.: posted 5/10/2008 ::: by webmdave :::   

If you saw things the way I do, you'd think that the title of this article was an oxymoron. High school, from my personal experience at least, is rampant with anti-intellectualism and general ignorance (lamentable considering that it's supposed to be a place where ignorance is eliminated). It seems that only a minuscule minority of students cares about anything other than which friend is dating which other friend, which band just came out with a new album, or anything outside of their social lives.

That's why it seemed so important to me to start a freethought group. Not just because there was a lack of skepticism (though there are quite a lot of creationists), but also to get students to start thinking and caring about the world around them.

I went to my first CFI conference (The Secular Society and Its Enemies) last November in the splendid city of New York. I hadn't a clue that meeting fellow student freethinkers could be so much fun. For the first time since I'd entered high school, I was in an oasis of thought with intelligent discussions taking place all around me. Not only were there speakers with fascinating subjects, but there was also the opportunity to talk to fellow student freethinkers and other attendees. Later that evening, I was in shock to find myself having dinner right across from Richard Dawkins in the Beekman Pub, and conversing about campus activities with all the other students at the conference.

Lucia (standing, right) receives an ovation at the Beekman Pub

About a week after the conference, I e-mailed Richard Dawkins because I felt the need to thank him not only for dining with us but for his books which had helped me appreciate science ("appreciate" being an understatement; more like "love passionately to death") so much. He wrote back telling me that he had remembered who I was, and not only that...he told me that he'd been "bowled over" when I told him that I was fourteen at the time. I looked up the words in the dictionary—they mean "highly impressed". Imagine how I reacted.

If you imagined me falling out of my chair and giggling madly, you imagined correctly.

As proud as I was to have bowled over my own personal hero, I was a bit mystified. What had I done that impressed him so much in those five minutes I'd spent talking (rather incoherently I think) about my attempts at starting a freethought group?

And then I began to remember that the vast majority of high school students didn't care or think about the things that freethinkers tend to value so much. That's when my purpose for starting a freethought group became clear. What I intend to do is make it into something like an everlasting CFI conference or Beekman Pub, where refreshing intellectual conversations occur.

It hasn't been easy.

Though I know that there exists a substantial population of students interested in freethought, my group has yet to gain official recognition because I've had many problems finding a faculty sponsor. But, it's a big school. I reckon that persistence will eventually find me one. And then, I can get down to business making my freethought oasis.

Lucia Guatney is a freshman at Cherry Creek High School in Greenwood Village, CO. She also runs the blog Splendid Elles.

 Joyce wrote:

Lucia,

Great Post! It tickles my heart to hear someone so young be so unafraid of questioning. Question everything! Seek for reality and truth in all directions. The world needs young minds like yours. You remind me of Christopher Hitchens (I'm sure you have read "god is not great"), when he relates the story of how at nine years old he realized the story of creation that his grammer school teachers were spewing out as truth, just couldn't be correct.

I was born and raised in a crazy, fundamentalist Christian world that told me the Bible was God's word and ONLY it had the answers to life.

I began questioning at around 16 years old, but couldn't completely get my mind FREE of all the nonsense for many, many years.

Keep fighting for your right to have a "Free Thinking" club at school. It is a fight worth winning. The future of our planet depends on young, sound thinking minds such as yours. If the religious fundamentalists of the world win this fight, I fear that humanity is doomed. Please fight on! And keep us informed here at this site (this is truly a sancturary of Free Thought). I hope that I will have the privilege of voting for YOU for President in 2016.

Ex-Pastor Dan

posted: May 10, 2008 EST  

 USMLE Video Lectures wrote:

Lucia, I was an evolutionist in high school. But I studied mutations in detail in medical school and gave up darwinism. Now, I am a practising physician and preaching creationism to my patients. Evolution is non-sense.

posted: May 10, 2008 EST  

 boomSLANG wrote:

Religious troll: Now, I am a practising physician and preaching creationism to my patients.

A physician, are you? I wonder then, do you also prescribe the smearing of pigeon's blood on your patients?...you know, to heal them from disease?

"That's funny!"...said the talking snake.

posted: May 10, 2008 EST  

 weemaryanne wrote:

Professor Dawkins is in a position to know just how rare it is to find an independent thinker in any high school. Teenagers are so insecure that they tend to be conformists in many things. Alas, for many this persists into adulthood.

I echo Ex-Pastor Dan's congratulations, though I hope you won't actually run for the White House until after you've finished college at least. ;-)

posted: May 10, 2008 EST  

 AtheistToothFairy wrote:

USMLE Video Lectures wrote:
I was an evolutionist in high school. But I studied mutations in detail in medical school and gave up darwinism. Now, I am a practising physician and preaching creationism to my patients
----
Boomslang,

This troll seemed very familiar to me and sure enough, I'd say this so called 'doctor', is the same former Dr Fleming who posted the following:

REF: http://exchristian.net/2/2008/03/misinformed-about-evolution-theory.html

DrFleming wrote:
I am a practising physician in Pennsylvania. Just this morning I met a little girl with Patau Syndrome a trisomy 13 chromosomal abnormality. The little girl is born with many physical deformities. Mutations are deadly. It is stupid to think that new organisms arise through their assistance. I used to be an evolutionist before going to medical school. Now I believe in Creationism and what God told us in the Bible. Peace. Respect science and trash Darwinism.


I would like to point at that on the previous thread, Dr Fleming never responded to any comments made towards/about him.

I'm betting we never hear back from this so called 'doctor' post as well?


ATF (Who still finds it scary that any such doctor would be treating LIVING patients)

posted: May 10, 2008 EST  

 Dave8 wrote:

Lucia, I think what you are doing is wonderful. I experienced the same type of anti-intellectualism in high-school.


It's unfortunate, that there are grown adults who still want to belong to the anti-intellectual culture, the USMLE poster is a perfect example.

People have a hard time with language, what it is, and how it works per se, and it works on many intricate levels.

Beyond language however, we have "techniques" and "methods" of employing our intellect. Science, is a concept... the practice of science adheres to tested techniques and methods... the products of the science method(s), give us scientific facts.

If USMLE, is actually a practicing physician, they are either incompetent in the "science" of "medicine", which employs the method(s) of science; or a hypocrite, who employs the medical tools created from scientific facts, while lying about the science behind their practice.

In either case, incompetence/ignorance and/or deception would not be the attributes I would seek in a physician.

I worked for a newspaper, and wrote a few articles in high school; regarding the lack of education in high-school... the response was a disengagement from my teachers, which were never really engaged in the first place, and a response from other students who demanded that education be the sole responsibility of the student.

We are not born with knowledge of; "sources", "techniques" or "methods" that allow a child to create "knowledge", these are the essential that should be taught to students by mentors and teachers alike.

Education comes, when we are able to "create" knowledge independently... not... be able to recite a books of words and answers that were created in some "secret" black-box - where the authoritative elite are the only ones to know the black-box's "sources" and "methods".

There are intellectual leaders, who are trained with the basics, and progress to be able to create knowledge... and then, there are "followers"... USMLE's comments show them to be a "follower", who just chooses to change camps when socially convenient.

High-school for me was a system that "rewarded" those who "followed" the dogmatic views of authority; not those who wanted to intellectual grow to become independent "thinkers" in our society.

You're courage, to advocate for a better future, exemplifies what I would want in a civil society; a society of competent thinkers, including our physicians, thanks.

posted: May 10, 2008 EST  

 Trancelation wrote:

My younger brother is in a freethought club in his high school, a high school that is in the buckle of the Bible Belt in a podunk little county that houses some very rabid anti-intellectual and anti-gay churches (churches that have tried to put the local independent bookstore out of business simply because it has an Occult section, and have tried to force the local high school to put up the Ten Commandments on the walls before I threatened to get the ACLU involved). I consider this an immense mark of progress, both on his part and on the part of the school and the teacher responsible for starting the club, a science teacher. As the original article points out, modern students are woefully uninterested in anything outside of their social sphere. I was painfully aware of this when I was in high school; while I raged against the machine, fighting teachers and faculty at every turn, demanding answers and fair treatment from what were eseentially our handlers, most other students I knew were as the original post describes and as I described earlier.

But here is a freshmen, thinking outside the box, challenging authority and demanding to be treated like an intelligent human being (another gripe I always had; no matter how intelligent, loqaucious, or mature a tennager is, they are always just a teenager, expected to shut up when they're told to shut up). I can tell you right now that it's going to be a fight, Lucia, but it's worth it.

posted: May 10, 2008 EST  

 freedy wrote:

To usmle troll,my dad is a retired physician who specialized in genetics.I grew up around M.D.s who were all evolutionists.

I know firsthand that real doctors do not preach to their patients,they don't have the time.

Ethics also prevent preaching of any kind,...you are a fake!

* If you are for real,my guess is that your practice will soon come to an end.

posted: May 10, 2008 EST  

 AtheistToothFairy wrote:

Lucia,
I truly admire your great courage !!

As I've told a few fundie xtians who have paid us a visit here, religion won't meet it's end by 'force' from our freethinker kind, but rather by people like yourself. People, who bring intelligence to the newer generations just starting out in their 'adult' lives.

It may be that finding teachers to act as sponsors, is a problem because they don't wish to rock-the-boat of their careers, even though they might privately agree with your purpose.
However, if you persist, I'm sure you'll eventually find one or more who will have the same courage that you do.


ATF (Who is very happy to see our young, starting to question the accepted fables of old)

posted: May 10, 2008 EST  

 Astreja wrote:

Wonderful story, Lucia! If ever we should meet at the Beekman, the first round is on Me.

(As for *you*, USMLE, if you actually are a licensed physician you are a disgrace to the medical profession. An utter disgrace. It's only a matter of time before you preach to the wrong person and end up with your license stripped and your career in ruins.)

posted: May 11, 2008 EST  

 THE ACE wrote:

I think whoever posted at USMLE
Video Lectures is not a doctor, but a troll. Anyone smart enough to be a doctor would not spell
"practicing" with a an s, or put a hyphen in the word nonsense.

Lucia, that was a great post. Perhaps if more of your generation
would adopt your attitude, this country will not be so diseased with religion in the decades to
come.

Keep up that great work!

posted: May 11, 2008 EST  

 freedy wrote:

Ace,I thought the same thing until I looked it up on wikapedia.

The present(practising)is spelled with a "s",...who figure?

*He's still a phoney troll I suspect.

posted: May 11, 2008 EST  

 THE ACE wrote:

Freedy: I consulted Webster's 21st
Century Dictionary, and it listed
the word as ending in-ticing, but
it also listed an alternative spelling for practice, using an
s instead of a c. As you said, go figure.

Well, I should be more careful, and leave the rotten spelling,
fractured sentences, and the lack
of anything resembling punctuation
to most of the fundies who post here!

And if this person really is a doctor, and I believed in the power
of prayer, I would be praying mighty hard for his patients!

posted: May 11, 2008 EST  

 sleepyjack74 wrote:

Wow, that was inspiring. You have my vote for president.

posted: May 12, 2008 EST  

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