"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
[Albert Einstein, 1954, from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side," edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press]

"...a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of
religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests... The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine
religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."
[Albert Einstein, address at the Princeton Theological Seminary, May 19, 1939, published in _Out of My Later Years_, New York: Philosophical Library, 1950.]

"The minority, the ruling class at present, has the schools and press, usually the Church as well, under its thumb. This enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses, and make its tool of them."
[Albert Einstein, letter to Sigmund Freud, 30 July 1932]

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with
the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."
[Albert Einstein, The World as I See It]

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his own creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms."
[Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955]

"The mystical trend of our time, which shows itself particularly in the rampant growth of the so-called Theosophy and Spiritualism, is for me no more than a symptom of weakness and confusion. Since our inner experiences consist of reproductions, and combinations of sensory impressions, the concept of a soul without a body seem to me to be empty and devoid of meaning. The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed. It was the experience of mystery - even if mixed with fear - that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds -- it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."
[Albert Einstein, The World as I See It]

Thank you christopher. I am pleased to know you. Einstein is one of my heroes. Darwin. Nietzsche. Ayn Rand. Amelia Earhart. Humphrey Bogart. Kathryn Hepburn.

There is not a name for people like me. I am indifferent about the reality of any deity. I just dont care if there is a creator or not.

These creation people trash their own case by adding "intelligent design". We have all seen Down's syndrome. We have all seen horrible birth defects. Intelligent design? I am not impressed.

I remember when I first learned what a hermaphrodite was ( I was a sheltered girl) I could not line this up with genesis 1-27, where it says that god created male and female.

I have relatives who are farmers, and animal birth defects are so hideous--I have seen strong men weep. I shudder to think what sort of designer is in charge of this universe. Count me out.

[QUOTE]"Thank you Christopher. I am pleased to know you. Einstein is one of my heroes. Darwin. Nietzsche. Ayn Rand. Amelia Earhart. Humphrey Bogart. Kathryn Hepburn."[/QUOTE]

You're certainly very welcome. Don't forget Mark Twain, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Ingersoll and Voltaire. Long list to note. :)

[QUOTE]"Intelligent design? I am not impressed."[/QUOTE]

As has been quoted through the years from many philosophers, anthropologists, psychiatrists and even comedians alike, if there were a creator, they'd be one seriously incompetent lot indeed. And tellingly, such creator would not even be able to recite their own grand plan or simple design, given how chaotically random space, earth and life itself actually are.

[QUOTE]"I shudder to think what sort of designer is in charge of this universe. Count me out."[/QUOTE]

True. Further, if there were such a creator, what would account for them? If an earth supposedly needs a maker, so would the maker itself. Where would it end? "Lord works in mysterious ways." Yeah, that's about the size of it.

I think it is Richard Dawkings, in The God Delusion, who uses the term Einsteinian Atheist.

I consider myself an Einsteinian Atheist. Not in the sense that I am a follower of Einstein in a religious way, but in a similarity with his views of the universe.

christopher--can I call you chris--I adore Tom Jefferson and Tom Paine. I have been to Monticello twice and got myself thrilled to pieces. There was only one little disappointment. We couldn't see the Dome Room on the second floor. Monticello has two small stairways,both 22 inches wide, and since you are taken through in large groups, it would be dangerous if fire broke out.

Voltaire: I just read Candide. I got myself a Norton Critical Edition which means that half the book is comment and essays.

Mark Twain: I have been to Hannibal MO. I was expecting a tourist trap but it wasn't really. I stayed in a hotel that was once a brothel owned by a woman named Lula Belle.

god: everything needs a cause, which in turn needs a cause. This is just Philosophy 101. But when believers get to god, that is different. Oh no, god is eternal and uncaused. That is trying to pull a logical fast one. I think its called Special Pleading. Nope, I dont buy it. We are within our argumentative rights to inquire into the cause or the source of god's existence.

Forgot: have you read Ingersoll's essay on Individuality? Other authors: Jack London; Isaac Asimov; Sartre; Camus. So glad you responded to me--I could go on all day.

Lorena hi. You have me a little confused. Was Einstein an atheist? He denied a personal god, which really is no different than no god at all. If there is a god , he doesn't care, which means that I dont care.

Thanks for all the attention!!!!

On Brooke's comment about Einstein feeling "some kind of intelligence working its way through nature," there is more to be considered.

Einstein died in 1955. He did not have nearly the information available to us today. He might have concluded some higher form due to the fact that the greater influx of modern science was not quite in play yet.

No "intelligence" can be demonstrated or even soundly hypothesized for, even still.

Besides, critically important to understand upon such notions, that statement (per interview) was ONLY a comment that John Brooke said about Einstein. In that Einstein truly said that is purely second-hand information from Brooke and no more. Nothing can be verified.

Remember the interests of Brooke. From the article, "John Brooke, emeritus professor of science and religion at Oxford University. As Brooke was a retired professor of science and religion, Einstein was probably appeasing him. Even Brooke called Einstein "quirky" on the topic.

Brooke also said the letter lends weight to the notion that "Einstein was not a conventional theist" — (then the article author here wrote) "although he was not an atheist, either." Brooke did not write that and certainly NOT Einstein.

Of course, the notion that Einstein was not an atheist, is most incorrect. The definition of atheist (a=non - theist=theology=god belief) describes a belief in a "god" which is a deity that creates and expects from us; this is theology. Einstein was not theological whatsoever. He regarded the "god" concept as "human weakness." Also reread his words posted in this same page.

Finally, Einstein wrote... "The mystical trend of our time, which shows itself particularly in the rampant growth of the so-called Theosophy and Spiritualism, is for me no more than a symptom of weakness and confusion."

Einstein (again, who died in '55, long before modern science really took foot), and may not even have implied necessarily "intelligence" notions to Brooke or anyone else, was certainly not of the thinking that our thoughts are interconnected to any spiritual force that guides our lives or is even anything beyond perception alone. No energy that one can engage with for outside direction beyond our own minds. Any far-reaching "intelligence," which no one in the upper tier of acclaimed scientists of today would concur with, is in no way active within the human motion by any means.

shedevil, Can I call you "she"? :)

Yes, you can call me Chris. Seems you've made some interesting treks. You seem diversified and intriguing. I have not read Ingersoll's essay on Individuality yet, but have visited his Museum in western New York State with some very distinguished scientists. It was a great event.

[QUOTE]"I think its called Special Pleading. Nope, I don't buy it. We are within our argumentative rights to inquire into the cause or the source of god's existence."[/QUOTE]

"The tendency has always been strong to believe that whatever received a name must be an entity or being, having an independent existence of its own. And if no real entity answering to the name could be found, men did not for that reason suppose that none existed, but imagined that it was
something peculiarly abstruse and mysterious."
[John Stuart Mill]

"To recognize that nature has neither a preference for our species nor a bias against it takes only a little courage."
[James Randi, "The Faith Healers"]

"Man is a credulous animal, and must believe in something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones."
[Bertrand Russell]

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe."
[Carl Sagan]

"It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either."
[Mark Twain]

I love quotes

"I have sworn upon the altar of God,eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man"

That's my favorite Tom Jefferson quote

"I call christianity the one great curse, the one enormous and innermost perversion, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are too venomous, too underhanded, too underground and too petty--I call it the one immortal blemish of mankind"

My favorite Fred Nietzsche quote

I was talking to chris, not you. Go away

Andrew said...

"That Einstein would say these things about the Jews, especially in light of the holocaust, is highly questionable. And especially at a time when Israel daily faced extermination. If true, he sure was a backstabbing weasel, wasn't he?"

Now this isn't very fair or on point is it? Einstein was just being honest about the idea of a certain group of people being "chosen" or somehow special to god. He was not undermining anyone whatsoever. His comments had no bearing upon world events in which Jews were involved. He made a comment regarding theology and traditional doctrine regarding elevated divine statuses, nothing more.

Does this sort of thing happen a lot?

Andrew: "That Einstein would say these things about the Jews, especially in light of the holocaust, is highly questionable."

Andrew, cite the source and Einstein quote that makes you "wonder" about Einstein's thoughts.

Einstein, was responding to religious "exclusivity"; how religions are by design exclusionary and separatist, preventing the ability to see the whole of beauty, because of the small minds that can only see in black and white; or... in religious terms, "mine is better than yours"

However, since you seem to have a keen sense of wonder about those who would "speak out" with hate, and terrorize Jews - I think I can satisfy your curiosity.

What influence led to Hitler's Nazi regime, brutally murdering millions of Jews?

The short answer is Theologian "Martin Luther". This in "uncontested", and isn't "highly questionable", except for those who refuse to become educated.

Thursday, November 03, 2005

"Martin Luther and the Disappointing Jews"

"Monday was Reformation Day in Germany, when Lutherans commemorate the founder of their church. This year, however, one church in Berlin has been focussing on the great man’s dark side. The Tagesspiegel reported:-

‘At the end of his life Martin Luther wrote some appalling things about the Jews, says Peter von der Osten-Sacken, a theologian at Humboldt University. He will be preaching about this in the Reformation Day service at the Auenkirche. It culminated in the 1543 text “On the Jews and their Lies”, in which Luther calls on the German nobility to drive out the Jews. First they should “burn their synagogues and raze them to the ground and destroy their houses”, “completely abolish their right to travel on the roads” and “force the strong young Jewish men and women to work with flail, axe, spade, distaff and spindle”.

‘“There you have the full programme which the Nazis put into practice” says von der Osten-Sacken. In his earlier writings Luther showed a lot of sympathy towards the Jews, because he was optimistic that he could convert them to Christianity. The reformer’s thinking was that if he showed them how to interpret the Bible correctly, they would realize that Jesus was the Messiah. When he discovered that the Jews were not impressed, his esteem for them turned into hostility and hatred, says von der Osten-Sacken.’

The church is also mounting an exhibition on the Jews in Wittenberg, the “Luther town”, under the Third Reich, showing how the town and its clergy colluded in the Nazis’ exploitation of the Lutheran heritage."
Andrew, Hitler followed Martin Luther's most Holy Instrustions, as a "religious" leader. Germans didn't revolt in mass, because they had been "taught" by the religious leader and his followers that Jews were animals and deserved to be treated as such.

Martin Luther inspired the Protestant Reformation, protesting against the original Christian Church authority - the Roman Catholics and their papacy.

Now, if you want to go back to the Crusades, and Christian imperialism, where Jews were being slaughtered as well as any other group/individual the popes had a dislike for, then... just let me know.

And, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that the Roman Catholics, from which Protestantism and other Christian denominations, have their leniage, compiled and published the New Testament for the "specific" purpose of "closing" and "abolishing" the "Jewish" Old Testament.

Let me be more clear, Christianity was founded on the religious "abuse" and "abolishment" of Judaism.

Ironic, that you don't find the entirety of religious foundations exemplified by Christendom - highly questionable... Einstein did.

Oh looky, Andrew/"Goldstein" is back with his monthly anti-atheism dry-heaves.

Once again, "Andrew", you are being disingenuous when you attempt to lead people to believe that your gripes are limited to Atheism. Nope, your "cause" isn't limited to atheists(at least, it shouldn't be); your problem is with people---ALL people---who deny Yahweh & Co. That set of people, of course, isn't limited only to atheists.

In other words, if everybody claimed a "God", and thus, there were no Atheists, you'd be crashing in on other theist websites and regurgitating your blather there, instead of here. You see, in order to be a truly convincing "anti-atheist", you should not deny ANY "god".

A further illustration---let's say, hypothetically, there are 100 deities. You deny all of them but one---of course, I refer to that little son-of-a-virgin bitch, "Jesus".

Thus, you are 1% theist, and 99 % ATHEIST. Oh, sweet irony!

BoomSLANG, so true... here is a youtube link, to "A short list of Gods".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZVRpqm0Cl0

I did research a few years ago, and knew of at least two thousand god references through history with little effort... there are more of course.

The cultural significance of a monotheists' "beliefs" in terms of world religion and history is - conservatively less than .0005%

When a monotheist declares that their .0005% cultural relevance is "more" significant than "all" other cultures of history (based on popularity, etc); one can only observe the sheer ignorance, or pompous audacity exuding from such.

I like to think of Pascal's Wager, in light of the number of gods promoted throughout history.

Pascal's Wager suggests that humanity can not (per his belief) trust reason in terms of certainty, and therefore a God can not be found through reason.

Having no certainty of reason leads to his conclusion, that everyone should live as if there is a God, because they have nothing to lose, he was not basing his observations on a bible or a particular religion, because these would as well be uncertain items of reason.

When Christians pose Pascal's Wager; they lack the understanding that Pascal suggests even "their" own God can not be known through reason, and is therefore "uncertain".

The Christian who poses Pascal's Wager should be shown the necessity of worshipping all 2K+ gods in order to make the most of their uncertain ignorance. If Pascal is correct, and there can only be something to "gain" by living as if a god exists; then certainly, such a "reasonable" (sarcasm) man as Pascal would suggest living as if an "infinity" of gods existed.

:-) If a Christian is not willing to "live", as if an "infinity" of gods exist for their benefit, and they have "nothing to lose" from doing such, then they conflict with Pascal's Wager built on the premise of "uncertainty".

A Christian who refuses to accept; uncertainty of reality, inability to reason with certainty [Pascal's claims], and the infinite gods that become possible in such a state…, but still promote Pascal's Wager to everyone else [besides their self] on the planet, is either unqualified to argue using Pascal’s Wager due to outright ignorance, and/or is an outright liar with an agenda.

To me, “doctrinal” Christian literalists are illiterate and/or have to believe their God is neither Omniscient nor Omnipotent… while “cultural” Christians are statistically “insignificant”, in terms of the entirety of historical culture.

Sorry for feeding the troll, but...

Andrew/Emanuel Goldstein wrote: "Elimination of the weak and defective, the first principle of our philosphy. And we should help them to do it!"

Andrew/Emanuel Goldstein, which translation of The Antichrist are you allegedly quoting?

From Mencken's translation: "The weak and the botched shall perish: first principle of our charity. And one should help them to it."

From Kaufmann's translation: "The weak and the failures shall perish: first principle of our love of man. And they shall even be given every possible assistance."

Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey

Andrew is extremely mentally ill. He posts constantly on Craig's List where he encourages people contemplating suicide to go ahead and do it. This Andrew is one sick individual. Do not engage him.

Andrew is extremely mentally ill. He posts constantly on Craig's List where he encourages people contemplating suicide to go ahead and do it. This Andrew is one sick individual. Do not engage him.

No problem, Dave, sorry about that.

Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey