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encouraging ex-Christians
Rants and articles submitted by and for ex-Christians
By Sailorfraud
The Bible says God is almighty who answers your prayers. So how do you know if God is real other than that faith crap? Try the power of prayer when an earthly situation occurs which is beyond your control and only an almighty God who created the universe and all life can control.
Suppose you or a close family member has a terminal disease like cancer which cannot be medically cured? A certain time line is given, so like all hopeful human beings, you humbly and diligently pray to the almighty God who says in the Bible he answers prayers. Time and reality passes, the disease takes it's toll, and your prayers go unanswered.
Maybe one in a million may be saved, but looking at a 99.9999% failure rate for prayer is evidence that God does not exist. Now, compare it to an atheist who suffers the same terminal disease and wishes for healing. The same 99.9999% failure rate occurs.
Now compare it to a devout Muslim suffering the same terminal disease and prays to his/her god for healing, and still results in a 99.9999% failure rate. Similarly, the Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, etc... all face 99.9999% failure rates.
Doesn't this indicate you you that there is no God? Perhaps one of the numerous worshiped gods do exist, but wouldn't that omnipotent god produce better than a 99.9999% failure rate, or else what is the purpose of worshiping that god if he doesn't answer your prayers? Doesn't common logic and sense exist anymore?
The Bible says God is almighty who answers your prayers. So how do you know if God is real other than that faith crap? Try the power of prayer when an earthly situation occurs which is beyond your control and only an almighty God who created the universe and all life can control.
Suppose you or a close family member has a terminal disease like cancer which cannot be medically cured? A certain time line is given, so like all hopeful human beings, you humbly and diligently pray to the almighty God who says in the Bible he answers prayers. Time and reality passes, the disease takes it's toll, and your prayers go unanswered.
Maybe one in a million may be saved, but looking at a 99.9999% failure rate for prayer is evidence that God does not exist. Now, compare it to an atheist who suffers the same terminal disease and wishes for healing. The same 99.9999% failure rate occurs.
Now compare it to a devout Muslim suffering the same terminal disease and prays to his/her god for healing, and still results in a 99.9999% failure rate. Similarly, the Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, etc... all face 99.9999% failure rates.
Doesn't this indicate you you that there is no God? Perhaps one of the numerous worshiped gods do exist, but wouldn't that omnipotent god produce better than a 99.9999% failure rate, or else what is the purpose of worshiping that god if he doesn't answer your prayers? Doesn't common logic and sense exist anymore?
"Prayer makes one feel like they have done something, when in all reality, they have done nothing."
Prayer works because people believe it works. In reality, the things prayed for have a 50-50 chance of being answered. But when someone believes if they pray for, say, a new job and they have to stay at the old job instead, they believe their prayers were answered nonetheless.
I don't believe in prayer and also don't believe any prayers have ever been answered anywhere in the world. Show me some proof and I will change my mind. Of course, I have been saying this for years now and haven't seen anything to change my mind. I don't expect anything to change because their would have to be a god to answer prayers and there are no gods. Only believers. That people can't see this is unbelievable to me.
Suppose your daughter is out driving through Indianapolis; she returns safely; thank god.
She narrowly misses an accident; thank god.
She is involved in a fender-bender; thank god it wasn't worse.
She totals the car; thank god for sparing her life.
She is injured slightly; thank god she is okay.
She is crippled for life; thank god she is alive.
She is dead; praise god, who giveth and taketh away.
We all know how this works. If everything that happens is the will of god, then how is god ever verifiable?
Is there a name for this fallacy.
And Sailorfraud, you're throwing out numbers here without any references. I'm assuming you made these numbers up to prove a point, but it doesn't work that way. And actually, it's been shown that prayer does help when attempting to overcome diseases. The mechanism by which it works isn't totally clear, but it's most likely psychological. Our mental health is closely tied to our physical health (afterall, our mind is part of our physical bodies).
But is prayer to the Hindu gods any more effective than prayer to Yahweh or Allah? Doubtful, since I don't believe these gods exist and it's the state of mind that makes healing "miracles" occur.
As I say, I do not think christians really believe half of what they spout off about from the pulpits.
I'm not certain it falls precisely into this category, but it's remarkably similar to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy: "God answers all prayers of pure faith, if God didn't answer it, it wasn't a prayer of pure faith."
One of my favorite lines I have read as of late had to do with medical miracles. It stated that anything that we call a medical miracle is simply a highly unlikely, but statistically possible outcome. If a patient has a one in 10,000 chance of survival, one in 10,000 will beat the odds plain and simple just as one in 10,000 will die from a virtually mortality free proceedure such a a tonsilectomy. It works both ways.
And actually, it's been shown that prayer does help when attempting to overcome diseases. The mechanism by which it works isn't totally clear, but it's most likely psychological. Our mental health is closely tied to our physical health (afterall, our mind is part of our physical bodies).
You better clarify these studies. As in a true double blind experiment, those being prayed for would have no idea anyone is praying for them, and those praying have no idea who they are praying for.
This is to eliminate the placebo effect and any other inadvertent bias by the patient, doctor, and researchers.
When you speak of the placebo effect, then either the patients are actively engaged in prayer or they know they are being prayed for.
I believe it has been shown in studies that known prayer may be about as effective as the patient performing meditation or other mental exercises.
As mentioned by a few here already--the only capacity prayer might work in is as a placebo. Similar to how a sugar pill might "work" as a "cure-all" for some people, provided they don't know it's sugar. Enlighten the subject that this "miraculous" drug they've been taking all along isn't valid, and... dInG dOnG!..no more "miracles".
'Funny how that works.
I am the author of this post. No video, multimedia, expensive props, or crap to confuse or deceive. The message is so simple, but as George Orwell once stated, "To see in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle".
That's my point, whether you pray to Yahweh, Allah, Brahman, etc... for healing, the reality is that you will receive the same results and outcome as praying to a rock, tree, or a dead God like Zeus.
"And actually, it's been shown that prayer does help when attempting to overcome diseases. The mechanism by which it works isn't totally clear, but it's most likely psychological. Our mental health is closely tied to our physical health (afterall, our mind is part of our physical bodies). "
I remember reading that Yoga has proven to help heal people because it puts people's mind at ease and connnects a calm healthy mental state to your physical state.
I think the calm prayers may benefit with their health, but on the other hand, the angry shouting religious fanatics easily face degraded health and more problems. It really has more to to with putting your mental state in good health - which again proves there is no god.
they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well
Christians who are faithful to the words of Christ should try putting his words to the test; but I have to add a caveat: I am not to be held responsible for any adverse outcome from drinking deadly poison. But they can try praying for the sick in hospitals and then evaluate the outcome. One thing is for sure: we would not require hospitals, doctors, nurses, medicines etc if prayer really works.
The placebo effect has repeatedly shown that when people put their faith in sugar pills often they receive healing.
I believe that the fact that the object of the our faith is irrelevant proves that, at least when it comes to physical healing, our brain is obedient and does what we tell it to do.
What if someone at a horribly low point in their life who's only hope is faith in God reads this?
Do you really want to take that away from them?
I have experienced the power of prayer and I can safely assure you that it was no "placebo" affect and I'm the biggest skeptic of them all.
And I have known of people who were healed of terminal and incurable diseases through prayer. What do you say to that?
Perhaps the reason why God doesn't answer your prayers is that your prayers are nothing more than 2 minute rants demanding God come and fix it up.
You have to first of all get over yourself if you want god to do anything for you and secondly you have to believe and be PATIENT.
The same thing I say to every Christian who says that: show me the evidence.
Surely with God miraculously healing so many people, there should be little need for doctors or hospitals anymore. I mean, if prayer is such a wonderfully powerful thing, I would think that two or three Christians could get together, agree that just one local hospital should be emptied by healing all those within, and then just pray that it happen!
If two or three thousand Christians get together and agree on praying that everyone is just one small town hospital is miraculously healed, what do you think will happen?
I dare any church, anywhere, at any time, to try and pray a hospital empty. Even if it were only to last ONE DAY, I'd sit up and take notice.
Jesus said his disciples would do greater things than even he did. Yet the hospitals remain brimming with business.
Nothing fails like prayer.
You bible believing, born again, praying fools, got George Bush elected president so he could start a war with Muslims, and show his daddy how it ought to be done.
OK, now we have 30 or 40 thousand young kids trying to survive with severe brain injures, and missing limbs, and it ain't over yet.
I have a suggestion for you, since you have the praying thing down pat. Before you and your prayer group start on emptying out the regular hospitals of the injured and diseased, as the webmaster suggested, why don't you start at the V/A hospitals, specifically the brain injury and amputee wards. It would be like "payback" for your part in causing their predicament in the first place.
Go around to all of your friends and ask them if they voted Republican, and if they say yes, recruit them into your prayer army.
When you get all of the young men and women put back together, you can get God to help America find a solution to another of George's favorite boondoggles.
How can we as a country afford to give free health care, and generally look after 30,000,000 illegal aliens, when they are sending most of the money they make here back to their countries of origin, and contribute nothing to our society?
Dan (Anonymous, there is sooooo much to pray for)
I've been a Christian for over 20 years. I realized that the crime, alcoholism, drug abuse, divorce, suicide, and dirt factor rates of Christians are equal or sometimes greater than that of the non-Christian population.
I knew a faithful Christian couple in their early 20s alomst ready to marry. One day, the man got a gun, shot his girlfriend, then shot himself dead for no apparent reason.
I knew pastors who had to resign and even wre arrested for embezzlement, adultery, assult, and pornography charges.
I knew a 26 year old devout Christian woman who had cancer. Every week, the church prayed for healing, but the cancer continued its normal course. After one year, she died and the prayer had absolutely no effect.
Anonymous, my point is that this shit will happen anyway in the world. Whether you pray to your god Yahweh/Jehovah, or to Allah, Buddha, or to the tree or sun god, or to the stars in the night (which is where every religion evolved - astrology), the crime, murder, suicide, injustices, disease, etc... will continue.
Face the facts - there is no God.
I have encountered your kind. Your approach is that we are childish and petulant and we will not allow god to have his way. We are spoiled children, demanding and peevish.
Alright anonymous, I am going to hand this back to you, and see how you like it.
You are a sorry weakling and a sorry coward. How many years have you spent grovelling on your knees before your sorry jew god, which your sorry xristian religion has kept mummified all these centuries? Hmmmm? How many years? How many years have you spent in your pathetic prayers, and making excuses when no answer came?
I'll tell you something, asshole.......the people you are speaking to simply had the guts to get off their knees. They grew up. Why don't you try it?
And what the fucking hell do you mean by "2 minute rants"? Do you think we are here because we threw a tantrum for 2 minutes and the jew wouldn't wipe our asses? Listen, you adolescent piece of shit, some of us have been xristians since before you were old enough to jerk off, or before you knew you had a dick, or before you knew what to do with it. Look, shit, we just grew up. Now pull your pants up and get out of here.
Reference the first 3 lines of your post, do I want to take away someone's faith during a low point in their lives. Yes, I would, without a moment's hesitation. They would have to take adult responsibility for the first time; they would have to grow up, instead of whimpering to the jewzoo.
It would not be a problem if all you jew babies would just stay in your collective nuthouse, but you keep coming out to vote. Voting is a kind of prayer to you. You cannot take responsibility like a citizen, you have to vote for jewzoo. Go back to your nuthouse.
With all due respect, this misses the point. No one is denying that prayer "might" work as a placebo. The point is, that IF prayer works in such a way, it's solely because of the power of suggestion....not because of some external "source" influencing the outcome..i.e.."God". Obviously, the whole premise of "prayer" is that it's a direct line of communication to whichever "God" the subject subscribes to.
The placebo effect has repeatedly shown that when people put their faith in sugar pills often they receive healing.
Again, this misrepresents the placebo effect. If a sugar pill "heals" someone, it's because the patient didn't know they were taking sugar pills. That's the whole point....to essentially "fool" the patient into "believing" it works. Furthermore, I highly doubt that anyone would pay 8, 9, 10 dollars per "pill" while knowing it's only "sugar", when they could just buy their own sugar much cheaper at the local grocery store....or hell, steal it from Denny's(but Christians wouldn't do that, right?) lol.
I believe that the fact that the object of the our faith is irrelevant proves that, at least when it comes to physical healing, our brain is obedient and does what we tell it to do.
A positive mental outlook helps, true...but if "our brains" always did what we "tell" them to do, physical ailments and disease would've been obsolete long ago.
She knows I am an atheist, but tells me often that God has given her more time with her dog, as if God just says, "Fuck those starving little bastards in Africa, I Just happen to be a God who loves Golden Retrievers more than kids."
Since nobody here is "God," we are likely to say things that are half-truths. I posted something I believe, not claiming that it is absolute truth.
That's how I see your post, too. Your views, your ideas, not absolute truth.
I'd like to make a comment on something you said,
"A positive mental outlook helps, true...but if "our brains" always did what we "tell" them to do, physical ailments and disease would've been obsolete long ago."
I disagree. It is very difficult to change one's mind to a positive outlook when you have been raised to be negative.
I have no idea what would happen if everyone were positive and believed in themselves. But getting everybody to feel that way is the real challenge--since most people are quite negative.
The placebo effect has repeatedly shown that when people put their faith in sugar pills often they receive healing.
Again, the whole point I'm trying to make is that the patient doesn't know that it's sugar they been "putting their faith in". They've been led to believe that what they've been taking is a "cure-all" drug, hence, that's why it "works". I'm not denying that placebos help people, nor am I saying that the mind isn't a powerful thing, nor am I saying that I'm omniscient, etc.
Peace.
I've read it somewhere that god is the ultimate consumer good --- when it fails, the customers blame themselves.
I think that god (and prayers, just so you know I haven't forgotten the topic of the thread) is the ultimate divide-by-zero error. It appears to be infinite when what it is is nonexistant.
Also (to quixotically respond to the anonymous Xtian...), most of us are not interested in taking the hope away from someone who's in desperate straits, whose sanity is temporarily just hanging by a thread, praying frantically for the god to take the heat off them for a while so they can get through the night. It's to try and get the rank-and-file religionist to knock it off with their day to day, room-temperature routine "praying", and to get onto the reality principle instead.
They'd be better off if instead of making like Aladdin, rubbing away at the magic lantern and making wishes to the invisible genie, they'd spend the time rubbing their weenies and wishing for an orgasm.
Maybe that wasn't very Christian of me. I should have said that they should rub someone _else's_ weenie and hope that the _other_ person has an orgasm. Very selfish of me...
One of the greatest philiospphical questons about God is, "If God is so good and all-powerful, why does evil and injustice exist in the world?"
Atheist answer: "Because there is no God". (How simple and straightforward can you get?!)
Christian answer: "Because blah, blah, blah, blah - (continues with endless logical fallacies, half-turths, bizzare speculaion). Blah, blah, blah, (after endless chatter, still cannot answer the question, and ultimately gives that faith crap as sign of defeat which they arrogantly cannot admit).
If after 2000 years and no answers to these "tough" questions like unanswered prayers or the validity of Jesus/God, and no evidence an answer will be provided, that is proof there is no God.
Imagine how happy you would be if you were walking one day. and saw a 20 dollar note on the ground. happy wouldnt you.
Would you suffer a blow to the head for $20? some wud say yes some wud say no-some would say yes and wud pass out and let the $20 pass away.
But say that you had to suffer a blow to the head every day-it was your lifestyle. How much more happier would you be if you recieved a $20 note now?
What wud demonstrate more love:
some giving someone $20 to a rich person?
or someone giving a poor person $20
You see everyone EVERYONE who is FILLED WITH GODS SPIRIT will suffer. everyone on this Earth will expeience suffering.
For someone who is being burned at the stake because of their belief in God-so many people around can see the love they have for God. They see the pain they are undergoing and are touched.
But someone may be burned at the stake for stealing. No real people will look at that person with admiration.No one will feel like that person is will powered but is rather receiving a punishment.
How much more fulfilled could someones life be when they kno they are living for a greater cause. to leave this world of pain and suffering and head for their fathers arms who has been calling them the whole time.
Reasons for suffering and pain-Atheist-There is no God.
Reasons for suffering and pain-Christian-It is our choice to undergo what we are undergoing. That one day we may see how much God wants us back.
How much more fulfilled is the life of one of God's kids? Where would suffering go if we all made that decision..
read over your comments and your attitude - God loves us - nothing can stop it. And he is asking you very guys to show it to other people.
Reasons for suffering and pain-Atheist-There is no God.
It's obvious from that one comment that you are rather inexperienced in your encounters with non-believers.
A lack of gods is not a "reason for suffering and pain." In my opinion, there simply is no "reason".
Stuff happens. People clash with other people over important things, stupid things, and sometimes just because they feel like having an argument or fistfight.
Stuff happens. You turn around too fast and knock your coffee off the desk. Someone else gets your parking spot. The clerk at the store counts out your change wrong.
Stuff happens. Your family genes carry a defective allele that increases your odds of catching an incurable disease.
Witness, you have it backwards. When stuff happens, it happens. And, from what I've seen in my life so far, there are no miraculous interventions that stop it from happening.
Random outbreaks of suffering and pain are not caused by a lack of gods. However, they do indicate to me that waiting and praying for divine assistance is generally a waste of valuable time.
I wish i could get to know you ;)
smart noggin :)
I guess in a way i just explained my self wrong-personally i must confess that im not like other christians. so I guess me being a seventh day adventist. I see as God as someone who i can talk to-a best friend. Not an almighty deliver that is to blame for all the stuff happening around on this planet. Thats sins fault. and God is not here to take sin away-but to take OUR sins away.
may i ask- If God doesn't exist how did the world become like it is today? im not being rude or challenging im just wondering..
btw: when i said Atheists reasons for suffering I was kinda using the text style of someone else up that page-thats all.
please dont close off your mind...keep it open. Dont treat it like you lose if your wrong.
but m8..if stuff happens how does that show God isn't real?
You know, I have no problems at all with that kind of belief.
"May i ask - If God doesn't exist how did the world become like it is today?"
Well, quite frankly... We don't know yet. There are a lot of theories as to the hows and whys of it all, but no definitive answers.
I'm just not prepared to accept pre-packaged explanations from religious books of any faith. It runs contrary to my upbringing in a family full of scientists. I would rather keep wondering than accept the first convenient or comforting answer.
"If stuff happens how does that show God isn't real?"
Well, it doesn't. Doesn't prove; doesn't disprove. But personally I think that any gods out there are just as subject to the law of cause and effect as the rest of us.
Maybe you should check out the story of creation. I mean like their is no other place that we got this 7-day week from. WE get our months from the moon, our years from the son but no one knows where the 7 day week came from. You get what I'm saying. Maybe you should look into the bible, not as a christian but as an investigator not a wonder - wondering doesn't accomplish much.
One way the bible shows convincing knowledge of God is the predictions it makes. Prediction 2000 years prior.
If you search for answers and you have shut out the bible I suggest you re-direct your thinking. You come from a scientific background right? If you actually have a look at some stuff you'll see how scientifically the Bible is. How recently have we been doing open body surgery? Not too long, yet it is one of the first thing mentioned in the Bible.
I hope you do find your answers what ever they may be.
"...I mean like their is no other place that we got this 7-day week from. WE get our months from the moon, our years from the son but no one knows where the 7 day week came from..."
You're kidding, right? Is this really the calibre of the arguments you bring to this matter? The mysterious origins of the 7-day week?
Here's a question for you: Does the Moon go around the Earth twelve times per year? Let's do the math. The lunar period is 28 days. How many times does 28 go into 365? Twelve? Bit more like thirteen, isn't it?
A person might be tempted to speculate that the seven days of the week maybe appealed to the ancients; maybe they found it convenient to assign a time period to each of the four phases of the Moon. (New Moon, Full Moon, and the phases where the left and the right sides are in the Sun's light.) You'd hafta ask them, though... Maybe someone wrote it down somewhere. Don't know, don't care; where it didn't come from is some non-existent Yahweh character.
Can you please explain how it "contradicts natural selection". I'd like to hear some details before I reply more fully.
By the way, have you ever heard of the Vendian period? Don't forget to mention that in your explanation of how the Cambrian explosion contradicts natural selection.
Looking forward to your explanation.
How I explain how a series of different life forms came about is because they were created. I am not a believer in Natural Selection. But I am a believer in micro evolution. (for example how we get black people and white and all the people in between).
Strong evidence to support creation is the giraffe.
The Giraffe.
A giraffe has a heart 2 feet long. It uses this large heart to pump blood all the way to its brain, up its long neck and against gravity.That is a strong heart. When a giraffe drinks it lowers its neck towards the water and valves in its arteries slow the blood flow, hence stopping the giraffes brain exploding from exceeding blood pressure. Now how could a mechinism like this evolve. Could say, an animal that evolved into a giraffe go to drink the water and kill itself from blood pressure to the brain simply say to itself i need to evolve some valves in my arteries to stop that happening again? no It would be dead. Such a creative mechanism that the giraffe shows keeps pointing to a creator.
cheers
By applying the same logic your using to try and validate your belief in a "creator", such as using the unique cardiovascular system present in giraffes as supporting evidence for intelligent design, wouldn't you agree this could actually be interpreted as a glaring example of a designers flaw rather than a creator's intended useful mechanism?
This alleged creator makes a giraffe with a long neck to eat out of trees, but then nearly makes it almost physically impossible to bend over and take a drink of water?
Is your creator intelligent or not?
Why not make the giraffe with a shorter neck so they could eat vegetation off the ground. That would have been a more suitable design for enabling them to survive, without the need of a specialized system to compensate for the flaws found within their designer biological functions.
Your last post did not contain one bit of fact to support your opposition to the processes of natural selection.
What factual evidence do you have to support your faith in the creator hypothesis?
If anything, it is a fine example of evolution at work because natural selection provided the basis for developing a specialized organ due to a once present ecological niche.
Modifications to the giraffe's structure have evolved, particularly to the circulatory system. A giraffe's heart, which can weigh up to 10 kg (24 lb) and about 2 feet long, has to generate around double the normal blood pressure for an average large mammal in order to maintain blood flow to the brain against gravity. In the upper neck, a complex pressure-regulation system called the rete mirabile prevents excess blood flow to the brain when the giraffe lowers its head to drink. Conversely, the blood vessels in the lower legs are under great pressure (because of the weight of fluid pressing down on them). In other animals such pressure would force the blood out through the capillary walls; giraffes, however, have a very tight sheath of thick skin over their lower limbs which maintain high extravascular pressure in exactly the same way as a pilot's g-suit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giraffe
So, how do you suppose this alleged "creator" went about making any living thing, much less the entirety of a universe or possibly a meta-universe?
Maybe it used magic cosmic play dough and a big wand perhaps? Or was it simply grand thoughts of invention that suddenly appear out of thin air? Is there also room in your rationalization for the hypothesis of there being many creators?
The giraffe is a bit of a mystery. It is one animal for which there are no clear transitional fossils. There are a few candidates, but other than a few unproven hypotheses (adaptation and sexual selection being two), we do not know for certain how the giraffe evolved. Having said that, I think you overestimate its impact, and mischaracterize a mystery as evidence.
First, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. As it applies here, it simply means that what we don't know isn't evidence for alternative origins. History is replete with examples of things we didn't know, but later were able to explain due to new discoveries. Thus, we need to be careful that we don't "fill in the blanks" with blind assertions.
Second, mysteries are not evidence. That is, if you want to prove special creation, you have to do much more than simply point to gaps in our knowledge (i.e., mysteries). Science does not operate by mere assertions, so explaining these mysteries by saying "God did it" are woefully inadequate. Furthermore, they require much more explanation than you might think. More even than evolution. Not only does the creationist need to demonstrate the mechanism(s) of special creation, but also the methods of the creator, which necessarily calls for a detailed theory explaining that creator, the workings of miracles, and so on.
Third, the creationist has to overcome objections like those offered by Melissa. Is your creator intelligent or not? Like nearly everything else on the planet, the giraffe shows signs of less-than-ideal engineering. Explaining this by saying we live in a fallen world doesn't work by the way, because then you have to explain how alleged human sin applies to animals.
Finally, if the giraffe is the best creationists have, then the deck is still stacked against you. The mountain of evidence supporting evolution in thousands of other species great and small lends its support to the idea of giraffe evolution as well.
So, hanging your hat on creationism on the basis that not all things have been explained is not exactly the best strategy.
"A spermatozoon or spermatozoan (pl. spermatozoa), from the ancient Greek (seed) and (living being) and more commonly known as a sperm cell, is the haploid cell that is the male gamete. It joins an ovum to form a zygote. A zygote is a single cell, with a complete set of chromosomes, that normally develops into an embryo."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatozoon
A zygote is a "single cell". Question... the slightest altering of its code, can have drastic changes on the macro end-state being... the adult homo sapien.
Stephen, please explain why it is incomprehensible to understand that small changes, make up larger changes... do you believe we live in a disconnected universe, where the micro and macro are somehow totally residing, with a discrete "demarcation" point...
"...Could say, an animal that evolved into a giraffe go to drink the water and kill itself from blood pressure to the brain simply say to itself i need to evolve some valves in my arteries to stop that happening again? no It would be dead..."
And good riddance to it, too. It leaves all that much more of the tastiest treetop foliage for the hardier giraffe (and its progeny!) two trees over. The one whose head doesn't blow up, but who just gets a bit woozy and has the sense not to try & remedy its vertigo with another drink of water right after.
Melissa gave the specifics on how giraffe blood-delivery systems work in any given (non-dead) giraffe. I'm thinking that if a god designed the giraffe blood delivery system, it didn't know much about hydraulics. Most human engineers would probably have solved the "head" pressure problem by installing an auxilliary pump part way along to the brain, but maybe god skipped that class.
Anyhow, that's not really how evolution works. Rather than suddenly gambling on having some great long neck, in a make-or-break bid to get at the high leaves without its head blowing up every time it wants to wet its whistle, there were no doubt some contenders for longest-necked-near-giraffes, and the winners got to eat well and not-die, and the runners-up got to starve and not procreate their mediocre-neck genes along to the next generation.
There oughta be a sort of Evolution Catechism, just so students don't lose track of the small handful of self-evident elements that make up the elegant workings of natural selection. You wouldn't think there are enough moving parts in it for people to get it wrong, but evidently there are.
Better yet you have the good fortune of witnessing how natural selection is on the precipice of eliminating humans from the gene pool, who have poorly defined processes of critical thought. (defective thinkers)
Two very large segments of the human race are busy arming themselves with weapons of mass destruction, and have little or no defense against the possibility of using them against each other, thus eliminating a huge numbers of their own kind.
There is the group of around 2 billion people, who are captive to a religious meme or cult, called Islam, and another group of similar characteristics called Christians.
Now for all practical reasons any real differences between these two groups are only slight cultural variances.
The reason these two groups of otherwise normal happy, functioning people are about to eliminate themselves from the human gene pool is because they both are being controlled by a different mythological belief systems, the one thinks there is a bearded old man up in the sky called Allah who controls their lives, and the other believes their lives are being controlled by a similar entity called God.
When the two different cultures were forming, or creating, these two mythologies they incorporated into them a very strict inclusive, exclusive clauses that favored their respective cultures, and tell the members of the one cult to hate and kill the members of the other cult.
There is a third group of humans though, who have overcome the proclivity for fantasy, magical, thinking, who go by many names but have in common, that they are not controlled by imaginary beings up in the sky, but by realistic logical thought.
We of little faith (Ex-Christians, and ex-Muslims) are desperately working as hard as we can to make the two large cults realize that what each is ready to die for, and in the process kill many innocents, is just a silly cultural belief that one God is better than the other God.
If these two cults do decide to try to get to heaven by killing each other in enough numbers the resulting fallout my very well open up the possibility of any survivors rethinking the idea that there is an invisible being up in the sky telling them to kill their neighbors.
Thus, natural selection at work, and, Steven, YOU WERE THERE!
Dan
Adaptation leads to evolutionary change. This can happen fairly quickly with single cell organisms via asexual and sexual reproduction. It how ever is NOT efficient in multicellular organisms except through sexual reproduction. If there were no need for humans to evolve, then we should all be able to reproduce asexually and no need for seperate male and female species!
What is purpose of mixing DNA from seperate male and female species except to adapt to a changing environment and produce evolutionary changes!
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"...please explain why it is incomprehensible to understand that small changes, make up larger changes..."
According to the "scientific method", shouldn't conclusions be drawn from the testable, repeatable, and OBSERVABLE?
Small change ("microevolution - moths-to-moths, finches-to-finches, bacteria-to-bacteria adaptation) has been observed, in a MUCH shorter time than millions of years BTW (so, WHERE THE F*** IS ALL THE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL EVIDENCE?!!). However, the end results always remaining within the classificaion of their Biblical "kind".
Coupling microevolution with a little conjecture and a whole lot of speculation into questionable, borderline meritless "evidence", we are expected to believe that larger changes ("macroevolution" - molecules-to-man") have occurred, despite having NEVER been observed (let alone tested or repeated).
In summary... because some of us think a little more critically than that.
"...do you believe we live in a disconnected universe, where the micro and macro are somehow totally residing, with a discrete 'demarcation' point..."
Evolutionists/naturalists would like the "demarcation point" to be as blurred as possible, wouldn't they? I accuse you of the very tactics as stated above. Case and point.
* Why IS it that most (by an OUTLANDISH margin) visual "evidence" comes in the form of sketches, rather than photographs? I can only assume is that it's easier to convince unanalytical minds with fabricated, complete skeletons than with a photo of a few, actual bones. Illusion after illusion after illusion....
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"Surely with God miraculously healing so many people, there should be little need for doctors or hospitals anymore."
Said physicians may be answered prayers in and of themselves, many times over.
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"I dare any church, anywhere, at any time, to try and pray a hospital empty. Even if it were only to last ONE DAY, I'd sit up and take notice."
Well, well, well. Look who's making demands of God.
"Jesus said his disciples would do greater things than even he did..."
Limiting the word "things" to mean healing, with no other possibilities? Can you say "fallacy of the excluded middle"?
"...Yet the hospitals remain brimming with business."
Whoops! I forgot... no one is supposed to die.
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"Nothing fails like prayer."
Except an atheist's fragile intellect.
Not always. You have a mom and dad, prove it. I mean, you don't recall the second you were born right. Explain why a scientist has to pull out transitional fossil records, when you can't even vouch for your own birth, by first hand experience.
If you want to discuss how you will objectively prove you were born from a female human, and why you couldn't have possible been born by a surrogate baboon mother, I'd like to hear your "hypothesis", since you neither observed, tested, and obviously will never be able to repeat your birth process, thanks.
Razorwire: "Small change ("microevolution - moths-to-moths, finches-to-finches, bacteria-to-bacteria adaptation) has been observed, in a MUCH shorter time than millions of years BTW (so, WHERE THE F*** IS ALL THE TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL EVIDENCE?!!)."
It's in the zoo, next to your baby crib, unless you have a better hypothesis.
one last point is dont look at everythin in the natural sense cuz if do ull nvr see God makin sense to u. ive seen God change pple's lives and it has amazed me and i will do all i can do bring bak the love that this country is missin and the blessings tht God has stopped doin since this country has abandoned Him. i want pple to live a good life thru Christ and not have 2 live in bondage 4 the rest of ur life cuz God takes all ur pain and He comforts wen u r sad and calms wen u r mad yet He also rejoices wen u have real genuine joy and i hope pple don believe in the religious God but believe in the one God who loves u more than any1 and wants to help u. good bye now if u have anythin 2 say u can contact me at trckmn58@yahoo.com peace out
trckmn58: "...God wantz to know ur heart..."
Ah, so your god is not all-knowing after all! Didn't think so.
...if u do submit 2 God, He will give u a love for pple that doesn come from u...
Prove that this love doesn't come from me. (And, while you're at it, prove that your god exists outside your own imagination.)
...He LOVED U WIT ALL OF HIS HEART...
Except for the billions of people who are headed for Hell, that is. And all the ones who died in the flood. And the Amakalite babies, too.
God doesn just accept any prayer He accepts one thts true, and one that He knows is for doing His will.
So none of our own prayers get answered at all, just the things that your god wants? Well, if that's the case, you can kiss the Free Will Defense to the Problem of Evil goodbye.
o ya and another thing if u don believe in God how bout look and see how stable our environment is...
(falls on the floor laughing her Goddessly ass off) Ah. This is obviously some strange new definition of "stable" that I wasn't previously aware of. Where I live, we are now frequently getting tornado warnings on the local weather broadcasts. The winter low average temperature is higher than I've ever seen it. And I shudder to think about what's going to happen in coastal areas of the southern U.S. this summer. (If you live there, please move to high ground well inland and further north if you can afford to do so.)
...there is so much good in pple...
Okay, we do agree on that much. By all means, continue to strive to be a good person and make your community a better place.
But please don't come here and preach at us. We've read the Bible. We know all about your religion. We've chosen a different path than you; please accept that.
I hope you are 12 years old, or thereabouts. If not, I'm embarrassed for you.
I suggest you learn how to properly express yourself in English before posting again.
If you are a spoofer, as Boom suggests, please knock it off.
we can discuss the matter of if God is real or not but no matter how hard i try i will not be able to change your opinions because it is not in my power
and another thing what is the spending your whole life disproving what other believe to be true instead of just loving for them for who they are
i wish everyone could go to heaven but unfortunately people choose their own ways and sadly end up going to Hell.
i wish that a lot of things would change in this country politics, family, government, crime, corruption and on and on but yet i feel that rather than voicing my opinion about God and wasting my time arguing i would rather live for God and do His will through my life
it is nice to see what everyone has to say and i respect people’s opinions on not believing in God
yet if you can just look around and see past the unstability and see past all the bad things and see things for what they really are it is a lot easier to appreciate life. you have heard me say enough times but i dont think you grasp how much God loves you because even it is beyond words and by me dummin it down doesn help
so say what you want to say but i will still believe God is real because look at all the strange occurences look at how well things worked together and i see what God has done through people
im tired of religion itself it makes me sick of how divided and broken and all the hatred and bitterness and i wonder when it will come to an end. For the last time God didn intend or create religion but just to turn away from our wicked ways and accept His son who died for all of us. im sorry if that is too much for you but hey it happened and no one can disprove that because no one has found Jesus’s bones
It seems you are terribly confused. We don't believe your god exists. Did you somehow fail to pick up on that? It does not appear that you get it, for why else would be still be trying to assure us that your make-believe deity has feelings of any sort? Let me ask you this. Do you know that Zeus will protect you? Does that statement make much sense to you? Probably not, and for the same reason that your statements make absolutely no sense to us. If there's no reason to believe that some entity even exists, is there much point talking about what other attributes it has?
but MOSTLY because:
1) YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE for any "God", let alone "Jesus".
2) you couldn't form a meaningful grammatically correct paragraph to save your life.
3) you are attempting to parrot the same ol' tired and useless arguments that we've heard a gazillion times before.
4) reeding ur teanaged "code" makes me want 2 vomit.
5) because you are a shining example of what religion does to an already not-so-bright person.
That's the short list, BTW. Furthermore, I ask you: Is it merely your "opinion" that Allah doesn't exist? How about Thor? How about Poseiden? How about Toth? I'll bet you'll say that you "know" they don't exist, right? Well, news flash: With every bit as much confidence as you KNOW that those gods don't exist, I know that your Jebus doesn't exist. Live with it.
Teenager for Christ: im tired of religion itself it makes me sick of how divided and broken and all the hatred and bitterness and i wonder when it will come to an end.
As long as there are people like you--people who can't figure out that they're part of the problem?....sadly, it'll never end.
Teenager for Christ: For the last time God didn intend or create reli......[blah, blah, blah]
For the last time--reread points 1-5, above...paying careful attention to "1" and "3". Thanks.
Teenager for Christ: im sorry if that is too much for you but hey it happened and no one can disprove that because no one has found Jesus’s bones
Right, for the same reason no one has found Santa Claus' bones.
Just thought you'd like to know.
In my opinion, proving that there is no God or gods is more than just speculating on one topic such as prayer. However the comments on Christians are quite true.
What is so confusing to me is why christians feel like their salvation is like fire insurance. It is like people accept Jesus only for the fact so that they don't receive as they say "eternal punishment". What change is that going to make in their lives if they don't really want to change.
Nevertheless, I feel it is time to bring a new topic to the table. A large percentage of people believe in God but a very small percent actually live the walk. Now there is something that is wrong with that picture. I read a book recently talking about how the majority of Americans buy into the whole idea of good people go to heaven. The author stated that actually forgiven people go to heaven. Any responses to that notion.