.: posted 10/04/2002 ::: by webmdave :::   

 Anonymous wrote:

Have as much fun as you can now, webmaster and your ilk. Eternity may not be so great for you.

posted: December 03, 2005 EST  

 .:webmaster:. wrote:

Ah yes, the threats of those who claim to have the unconditional love of god flowing through their lives.

Threats...

posted: December 03, 2005 EST  

 Dave8 wrote:

Have as much fun as you can now, anonymous and your ilk. Eternity doesn't exist.

posted: December 04, 2005 EST  

 BressonF8 wrote:

Sweet mother of Jebus!

God bless you...

I will say a prayer to Fetus Jesus for your soul.

Alan

You may get a kick out of my friends website www.skewyou.com


A-

apinon@yahoo.com

posted: December 14, 2005 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

How about becoming non-committing about anyrthing related to Christian faith?
How about staying clear re anything they might say?
Remember: you are you, they are them, and most important of all YOU ARE OUT while they still ARE IN.

posted: January 11, 2006 EST  

 Awakener wrote:

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

posted: March 01, 2006 EST  

 Awakener wrote:

Flaw 1) Not a corpse, a resurrection body. Paul used the analogy of a seed - the seed is different from the plant that grows from it, though the two are related.
Flaw 2) Um, I'd like to point out the many Christian scientists, not only now, but all through history. You are referring to fundamentalists, and judging the many by the few.
Flaw 3) Um, sure. We don't have people like mother Teresa who spend their whole lives looking after others. Also, Christianity teaches that everyone sins - even Christians. If they didn't, they wouldn't need Jesus to die on the cross for them.
Flaw 4) Some believe in Satan, some do not. Some feel that it is a metaphor for temptation. Few believe that it has red horns and a pitchfork - it would have little power to tempt people if it were like this. The theory goes it was once an angel, so it is likely that if it exists as a sentient being, it would be beautiful.
Flaw 5) The first quote means that believers must be devoted to Christ above all else. The second warns that by following Christ, Christians may be rejected by their families. And by the way, Luke 10:35-6 is actually part of the story of the Good Samaritan. You meant Matthew.
Flaw 6) Yes, Christians have done some horrible things - when they ignored the Commandment: to love your neighbour as yourself. But then, people generally have done some awful things. Let's look at 2 recent examples of unpleasant people:

Hitler - Atheist, tried to destroy the Catholic Church, and replace it with a Reich church devoted to him. Him regime killed the occasional million people or 6.

Stalin - Atheist. Killed a *cough*few*cough* people in the purges.

There was war before Christianity. There was rape and murder and slavery and thievery. And some of it was committed by atheists - should you all be blamed?
I know several bisexual and gay Christians, all of whom are made most welcome in churches. Christians are told to love everyone; even those they feel are sinning. Hate the sin, but love the sinner. So even those who do feel homosexuality is a sin are sinning if they are rude or in any way unpleasant towards gay people. I point this out to mean Christian people. Incidentally, the only abuse received by the gay people above was from rude, arrogant teenagers who are - you guessed it - Atheist!
Flaw 7) I know a 17 year old Christian who has a young son and is yet to marry his girlfriend. Christians may try not the think about having sex with random girls they see, but this is about respect - it is polite not to think of girls purely for the purposes of sex.
Flaw 8) The Nazis weren't a Christian hate group. Hate groups will appear wherever one group believes it is superior to another. 'Christians' who are members of hate groups are ignoring their God, who taught them to love and that all people are equal before him. But I agree, Buddhists are nice :)

And finally, to disprove the intro. Science has proven nothing other than that a literal, fundamentalist interpretation is silly. Science can show how most things happen. But it has no clue why things happen; it can only use the idea of cause and effect. The big bang is argued to be the cause of the universe, but it does not create anything - it states that everything already existed, in an infinitely compressed form. Science says how, religion says why. This is why, for many people, there need be no competition between science and religion.

Finally, finally. You speak in a rude and disrespectful manner, which is quite unnecessary. You will only generate hatred. For my part, I apologise for the rudeness shown towards you by other speakers.

posted: March 01, 2006 EST  

 guerillabob wrote:

very immature site. its like a i hate my ex-girlfriend site. but to each his own. waste of energy.

posted: April 25, 2006 EST  

 boomSLANG wrote:

Excuse me Mr.Bob...but why is this website "immature"?


....::hmmm, what would make him say that?...?...?::....


Ooo! Ooo! I got it!...could it be because you're a Christian? LMAO!!!

posted: April 25, 2006 EST  

 NaLalina wrote:

Awakener, Hitler was not an atheist. He denounced atheism and claimed to be a Christian. Christians like to say that he was not a "true" Christian. But a person's identification with Christianity cannot be negated by other people's judgments.

posted: April 26, 2006 EST  

 NaLalina wrote:

Awakener,
The defintion of science is not "how" and the defintion of religion is not "why." Science is the empirical method of understanding things. Religion is the use of intuition and reliance on authority to make claims about things related to worship of deity/deities. The two are in competition only when religionists claim that scientific findings are wrong because the findings contradict their religious claims.

"Atheism is nothing more than a commitment to the most basic standard of intellectual honesty: One's convictions should be propotional to one's evidence....--pretending to be certain about propositions for which no evidence is even conceivable--is both an intellectual and a moral failing."
--Sam Harris, "An Atheist Manifesto" http://www.truthdig.com/dig/page4/200512_an_atheist_manifesto/

posted: April 26, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

I am an atheist but this is a bit angsty and silly. The best way to convert people is definitely not to insult them or their beliefs.

posted: May 29, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

this website blows harder than your mom and athena combined. i am a sttrong believer in the greek mythological faith. i will pray to zeus to give u good rain and a plentiful harvest. don't be hatin' hephaestus. emo out!!!

posted: June 21, 2006 EST  

 Elizabeth wrote:

Good grief, you must hate Christians...lol...say do you have any ex-Muslim sites as well???

posted: June 22, 2006 EST  

 Dano wrote:

Elizabeth wrote:
"Good grief, you must hate Christians...lol...say do you have any ex-Muslim sites as well???"

To Elizabeth from Dan,
A very excellent ex-Muslim site that does a fantastic job of shining light upon the nonsense of the Muslim religion is:

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/

Dan (An equal opportunity religion exposer)

posted: June 22, 2006 EST  

 .:webmaster:. wrote:

Don't forget Secularism.org and ApostatesofIslam.com.

posted: June 22, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

What was before the bing bang dear people,
what about the myth of abiogenesis (spontanious creation of life as evolutionists claim life to have started)

people what do you believe? do you believe anything or dont you care for what might be real?

i believe in a god it takes the same or probably less strength then to believe in the assumption of abiogenesis...

posted: July 14, 2006 EST  

 Shannon wrote:

"i believe in a god it takes the same or probably less strength then to believe in the assumption of abiogenesis..."

Silly people quit asking all though dumb questions. The answer is very easy: Ta da! God did it! What's really great about this is that there is no thinking required. And you can use it for every answer for every test question. Ta da! God did it! Another A+ for me. Sweet.

posted: July 14, 2006 EST  

 Burgerking wrote:

What if the non-believer does not want to believe... I think this site is fantastic. Christianity is rubbish...

Also, posting a whole slab of crap is probably not a good idea... it's a good way to irritate people, however... I don't need to know the extended history of the bible, i know enough of religion to not want any part in it.

posted: July 21, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

this site its so stupid, i will pray for your soul, cause there is no salvation for people like you, i know that jesus took your life in some occasion and beacuase he didnt give u the things you want, like money , girls o sex you decide to say that thats not real, but remeber he meade it to keep you and to teachyou grat things ,

im sorry

remeber taht Gsus luv u,

posted: July 31, 2006 EST  

 The_Informer wrote:

I am ill. A hazard to the world around me. My disease is this: I have an immortal soul. In this condition I have commited crimes not against the state, but against the statement, including the ultimate sin: betrayal of my human nature. By trusting in a God you rejected, I have gained full control of my libido and aggression, and in the process became something more than your Darwinist views could ever explain. So I must be cured so that "normal" people cal still sleep at night. So you shove your cure, your bitter defeatest worldview down my throat every day. But the more bitter the pill, the sweeter the disease. My soul is a terminal, untreatable case. So you options. A, you let me slip, I go on spreading the "disease",I win. Or B, you euthanize me, I go to Christ, I still win. I cannot lose, and my cause gets stronger by the hour. And that leaves you terrified. So cure me with your words and your pills. Hell, cure me with a .22 rifle for all I care. You flayed my savior alive and crucified him, and I expect and accept no less from you. I am a Christian and this is my manifesto.

Bring it on.

posted: August 06, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

i have been dead three times.
anyone whom thinks eternity is
empty is very pathetic. i feel
so sorry for you. your life is so
dead. how can I help you past
secular stupidity? the beyond
is greater than most can realize!
the TRINITY is all. i worry for
your soul.

posted: August 06, 2006 EST  

 Shannon wrote:

Anon 8/06/2006 1:20 AM

Sorry to tell you this but there does seem to be a physiological explanation for near death experience. Your brain is generally the last part of you that dies. As you cease to breath and your heart ceases to pump, oxygen does not get to your brain. Oxygen depravation causes you to experience hallucinations or pushes you into a dreamlike state. Many people who have had centrifuge training have had the same hallucination/dreamlike experiences as people who have had NDEs.

posted: August 06, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

Shannon, you have no clue about NDE's. Please explain why, then, are out-of-body experiences so many times verifiable? Please explain how people can witness actual events while 'dead' and then are able to report them and have them verified to be accurate?? You need to do much research, oh grasshopper.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence02.html

posted: August 06, 2006 EST  

 boomSLANG wrote:

Anon,

Since "internet authority" holds so much weight, please post another link---but this time, post a link where the individual has been taken to the morgue; has had their chest cavity cracked open; has had their organs removed, weighed, and stuffed back in; has had their cranium sawed off; has had their brain removed, weighed, disected and discarded...in other words, someone who is REALLY f%cking dead. Yes, if you can find just ONE case, and post the link where a person who's been through ALL of the above processes, and who then LEAPS OFF the gurney and starts "reporting world events" that have taken place while being dead? THEN we'll talk.

posted: August 06, 2006 EST  

 Shannon wrote:

Verifiable? Quoi? Did you take your video camera with you? Can I have a copy of the video – time coded, please?

Sure, NDEs are 'real' but in what context are they 'real'? Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. Testimonials are not proof. “While I was dead: you were there, and you were there, and you were there.” Seems to me that NDEs experiences are life content related….if grandma knits you see grandma knitting. You don’t see her secret life where she f**ks the mailman while grandpa is off play golf.

Some people have claimed to be kidnapped by space aliens. These people share an incredible similar experience. Does it make it true? The kidnapping, that is. What they experienced could have been very real. But what was the real experience? Was it really space aliens or was it night terrors? During medieval times people experience night terrors but instead of the space aliens it was the devil that did naughty things to them.

For what evidence that we have, I find that NDEs are hallucinations or a dreamlike state brought on by oxygen depravation.

posted: August 06, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

"Verifiable? Quoi? Did you take your video camera with you? Can I have a copy of the video – time coded, please?"

No, I don't have a video. Why would you ask? Yeah, sure makes you look intelligent asking for something like that, doesn't it? A video. You've got to be (in your immature words) f**ing kidding. Shannon, don't be stupid here, OK? It doesn't help your credibility here.

"Sure, NDEs are 'real' but in what context are they 'real'? Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. Testimonials are not proof.

You're absolutely right. But hey - I'm not one of the doctors who can verify these events, now am I? I've never witnessed these events first hand, like so many in the medical profession have, am I?? But then, YOU make insane claims about your religion, don't you? Jesus the Son of God, miracles, prophesies - all that crap in a book written by men that you are so willing to devout your life to. So what's the difference, then, Shannon? What makes NDE's less credible than, say, the tennents of your Christianity?? You have a whole religious construct built on extraordinary claims; and an entire holy book full of extraordinary claims made by people!! Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof, Shannon - Testimonials are not proof.

"“While I was dead: you were there, and you were there, and you were there.” Seems to me that NDEs experiences are life content related….if grandma knits you see grandma knitting. You don’t see her secret life where she f**ks the mailman while grandpa is off play golf."

Stop generalizing and read the ENTIRE website. Shannon, how old are you? By the way you post all smart-alecky like, you must be about thirteen. I know now with certainty you have never read all that is written on that page I posted. F**king the mailman. Gee. Best you've got? You can't even prove your point in a mature fashion, so why should I even give you the time of day? Perhaps I should stoop to your intellectual level here for a moment: Shannon, f**k off, OK? :-)

"Some people have claimed to be kidnapped by space aliens. These people share an incredible similar experience. Does it make it true? The kidnapping, that is. What they experienced could have been very real. But what was the real experience? Was it really space aliens or was it night terrors? During medieval times people experience night terrors but instead of the space aliens it was the devil that did naughty things to them.

For what evidence that we have, I find that NDEs are hallucinations or a dreamlike state brought on by oxygen depravation.

Good for you. And I find that Christianity is brought on by intellectual deprivation. And I have just as much evidence to support that claim. Shannon, do yourself a favour and just go away. go to a Christian forum. We don't want you here, and we don't give a rat's ass about your crazy beliefs. Go away. -Wes.

posted: August 06, 2006 EST  

 Shannon wrote:

Wes dear heart, I am not a Christian. Never really been one. Twenty-some years ago, I mildly assumed that there was a god in the Christian/Judea/Islamic sense but that’s the closest that I got to believing in a ‘God’. As a teenage/young adult, I dabbled in the occult. Got myself a book on witchcraft, tarot cards and burned all sorts of candles. Nothing happened. Ever.

The more I’ve studied the more that I side with Richard Dawkins: “The universe observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.”

What happens after our death is unknowable. As boomSLANG said (paraphrasing): “No one has died, been through a full autopsy, came back to life and had a story to tell.”

While I find what happens after death to be unknowable, I also believe our consciousness is not separate from our body. Our consciousness is a product of our physiology. When we died, we cease to exist completely. So, while I take the stance that what happens after death is unknowable, I, IMO, do claim that nothing happens because in death we simply cease to exist.

If our consciousness is product of our physiology then NDEs are too. As I said, NDEs may be real but in what context are they real.

posted: August 07, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

what is wrong with you people?! this is brilliant, and so true, every word in there is the truth.

posted: August 09, 2006 EST  

 J. C. Samuelson wrote:

To The Informer,

First off, thanks for choosing a name other than "Anonymous." As for the rest of your post, well let's just say that although you're certainly capable of slinging metaphors, your wisdom leaves something to be desired.

"I am ill. A hazard to the world around me."

The first step to recovery...

"I have gained full control of my libido and aggression..."

...and have become delusional instead.

"My soul is a terminal, untreatable case."

Not really. It's nothing that a psychotherapist and closely monitored meds can't cure.

"I cannot lose, and my cause gets stronger by the hour."

Actually, Christianity is growing at a snail's pace compared to other religions/ideologies. According to the 2001 American Religious Identification Study, from 1990 to 2000, the proportion of the population that self-identify as Christian dropped nearly 10% from 86.2% to 76.5% (roughly .9% per year).

Tables extracted from the study and located here shows some growth in sheer numbers due to population increase (+5%). However, ten other religious groups (including non-religious/secular) outpace this growth by at least 20 times that of Christianity. There has even been speculation that Wicca will be the 3rd largest faith in the U.S. by 2012, though I don't have the citation handy.

Your 'cause' is dying an agonizingly slow death, but it is dying.

"And that leaves you terrified."

Hmm...I thought it was gas, but if you say so...

"You flayed my savior alive and crucified him..."

Assuming your Jesus actually lived, his death would've occurred roughly 1,939 years before I was conceived, so unless you believe in immortality...oh, nevermind.

posted: August 10, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

Whoever that anon guy at the top was. FUCKING GROW UP, ISNT IT ABOUT TIME YOU STOPPED BELIVEING IN FAIRY STORYS.

In fact i hope the shit u speak is true. Cause your lives suck so much now. You deserve some good stuff.

99% of you guys will never have sex. And the 1% that do is when theyre 9 with a preist.

posted: August 31, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

who cares anyway lets get pissed

posted: September 04, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

Whoever that anon guy at the top was. FUCKING GROW UP, ISNT IT ABOUT TIME YOU STOPPED BELIVEING IN FAIRY STORYS.

In fact i hope the shit u speak is true. Cause your lives suck so much now. You deserve some good stuff.

99% of you guys will never have sex. And the 1% that do is when theyre 9 with a preist.

posted: 8/
Hi I am new to this site as i am questioning my beliefs but i saw this post above and the last line was rather upsetting as a relative of a child who was abused by a priest i think it was in bad taste..otherwise i feel that the website challenges your beliefs and makes you see things in a new light UK girl

posted: September 13, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

This is Jesus, ha ha, I had a good laugh at some of these posts. I exist, right now I'm in the pool sipping on a tall glass of beer. It's beautiful up here in heaven with all the angels. Some of them are wearing bikini's, yes I invented women as well as men. Made a better job of it the second time, ha ha
You see I just wanted people to love each other, but the religious people did me in. You know the type, at least you can hate them I have to love them, think how I feel. Well I have to go now, I hope this clears things up. I know you can't see me but I'm raising my glass for a little toast to the good people. Oh, and Mary says hi, she looks gorgeous. Your heavenly dude buddy, Jesus

posted: September 17, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

I must admit that I find most comments here to be very entertaining. Christian, Muslim, Buddhists, Atheists.... When will we learn? It is only when we are accepting of all that we have any merit to criticize. But in our acceptance we no longer have a reason to criticize. However it is amusing to watch all of these fools hurl insults back and forth:)

posted: September 17, 2006 EST  

 boomSLANG wrote:

So then, are you NOT "accepting of all"...?...?...or are you a "fool" too?

posted: September 17, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

not that long ago a woman died screaming her brothers name (a known christian that had passed on before her)saying please pull my feet out of the flames. if there is no hell or heaven where did she go when life left her.

posted: October 12, 2006 EST  

 .:webmaster:. wrote:

I whit ya, anony. I ain't got no learning about 'postrophes or captials neither, but I'sa goin' to heben!

Heathens! Gargoyes!

posted: October 12, 2006 EST  

 Jim Arvo wrote:

Wow, good question, Anonymous.

Here's another one. Where do you suppose all those words and icons on my computer screen go when I turn off my computer? Do you think there's a big pile of them somewhere? I mean, they must go SOMEWHERE when they're not on my screen, right?

posted: October 12, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

Icons are not souls,you just have one soul. Where will yours be when you die?

posted: October 12, 2006 EST  

 boomSLANG wrote:

Anony-fundy said: "Icons are not souls,you just have one soul. Where will yours be when you die?"

Please tell us----in what part of the human body does this thing called a "soul" exist? In which body part, or parts, does it reside? Please think this through before you answer(if you answer), and consider that it surely CANNOT exist in the human "heart", as people receive transplants all the time, and they are not "different" people when they awake. If you answer "brain", then several questions immediately arise: In which segment/lobe of the brain does the "soul" exist?.. as there are many, each having a specific function. Be specific in your answer, giving scientific evidence. Also, if a child is born retarded and spends it's adult life retarded, does it spend eternity "retarded" when the body dies? Or how about this---if a healthy 5 yr child gets hit by a car and dies, does it spend an eternity with the mentality of a 5 yr old? If not, what "age" of mentality is the child "granted" at death? Does the "soul" float around with a pre-schooler IQ? How 'bout a teenaged IQ?...or is it a middle-aged IQ?...a senior citizen IQ? Which? Lastly(for now)...if the "soul" resides in the brain, then what?...medicine can "alter" one's "soul"????

Please---make it make logical sense for us. Thanks.

posted: October 12, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

First off, I want to fix your retarded post so others can understand it better:

--
Not that long ago, a woman died screaming her brother's name (a known Christian that had passed on before her) saying, "Please pull my feet out of the flames." If there is no hell or heaven, where did she go when life left her?
--

There. That's better.

Now for my question to you. Who was this person, and how can I verify this story as fact? Whom can I contact to validate this experience for this audience? Can you send me a phone number? I want to contact whomever was in the room when she died. I want to speak with them directly and get the facts from them, OK? Waiting... You can post this information here, OK? Thanks. -Wes.

posted: October 12, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

>>
Wow, good question, Anonymous.
Here's another one. Where do you suppose all those words and icons on my computer screen go when I turn off my computer? Do you think there's a big pile of them somewhere? I mean, they must go SOMEWHERE when they're not on my screen, right?
>>

Haha - that's funny, only 'cause I told my sister the other day to stop refreshing websites when she gets frustrated with her slow internet connection! I told her that all the stuff that WAS on the screen has to go back to the website owner to get sorted out and recycled! Ha! :-) -Wes.

posted: October 12, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

>>
Icons are not souls,you just have one soul. Where will yours be when you die
>>

I suppose YOU KNOW? Oh, boy - can't wait. Please tell us, and then afterwards perhaps you can share with us the story about how you became aware of such wonderful knowledge? Woo-hoo!! -Wes.

posted: October 12, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

I believe in Jebuddhammedeus Allayahwemosechrist. There. I ain't goin' to no one's hell!! -Wes.

posted: October 12, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

The spirit in man that is believed to be separate from the body and is the source of a person's emotional,spiritual, and moral nature. If there is no soul wy do people die, Im asking you because you seem to know it all. Give me facts that there is no God. I know very little, you may even say Im a
Reatard. where will you be when life is gone. If you believe in science thats fine you may be a monkey. Im not,and i dont think you are either. There's a Devil after you will he get you. If i am wrong no big deal, but if you are wrong you will burn for eternity thinking about what we are talking about right now. You will not make fun of "God" and go unpunished. You my friend may even meet him tomarrow. What you do now will echo for eternity. Fact is you will die.

posted: October 13, 2006 EST  

 .:webmaster:. wrote:

I'm sorry Anony, this has either got to be a joke, or else you're only 12 or 13 years old.

Do your parents know you are on this site?

posted: October 13, 2006 EST  

 Jim Arvo wrote:

Anonymous said "Icons are not souls,you just have one soul. Where will yours be when you die?"

You didn't answer my question. Where are all those icons when my computer is off? I don't mean the *bits* encoding the icons, which still reside on the disk; I mean the glowing pattern of pixels that I perceive when I look at my screen. Where does that go?

If you actually try to answer my silly question, it may give you some insight into yours. You see, your question is every bit as silly as mine. Where does my soul go? The same place unicorns go when they die. It's right next to Peter Pan's hideout, which is just around the corner from Zeus's abode. Are you catching on?

If I interpret your question as the more rational "What happens to a person when they die," I can tell you what has been observed: one's body ceases to function, including their brain. They no longer process thoughts, feel pain, or exhibit volition. Eventually they decay. Now, if you're positing something else--something akin to flying off with Peter Pan--then please tell me what evidence you have for this.

posted: October 13, 2006 EST  

 Jim Arvo wrote:

Reading the latest post from "Anonymous", I'd have to agree with the Webmaster's assessment; 12 or 13 sounds about right, 15 at the outside. Are we close Anonymous? I won't hold it against you if you're a juvenile, it would just be useful to know, as it may temper some of the replies that you'll be getting.

posted: October 13, 2006 EST  

 south2003 wrote:

Annoying,

You're not sure of a damn thing are you? The only time you used your brain in your post it was to say:

"Fact is you will die."

Well, add this to your brain as well:

When you die, you will be worm food and so will your god(s)!!!

posted: October 13, 2006 EST  

 Jim Arvo wrote:

Wes said "...I told her that all the stuff that WAS on the screen has to go back to the website owner to get sorted out and recycled!"

Now hold on a minute. You mean to tell me that it doesn't work that way? Sheesh, these darn computers are too complex for me. :-)

posted: October 13, 2006 EST  

 Believer wrote:

While many have been injured by 'false christianity', many, many more have been greatly helped by the power of Jesus's name. Lives have been radically changed as people have been set free of drug addictions, uncontrollable anger, harmful sexual addictions and family relationships are restored. Christianity is responsible for building hospitals, orphanges, schools, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, and many more worthwhile organizations all over the world.

It is amazing how much of history has been distorted in order to make christianity look bad.The radical Islamists were force converting by the sword from the time of Mohammed in the 7th to the 12th century, even as many of them are doing today. The crusades were a defensive war in order to defend their christian brothers and sisters and to take back land the Moslems had stolen.

As far as having to leave one's brains in order to believe in Christ, science consistently confirms it. When an elite at Harvard law school undertook to examine the ressurrection of Jesus Christ, it was found that the ressurrection is the most single provable event in all of history using the most rigorous standards.

Some people believe that at one time something the size of the period at the end of this sentence exploded (big bang)and 'created' everything in our universe even this planet earth which has everything 'just right' in order for life to exist. Talk about leaving one's brains at the door!

Science also supports creationism, such as the law of biogenesis(life always comes from life), the cambrian explosion (sudden appearance of all types of life in the first layer of earth), the irreducible complexity of even the simplest life forms.

I cannot explain where the soul exists and there are many things about God I do not understand, but science upholds it. I decided to believe it and it was the best decision I ever made. God, by the power of Jesus's name gave me victories over a destructive lifestyle, overcame drug use and addictions, healed my marriage and has given me a meaningful and joyous life that is worth living. Hope everyone who reads this will accept Jesus too.

posted: October 26, 2006 EST  

 Astreja wrote:

Believer: "When an elite at Harvard law school undertook to examine the ressurrection of Jesus Christ..."

Law school??? "Examine the resurrection"? Examine what? There is no physical evidence. There is no first-hand testimony contemporary with the supposed events. There is no documentation of the various weirdnesses that supposedly accompanied the CruciFiction -- No solar eclipse darkening the land. No rabbinical accounts of the veil of the temple being shredded. No visitors to Jerusalem writing of earthquakes and dead rising from their graves. Nada. Not a sausage.

The various stories related to the alleged life and death of Jesus are hearsay taken from the various gospels (written several decades after the supposed events, and unlikely to have been written by eyewitnesses).

Hearsay is not acceptable evidence in a court of law, and any real lawyer would know that. I call bullshit on your story.

posted: October 26, 2006 EST  

 .:webmaster:. wrote:

The Crusades were a defensive war?

History is always an interesting study, and historians filter the information through their own minds.

Regardless of whether centuries of church-sanctioned atrocities can be accurately described as "defensive" or not, it certainly can't be argued that that behavior was Christ-like. I'm sorry, I just can't envision Jesus in a suit of armor, slashing and cutting his way through a crowd of scimitar swinging Muslims. I can envision a hoard of ancient Hebrews following a blood-thirsty Jehovah killing, raping and stealing. But maybe we're just not talking about the same deity.

...planet earth which has everything 'just right' in order for life to exist. Talk about leaving one's brains at the door!

Yes, everything is "just right." Tsunamis are "just right." Skin cancer from the Sun's radiation is "just right." Hurricanes, earth quakes, volcanic eruptions, floods, famine, fire, innumerable diseases... Yup, everything is "just right."

All life has been nearly wiped off of this planet several times in mass extinctions. I guess that was "just right" too.

As far as using the Cambrian Explosion as evidence that Jesus is the son of god, well, that seems a bit a stretch to me. Besides, all the data on the Cambrian Explosion, as it is called, isn't in yet. LINK It would be jumping the gun a bit to make life-changing religious conclusions based on the limited information we have about a time in our world history that took place many, many millions of years ago. Especially when the religion one is promoting says the universe is only 6,000 years old.

You mentioned Biogenesis, but failed to mention Abiogenesis. Also, Read this: Irreducible complexity.

You need to understand both sides of an argument before flexing your apologetic biceps. Knowing both sides of the discussion makes for a much better debate.

Really all you are doing here is copying the rhetoric of pop Christianity in it's search for a "God-of-the-gaps." Of course there are gaps in our knowledge and understanding of events that took place hundreds of millions or even billions of years ago. Duh, talk about leaving one's brains at the door! Having a gap in our knowledge is certainly a poor excuse for evidence, don't you think. I mean, if you had some real solid evidence of your god, I don't think you'd have to work so hard to find gaps in science for him to be found.

That god of yours is shrinking as the gaps are filled. First he was the God who sat upon the circle of the earth, looking down at the flat coin-shaped disk under his throne. Now God resides somewhere else. The greatest fear of Christianity is that people will unravel the present mysteries of life and their god will be squeezed further out of reasonable minds.

posted: October 26, 2006 EST  

 Jim Arvo wrote:

Believer wrote "While many have been injured by 'false christianity', many, many more have been greatly helped by the power of Jesus's name."

Interesting assertion. On what do you base that?

Believer: "Christianity is responsible for building hospitals, orphanges, schools, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, and many more worthwhile organizations all over the world."

But if you stop there, then you are guilty of special pleading--i.e. only considering the evidence that supports your contention. You must also consider...

1) The atrocities committed under the banner of Christianity, which are responsible for untold millions of deaths, and

2) The good that has been done by secular organizations and philanthropists.

If you have some objective measure by which to compare these, then please do enlighten us.

Believer: "It is amazing how much of history has been distorted in order to make christianity look bad."

Most of that needs no distortion whatsoever to make Christianity look bad. Is there a way you can spin the inquisition and the crusades to make them look good?

Believer: "...The crusades were a defensive war in order to defend their christian brothers and sisters and to take back land the Moslems had stolen..."

Evidence please. I suppose you're going to tell me that Pope Innocent III's edict, during the Albigensian Crusade, was also purely a defensive measure. You know, "Kill them all. God will know his own."

Believer: "As far as having to leave one's brains in order to believe in Christ, science consistently confirms it."

You know what's funny about statement's like that? They always fall apart when examined. Please cite some sources. I can virtually guarantee that they are not backed by ANY scientific evidence. The vast majority of such rhetoric is nothing more than the uninformed rantings of fundamentalists, which is then ignorantly propagated by uncritical believers. I can cite hundreds of cases of this, and have found nary an exception.

Believer: "When an elite at Harvard law school undertook to examine the ressurrection of Jesus Christ, it was found that the ressurrection is the most single provable event in all of history using the most rigorous standards."

Case in point. You are no doubt referring to Simon Geenleaf, one of the founders of the Harvard Law School, and an eminent legal scholar. From you comment I shall presume that you never read the book you are referring to, and probably don't even know it's title: FYI it is "The Testimony of the Evangelists Examined by the Rules of Evidence Administered in Courts of Justice...", published in 1874. He in no way proved nor claimed to prove the outrageous assertion that "the resurrection is the most single provable event in all of history...". That is another layer of embellishment that you are now echoing. In a nutshell, Greenleaf's thesis was that, according to accepted legal standards, the testimony of the Gospel writers is compelling evidence for the divinity of Jesus. In short, this thesis is a tapestry of outlandish assertions, presuppositions, and (dare I say it) abysmal legal thinking. I've written about this at length elsewhere, so I'm not going to launch into again here. If you want to discuss Greenleaf's thesis, I suggest you first read the book.

Believer: "Some people believe that at one time something the size of the period at the end of this sentence exploded (big bang)and 'created' everything in our universe even this planet earth which has everything 'just right' in order for life to exist. Talk about leaving one's brains at the door!"

Yes, once again, that's an excellent example of failing to use any critical thinking at all--on your part. Who are these "people" who continue to use that silly cliché about the "period at the end of this sentence"? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and are again simply echoing something you're heard. Do some legitimate research first. Then, if you want to discuss it, come on back.

Believer: "Science also supports creationism, such as the law of biogenesis(life always comes from life), the cambrian explosion (sudden appearance of all types of life in the first layer of earth), the irreducible complexity of even the simplest life forms."

More creationists "talking points" consisting little sound bites (with no context) or implying widespread support for a few crackpot ideas, such as "irreducible complexity". (Obviously, you've never read Behe's book, right? And clearly you have never been exposed to any scientific rebuttals of his ideas, right?)

Believer: "I cannot explain where the soul exists..."

You skipped right over WHETHER the soul exists. Can you offer anything to support that? Can you even define it?

Believer: "...but science upholds it."

That's complete rubbish. More vacuous creationist "talking points". Point to the supposed "scientific evidence", please.

Believer: "...God, by the power of Jesus's name gave me victories over a destructive lifestyle, overcame drug use and addictions, healed my marriage and has given me a meaningful and joyous life that is worth living."

If you managed to do all those things, then I commend you. But I think it is infinitely more plausible that you accomplished them through your own determination, and with the help of those around you, than through the agency of some invisible conscious being who pulls strings for you. I say that because I have seen the first scenario countless times, yet not a single shred of credible evidence for the latter.

Believer: "Hope everyone who reads this will accept Jesus too."

That's extremely naive. On what basis do you have that "hope"? You've obviously not done your homework on ANY of the points you've raised, and you (apparently) completely dismiss the fact that WE HAVE done that homework.

posted: October 26, 2006 EST  

 Jim Arvo wrote:

Silly me, I just realized something. Believer said "As far as having to leave one's brains in order to believe in Christ, science consistently confirms it." On reading that again, I'd have to fully agree. Science DOES consistently confirm that one must leave one's brains at the door in order to believe Christianity! Sorry, I must have misread it the first time. :-)

posted: October 26, 2006 EST  

 freeman wrote:

Believer: "Christianity is responsible for building hospitals, orphanges, schools, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, and many more worthwhile organizations all over the world."

It was ex-tians who wrote the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, two of the most powerful documents in the history of mankind! Did you ever stop to think about that?

posted: October 26, 2006 EST  

 Anonymous wrote:

"As far as having to leave one's brains in order to believe in Christ, science consistently confirms it."

God dang, I love that!! Hee hee! -Wes.

posted: October 26, 2006 EST  

 boomSLANG wrote:

Some people believe that at one time something the size of the period at the end of this sentence exploded (big bang)and 'created' everything in our universe...

Some people believe that at one time---a male, perpetually existing, all knowing, shape-shifting man/ghost(see diagram "A") zapped('created') 125 billion gallaxies into existance using magic.

Diagram A:













...even this planet earth which has everything 'just right' in order for life to exist. Talk about leaving one's brains at the door!

I don't know about you guys, but this is one of the more assinine assertions I hear from the Christian apologetic community. Um, "Believer"... the earth is 2-frickin'-3rds water(and the sea level's rising annually). So why don't we have webbed feet, scales, and gills? Holy mackeral!(pun intended)

posted: October 26, 2006 EST  

 Believer wrote:

I'm glad you got a good laugh over my miswriting. I can laugh over it too.
First I want to thank the webmaster for the opportunity to engage in rationally debating ideas. This is what America is all about. Freedom of speech and freedom of ideas. What is it the Declaration of Independence states? "All men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The capital is marked with scriptures by those who believed liberty came from the hand of the Creator (founders of America) such as on the liberty bell where it states "Proclaim liberty throughout the land" taken from an Old Testament Bible verse.

I will do my best to be perfectly honest and admit, that I have not necessarily read the books written by people I mentioned. Yes, Simon Greenleaf is the professor I am speaking of. What I have read about him is that he is known as one of the greatest legal minds of our country. After doing a thourough investigation of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, according to the laws of legal evidence used in the courts of law, he found that there is more evidence for this event than most of what we all believe about history. The eyewitnesses who wrote about it were willing to go to their death proclaiming what they knew to be true. No one would die for what they know is a lie.

More recently Lee Strobel,a former atheist and also an investigative reporter for the Chicago Tribune, set out to disprove the resurrection of Christ. In his own words, he found it harder to disbelieve the resurrection than to believe it. He has now written several books, one "The Case for Easter" which examines the evidence. Josh McDowall also a former atheist who was much like yourselves and took delight in destroying the faith of christians, set out to disprove christianity and is now one of it's strongest proponents wrote, "Evidence that Demands a Verdict".

Yes, there have been atrocities committed in the name of Christianity and also in the name of every belief system the world has ever known. Just because someone says they are a Christian doesn't mean that they are one. A Christian is someone who lives the teachings of Christ. But I challenge any one of you to check out your local area for the homeless shelters, prison ministries, crises pregnancy care centers. Who runs them? I can tell you that in my home town, it is the christians who started them and are running them.

I ask you Mr. webmaster, can you picture a grandmother blowing the head off of another individual? I can!I forgive people and always try my best to show kindness and love to everyone I meet, but I tell you, if I saw someone doing something to harm my 8 year old grandaughter and I had access to a gun, that's just what I would do. My husband is a peaceloving gentle man, but if he saw someone attacking or hurting one of his loved ones, then they better look out. You can't picture Jesus slashing a sword? I can. He is being long suffering at this time, but there will come a time when those who have hurt his children will have some answering to do. God is a God of love, and because of that, he is also a God of justice. And yes, I will gladly share the site for you who asked for the evidence of the crusades being a defensive war in my next submission. Again thankyou for this opportunity, and those of you who challenge my statements, it's great!!

Oh yes, I wanted to also answer about conditions on earth being just right for life to exist. What I am referring to was information I had read in a secular book written by secular scientists. Their mission is to discover if life exists anywhere else in the universe. They highly doubt it because they have a hard time believing that all of the conditions you find on earth that support life, would reoccur. Conditions such as the earth's speed of rotation, the distance from the sun, the tilt of the earth, the earth's atmosphere, even where other planets are positioned. There are thousands of conditions necessary for life to exist.
As far as the tsunamis, hurricanes and earthquakes. I concede, I don't understand why a loving God allows these things. My only rationale concerning this is that He sees things from an eternal perspective. Sometimes a parent will allow their child to go through a short-term horrible medical procedure in order for the greater good and the long term effect. Thankyou.

posted: October 26, 2006 EST  

 .:webmaster:. wrote:

I ask you Mr. webmaster, can you picture a grandmother blowing the head off of another individual? I can!I forgive people and always try my best to show kindness and love to everyone I meet, but I tell you, if I saw someone doing something to harm my 8 year old grandaughter and I had access to a gun, that's just what I would do.

I agree with you entirely. I would do likewise. It is a normal human response. However, as you said, "A Christian is someone who lives the teachings of Christ." So what Christians are required to do is make a supernatural response to violence. Jesus supposedly said to not resist evil and to turn the other cheek. He not only said it, that's exactly what he did. Later, after he was dead, his followers got tired of dying and added the book of Revelation that puts a sword in Jesus' hands. So, which is it? It can't be both.

And, though I would also firmly resist violence against my family, I would still not consider appropriate justice to horrifically torture a criminal forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever....

My understanding is that I will go to hell forever for the sin of unbelief. Of course the little lies I've told on occasion, the lustful thoughts, masturbating, that donut I took that wasn't mine... all these crimes will add to my sentence, no doubt. Seriously, it just seems a bit over the top to condemn people to everlasting pain and agony just for failing to believe the right version of the correct religion.

Oh, I've read Lee Strobel. I've also read a few things refuting Strobel. Have you read anything to refute him? Or do you confine yourself to materials that support your position? Since you say you like to be challenged, I challenge you to do some research. I'll help: Click Here.

Now, I'd love to read this so-called secular book by secular scientists. Do you have title, author, and/or publisher?

Thanks.

posted: October 27, 2006 EST  

 Jim Arvo wrote:

Believer said "What I have read about him [Simon Greenleaf] is that he is known as one of the greatest legal minds of our country. After doing a thourough investigation of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, according to the laws of legal evidence used in the courts of law, he found that there is more evidence for this event than most of what we all believe about history..."

Where did you read this? Did you make any attempt to corroborate it, or to examine this claim critically before passing it on? (I strongly suspect that you did not, since you have shown zero inclination to do so in either of your posts thus far.) Do you realize that Greenleaf started his investigation with the *presupposition* that the Bible is the inerrant word of the Christian god? He states this quite plainly in the first few pages of his book. Do you realize that he ignored one of the most fundamental legal principles in his "analysis" of the Bible; to wit, an ancient document only has prima facie evidentiary value if its provenance shows no indication of tampering at any time. Yet the Bible is brimming with interpolations and forgeries (many of which are admitted by the Catholic Encyclopedia, for example), not to mention anonymous authors. So, as respected as Greenleaf was, his argument concerning the value of the gospel "testimonies" is little more than a farce.

Believer: "...The eyewitnesses who wrote about it were willing to go to their death proclaiming what they knew to be true. No one would die for what they know is a lie."

Let's apply your reasoning to the 9/11 hijackers. Surely they would not have died for what they knew to be a lie, therefore, at this very moment they are enjoying the services of 72 virgins. Do you agree? Can you shoot down that line of reasoning without shooting yourself in the foot? And, by the way, can you please refresh my memory as to who all those "eyewitnesses" to the resurrection were? Please tell me who they were, what they saw, and how you know that your information is reliable.

Believer: "More recently Lee Strobel... set out to disprove the resurrection of Christ..."

Once again, you have simply swallowed a tall tale. If you have read any of Strobel's books, you would realize that he presents ONLY the arguments of believers, not a single skeptic is consulted. Is this the way one attempts to "disprove" an idea? No. It's what one does in order to reach a preordained conclusion. Had Strobel bothered to give equal time (or even one-tenth time) to scholars who disagree with his premise, nearly every argument in his books would have been easily dismantled. In fact, the vast majority of his arguments are howling fallacies and distortions of fact (which is in line with most Christian apologetics, IMHO).

Believer: "...I challenge any one of you to check out your local area for the homeless shelters, prison ministries, crises pregnancy care centers. Who runs them?"

Prison ministries? Surely you're joking about that one. Crisis pregnancy centers? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but if it has anything to do with medicine, I'd say the chances are high that they are purely secular. Around here, homeless shelters and soup kitchens are supported by the city, and are staffed by a significant number of non-religious volunteers. As to what fraction they constitute, I cannot hazard a guess.

Finally, your comments about conditions on Earth being "just right" for life are a non sequitur. The evidence clearly shows it is *life* that is "just right" for the conditions on this planet. Nobody knows whether there are radically different life forms elsewhere in the universe. We currently have a sample size of exactly one, which means that statistical inferences amount to little more than blind speculation. If you ask whether carbon-based life-forms AS THEY EXIST HERE might *also* exist elsewhere, then it becomes meaningful to ask how many planets are "similar" to ours. But, again, the available evidence is so scant that it is difficult to say anything a all without a huge degree of conjecture. It is only within the past decade that we have begun to detect planets outside our own solar system. Very little is known about them at this point. As for me, I prefer not to jump to unwarranted conclusions.

posted: October 27, 2006 EST  

 Believer wrote:

I am very grateful for the challenges you fellas offer me. I decided a long time ago that I wouldn't believe something just because it was what I was raised to believe or because it brought me comfort to believe it. I regularly check out and gladly will read anything that refutes my beliefs. After all, a belief is only good if it is true.

So, dear Jim Arvo, I checked out any information I could find on our Royal Professor of Law, Simon Greenleaf. Everything I found was that he was a bitter opponent of Christianity and believed that the resurrection of Christ was the greatest hoax of history. Challenged by some of his christian students, he embarked to disprove the 'myth' and ended up becoming a believer. So, I challenge you to check out the truth of what you believe too.

"Yet the Bible is brimming with interpolations and forgeries (many of which are admitted by the Catholic Encyclopedia, for example)"

Actually, the Dead Sea Scrolls refute your statement here.They prove that the Old Testament scriptures were not changed throughout the centuries. It is unlikely that New Testament scriptures could have been tampered with as there are still so many ancient copies of them available.

Do you deny that christians have started many worthy organizations and charities? Salvation Army, Red Cross, Boy and Girl Scouts of America, YMCA(young men's christian association), AA, just to name a few. Chuck Colson's prison (christian)ministry is one of the most successful at lowering the reincarceration rate. The pregnancy care centers throughout the nation have been started by Christians in order to help women who find themselves pregnant and in need of help. They give them free clothing, counseling and support. In my area, the only homeless shelter was started and is run by christians. Churches in our area have pooled resources together and offer emergency help to those in need. The Lutheran church offers free counseling to those who cannot afford it.
After Hurricane Katrina hit, I read in the paper how it was the churches who were being the most help to the homeless and devastated. Government programs told the victims what they needed, but the churches came and asked the people what they needed and volunteered hundreds of hours of cleanup, services,and gave out free clothing and other supplies. Why will you not give credit where credit is due?

And finally Jim, you could have a point about life being right for the conditions. What I wrote about was what I read about. It was some years ago that I read the book I mentioned and I cannot remember the title, but I will check my library and see if I can find it for Mr. Webmaster.

Be sure to check out this site for info about the truth of the purpose of the crusades.
http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm

Now, Mr. Webmaster: Are you sure Jesus was agin violence? Didn't he make a whip and drive out the 'robbers' from the court of the temple? He could have done it supernaturally, but he didn't. Also, remember, the reason Jesus did not resist the Jews and submitted to death on a cross was because it was the purpose for wh