her co-blogger Berlzebub. I don't have access to that blog except through Google's cache, which I used to create the hyperlinks above. Those links may disappear in the future, depending on whether her blog is retained or erased. I hope someone archives her blog, because there is a lot of good stuff in it!
I created a graphic to show my support for Possummomma. If you like the graphic, and want to use it to show your support you are welcome to copy it to your own blog. The image is of "Trichosurus vulpecula" also known as a "Brushtail Possum". The image is CC licensed, and you can find the the Creative Commons license for it in my Public Picasa album.
I used an Australian possum because in Australia their proper name is "possum", not "opossum" as it is here in America. And possum is closer to the wordplay on which Possummomma based her name. (Besides, the Aussie possums are cuter than ours!)
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Labels: atheism
By Marlene Winell, Ph.D.
I get this question so frequently, I’ve decided to make a better effort to reply. To be honest, I don’t like the question because it presumes we know what those words mean. Here are some responses, touching on more or less serious aspects of the topic.
1. Which god? Do you mean Zeus, Baal, Athena, Shiva, Allah, Jehovah, or some other? If you mean one of those, then no. I am not a theist. I don’t believe in an individual being that created and now controls the world.
2. What is belief? Is it a cognitive conclusion that I have reached basic on logical consideration of evidence? That would assume I have access to all the information, and I do not. Is it an emotional feeling for something beyond myself? Well, my emotions vary, and some days are hopeful, other days are dark. Emotions are a rocky basis for “belief.” Do I make a leap of faith, not knowing anything really, but simply wanting to “believe,” and putting stock in a “scripture” to give it support? This is also difficult because knowing about the origins of “scripture,” I know the complexity; they were not simply dictated. Also, the strength of my blind faith can also vary and I’m not sure how completely I am supposed to convince myself in order to say I “believe.”
3. The concept of “God” usually meant by this question is some sort of being that exists “out there.” The god of the Bible is very separate, superior to humans, but anthropomorphic in many ways. Other gods are also considered “out there” and have controlling powers we do not have. A more New Age notion of god includes “the divine” in all of us, and still involves the notion of “spirit” infusing people. There is an assumption in most approaches to spirituality of a kind of “force,” which can be called by different names, but which is a thing in a universe of other things. As such, I do not resonate with this idea of “god” as an entity.
2. What is belief? Is it a cognitive conclusion that I have reached basic on logical consideration of evidence?4. If I must use the concept at all, I would equate it with the “nature of being.” This is close to “ground of being,” a phrase coined by John Robinson many years ago in Honest to God. For me it involves a perception of existence grounded in the profound science of modern physics. Most ordinary people do not know much about this. Yet, we now know from findings in both relativity theory and quantum physics, that the universe is much more strange and incredible than we ever realized. It calls for massive humility because there are things no one understands, yet we now have good reason to question all of our basic assumptions about “reality.” The difference is bigger than finding out the world is not flat. We have evidence for questioning our ideas about matter, linear time, cause and effect, and more. String theorists agree there are eleven dimensions. Yet the general population operates all day every day assuming things that are completely out of date. The knowledge has not reached the masses. This is akin to having everyone act as if the earth is still flat. The issues are intensely profound, with implications for everything we do. The big words for me are “mystery” and “possibility.” Feelings are humility, awe, and excitement. There is no religious description of “god” that matches the grandeur of the universe as it is – elusive, ever-changing, impossibly mind-boggling. And this includes us. We are part of the fabric; there is no separation. If this is believing in god, then by all means, a hundred times YES! But I’m still not drawn to the language.
A couple of quotes that I find consistent with this:
5. Dispensing with the “god” word, it makes a little more sense for me to address “spirituality,” although this word has often meant a focus on other-worldly things. I prefer to describe spirituality as a way of living which is here-and-now. These are attributes rather than a definition. They involve feelings and perceptions and experiences which depend on openness. This openness can be chosen and developed. Rather than escaping into a different realm, I think of spirituality in terms of how we live our lives – the choices, the consciousness, the texture of daily life. There are several aspects of this:
Accord. This is the experience of feeling attuned with the rest of existence - a feeling of belonging on earth, being a part of the rest of nature, and in harmony with everything around. When you are in accord, you move along with the vast river of evolutionary change, feeling connected in a fundamental way with the harmony and power of the whole. You feel as though you are tapping into a rich resource that is beyond you, much larger than yourself. Your inner spring of god-within connects with the vastness of god-beyond, a "deeper power" rather than "higher power," a subterranean aquifer connecting all of life. This produces a sense of trust and safety, a knowledge that you fit, that you have a place.
Awareness. With awareness you are alive and awake, fully experiencing life. This means being totally grounded in the here and now. Your sensory experiences are vivid, and you notice what is happening when it is happening, both around and inside you. You do not reject uncomfortable experiences or deny pain; you are open and embracing of all that life has to offer. This makes it possible for you to enjoy things more intensely and to learn from difficulties. You are not trying to be on some other plane of existence, but are willing and happy to be here now, like a curious child.
Growth. Growth is a natural process. You are not static or inert; you are a changing, growing being. And your experiences can propel you to develop further. As a plant needs the attention of water and food to grow, you need to attend to your needs and consciously make opportunities to learn and change. This aspect of spirituality is active, complementing the more receptive elements of accord and awareness. As humans we are granted the exciting option of making conscious loyal commitments to move in positive directions. Learning will often occur anyway, as a neglected plant will often survive, but informed with a sense of accord and awareness, you can take action on your own spiritual behalf.
Transcendence. There are moments of awe for us in life, those times of being overwhelmed with wonder at beauty, or love, or natural power. At these moments you get clues about the immensity of the cosmos, like pinpricks in the veil around your limited consciousness. You are humbled and thrilled as you gaze at a sunset or a torrential waterfall. A moment of pure love can be ecstatic. Let your vision extend into the night sky, and you may experience a blissful dissolving of your individual ego. Not needing to understand or control, you can experience a sense of total Mystery. These moments are gifts that reflect your spiritual capacity, gifts that become more available as you open to your sense of the ultimate. This is not ultimate in the sense of above or better, but simply beyond your usual mode of consciousness. These are moments of realization knowing that the sense you have of “god” within is not only in contact with but one and the same as the transcendent “god”-beyond. You are a wave in the ocean, individual in a sense but also part of something much bigger – the immensely huge and powerful ocean of existence. You don’t understand and you don’t need to understand. All of this is multiverses away from “believing in God.”
So even though I would have to say I don’t believe in God and I am an atheist in the true definition of the word, ie, not a theist, I obviously feel compelled to question and reclaim the language being used and make this rather inadequate stab at describing my lived experience. It’s a bit defensive and that’s because the stereotype of the cold, shallow, hedonistic, selfish atheist needs to be challenged. In my opinion, it’s all about how we live, and not what we “believe.”
What do you think?
Kind regards,
Marlene Winell, Ph.D., psychologist and author of "Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion" and facilitator for retreats for religious recovery called "Release and Reclaim" The next one is Aug. 15-17 in Berkeley, CA
I get this question so frequently, I’ve decided to make a better effort to reply. To be honest, I don’t like the question because it presumes we know what those words mean. Here are some responses, touching on more or less serious aspects of the topic.
1. Which god? Do you mean Zeus, Baal, Athena, Shiva, Allah, Jehovah, or some other? If you mean one of those, then no. I am not a theist. I don’t believe in an individual being that created and now controls the world.
2. What is belief? Is it a cognitive conclusion that I have reached basic on logical consideration of evidence? That would assume I have access to all the information, and I do not. Is it an emotional feeling for something beyond myself? Well, my emotions vary, and some days are hopeful, other days are dark. Emotions are a rocky basis for “belief.” Do I make a leap of faith, not knowing anything really, but simply wanting to “believe,” and putting stock in a “scripture” to give it support? This is also difficult because knowing about the origins of “scripture,” I know the complexity; they were not simply dictated. Also, the strength of my blind faith can also vary and I’m not sure how completely I am supposed to convince myself in order to say I “believe.”
3. The concept of “God” usually meant by this question is some sort of being that exists “out there.” The god of the Bible is very separate, superior to humans, but anthropomorphic in many ways. Other gods are also considered “out there” and have controlling powers we do not have. A more New Age notion of god includes “the divine” in all of us, and still involves the notion of “spirit” infusing people. There is an assumption in most approaches to spirituality of a kind of “force,” which can be called by different names, but which is a thing in a universe of other things. As such, I do not resonate with this idea of “god” as an entity.
2. What is belief? Is it a cognitive conclusion that I have reached basic on logical consideration of evidence?4. If I must use the concept at all, I would equate it with the “nature of being.” This is close to “ground of being,” a phrase coined by John Robinson many years ago in Honest to God. For me it involves a perception of existence grounded in the profound science of modern physics. Most ordinary people do not know much about this. Yet, we now know from findings in both relativity theory and quantum physics, that the universe is much more strange and incredible than we ever realized. It calls for massive humility because there are things no one understands, yet we now have good reason to question all of our basic assumptions about “reality.” The difference is bigger than finding out the world is not flat. We have evidence for questioning our ideas about matter, linear time, cause and effect, and more. String theorists agree there are eleven dimensions. Yet the general population operates all day every day assuming things that are completely out of date. The knowledge has not reached the masses. This is akin to having everyone act as if the earth is still flat. The issues are intensely profound, with implications for everything we do. The big words for me are “mystery” and “possibility.” Feelings are humility, awe, and excitement. There is no religious description of “god” that matches the grandeur of the universe as it is – elusive, ever-changing, impossibly mind-boggling. And this includes us. We are part of the fabric; there is no separation. If this is believing in god, then by all means, a hundred times YES! But I’m still not drawn to the language.
A couple of quotes that I find consistent with this:
“How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, ‘This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant’? Instead they say, ‘No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.’ A religion, old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the Universe as revealed by modern science might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths.”`
-Carl Sagan
“I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
-Albert Einstein
5. Dispensing with the “god” word, it makes a little more sense for me to address “spirituality,” although this word has often meant a focus on other-worldly things. I prefer to describe spirituality as a way of living which is here-and-now. These are attributes rather than a definition. They involve feelings and perceptions and experiences which depend on openness. This openness can be chosen and developed. Rather than escaping into a different realm, I think of spirituality in terms of how we live our lives – the choices, the consciousness, the texture of daily life. There are several aspects of this:
Accord. This is the experience of feeling attuned with the rest of existence - a feeling of belonging on earth, being a part of the rest of nature, and in harmony with everything around. When you are in accord, you move along with the vast river of evolutionary change, feeling connected in a fundamental way with the harmony and power of the whole. You feel as though you are tapping into a rich resource that is beyond you, much larger than yourself. Your inner spring of god-within connects with the vastness of god-beyond, a "deeper power" rather than "higher power," a subterranean aquifer connecting all of life. This produces a sense of trust and safety, a knowledge that you fit, that you have a place.
Awareness. With awareness you are alive and awake, fully experiencing life. This means being totally grounded in the here and now. Your sensory experiences are vivid, and you notice what is happening when it is happening, both around and inside you. You do not reject uncomfortable experiences or deny pain; you are open and embracing of all that life has to offer. This makes it possible for you to enjoy things more intensely and to learn from difficulties. You are not trying to be on some other plane of existence, but are willing and happy to be here now, like a curious child.
Growth. Growth is a natural process. You are not static or inert; you are a changing, growing being. And your experiences can propel you to develop further. As a plant needs the attention of water and food to grow, you need to attend to your needs and consciously make opportunities to learn and change. This aspect of spirituality is active, complementing the more receptive elements of accord and awareness. As humans we are granted the exciting option of making conscious loyal commitments to move in positive directions. Learning will often occur anyway, as a neglected plant will often survive, but informed with a sense of accord and awareness, you can take action on your own spiritual behalf.
Transcendence. There are moments of awe for us in life, those times of being overwhelmed with wonder at beauty, or love, or natural power. At these moments you get clues about the immensity of the cosmos, like pinpricks in the veil around your limited consciousness. You are humbled and thrilled as you gaze at a sunset or a torrential waterfall. A moment of pure love can be ecstatic. Let your vision extend into the night sky, and you may experience a blissful dissolving of your individual ego. Not needing to understand or control, you can experience a sense of total Mystery. These moments are gifts that reflect your spiritual capacity, gifts that become more available as you open to your sense of the ultimate. This is not ultimate in the sense of above or better, but simply beyond your usual mode of consciousness. These are moments of realization knowing that the sense you have of “god” within is not only in contact with but one and the same as the transcendent “god”-beyond. You are a wave in the ocean, individual in a sense but also part of something much bigger – the immensely huge and powerful ocean of existence. You don’t understand and you don’t need to understand. All of this is multiverses away from “believing in God.”
So even though I would have to say I don’t believe in God and I am an atheist in the true definition of the word, ie, not a theist, I obviously feel compelled to question and reclaim the language being used and make this rather inadequate stab at describing my lived experience. It’s a bit defensive and that’s because the stereotype of the cold, shallow, hedonistic, selfish atheist needs to be challenged. In my opinion, it’s all about how we live, and not what we “believe.”
What do you think?
Kind regards,
Marlene Winell, Ph.D., psychologist and author of "Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion" and facilitator for retreats for religious recovery called "Release and Reclaim" The next one is Aug. 15-17 in Berkeley, CA
Labels: atheism, deconversion, exChristian, exfundamentalist, exmormon, expentecostal, recovery from religion, skeptic, spiritual abuse
Hello everybody,
A while ago I sent you a notice about this weekend workshop for recovering from religion. I'm pleased to say that we have some space available for some "pay what you can" participants. The room and board would still be $125 but beyond that is negotiable. So get in touch soon if you'd like to come!
Warmly,
Marlene Winell
Here's the notice again.
LEAVING YOUR RELIGION?
It's not the end of the world! Join us at a recovery retreat.
"RELEASE AND RECLAIM"
August 15-17, 2008, with Dr. Marlene Winell
Do you feel alone in your struggle for healing? Come to a supportive and powerful weekend with others who can understand you -- an oasis from dogmatic teachings and judgmental groups. We'll rant and rave, tell our stories, discuss the issues, visualize, role-play, dance and draw – whatever it takes to think for ourselves and reclaim our lives. A joyful, empowered life is your birthright and you can start now.
WHEN: FRIDAY, Aug. 15, 7PM - SUNDAY, Aug. 17, 3PM.
WHERE: A beautiful house in Berkeley, California,
with hot tub and other amenities.
COST: $320 for the workshop, $125 for room and board. Financial need considered & options available.
TO REGISTER: Call 510-292-0509 or send an email to recoveryfromreligion@gmail.com. Register soon as group size is limited.
Dr. Marlene Winell is a psychologist & author of "Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists & Others Leaving their Religion." She has a practice in Berkeley & also counsels individuals by phone. For more info, mailing list, comments about retreats, & Youtube link, visit: www.marlenewinell.net. Or call Dr. Winell for a complimentary discussion about your interest.
A while ago I sent you a notice about this weekend workshop for recovering from religion. I'm pleased to say that we have some space available for some "pay what you can" participants. The room and board would still be $125 but beyond that is negotiable. So get in touch soon if you'd like to come!
Warmly,
Marlene Winell
Here's the notice again.
LEAVING YOUR RELIGION?
It's not the end of the world! Join us at a recovery retreat.
"RELEASE AND RECLAIM"
August 15-17, 2008, with Dr. Marlene Winell
Do you feel alone in your struggle for healing? Come to a supportive and powerful weekend with others who can understand you -- an oasis from dogmatic teachings and judgmental groups. We'll rant and rave, tell our stories, discuss the issues, visualize, role-play, dance and draw – whatever it takes to think for ourselves and reclaim our lives. A joyful, empowered life is your birthright and you can start now.
WHEN: FRIDAY, Aug. 15, 7PM - SUNDAY, Aug. 17, 3PM.
WHERE: A beautiful house in Berkeley, California,
with hot tub and other amenities.
COST: $320 for the workshop, $125 for room and board. Financial need considered & options available.
TO REGISTER: Call 510-292-0509 or send an email to recoveryfromreligion@gmail.com. Register soon as group size is limited.
Dr. Marlene Winell is a psychologist & author of "Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists & Others Leaving their Religion." She has a practice in Berkeley & also counsels individuals by phone. For more info, mailing list, comments about retreats, & Youtube link, visit: www.marlenewinell.net. Or call Dr. Winell for a complimentary discussion about your interest.
Labels: atheism, deconversion, exChristian, exfundamentalist, exmormon, expentecostal, recovery from religion, skeptic, spiritual abuse
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