News of interest to former Christians


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In this presidential campaign season, Democrats and Republicans alike have declared their religious faith. They do it, in part, because they believe it wins political points. After all, the latest Harris polls show somewhere between 73 and 80 percent of Americans believe in God. But what about the rest?

Agnostics say they just don't know; others say they are firm non-believers. Whichever is the case, non-believers are increasingly outspoken in modern America.

By all appearances, the Lows are a tight-knit, loving family. Ron and Alice are devoted parents. Daughters Morgen and Maddy are good students involved in wholesome activities.

And there is one other significant fact of their lives: the Lows -- all four them -- are atheists. They say it's the certainty of science as opposed to what they call the "magic" of religion.

"I do feel like it's really important the whole world think rationally," Ron Low said. "I think a lot can go wrong when people make decisions based on things they don't really have evidence for."

Some atheists, like the Lows, lead quiet lives. But others are famous, including Lance Armstrong and Jodie Foster.

The numbers might surprise you in country with such a strong religious tradition.

"If you look at polls and scan them carefully, you can easily surmise atheists comprise somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of the population," said S. Van Maren of American Atheists.

Today, atheism is mainstream. Authors who don't believe in God find their works prominently displayed in bookstores and topping the bestsellers list.

Why are atheists today so open? Non-believers and believers alike agree on one point: Different views are more tolerated in a country that is more diverse than ever.

"I don't know whether there are more atheists or we've created a culture where it's safer for people who have struggled with faith, or don't believe in God to be more forthright and honest about that," said Bishop Mark Hanson.

North Park College Professor Scott McKnight, himself a Christian, offers another reason for what he calls the new atheism. Atheists, he says, are vigorously responding to outspoken Christians who are involved in politics – the so-called religious right.

"There are people who say, 'I don't have any religious persuasion. I'm an atheist. Which party is there for me?'" McKnight said. "And I think that is part of the reason they've begun to lash out."

And statistics show there are more young atheists than older ones. At the University of Illinois at Chicago a group called the Rationalists and Free Thinkers includes students who don't believe in God, though some grew up in religious homes.

"I used my biological background that I have to create my own views," said atheist Neil Schultz. "And I just realized that is what I was raised to believe, just didn't make sense to me anymore."

Somewhere in the middle of it is a "humanistic Jewish" congregation.

"We celebrate our Judaism as our peoples' cultural, history, heritage, our food… all of that richness," said Rabbi Adam Chalom.

But they don't believe in God.

"We believe in people… that people have the ability to be useful to others and to take charge of their lives," Chalom said.

As a man of faith, Bishop Hanson still has a key question for those who don't believe in God.

"Where do you place your trust in times of need? Where do you place your hope in the time of a crisis of confidence?" Hanson said.

"An atheist will just deal with it, try to find a logical and reasonable solution," Van Maren said.

One particular question that bothers the Lows is when people ask "how can an atheist lead a good and moral life, without God?"

"The fact that I'm raising children and I want to be a good person and I like to do good things for other people -- that's not driven by religion," Alice Low said.

The Low children -- Morgan and Maddy -- say they've had no trouble making friends at school, even among those from religious families.

And religious scholars said some people who believe in God are also buying books written by atheists to see how the other side thinks, and perhaps test their faith against the arguments atheists make.


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Anonymous Nicest Girl said...
Just wrote about this article this morning.


Blogger twincats said...
Maybe I'm cynical, but I think that the daughters' ease in making friends with kids from religious families is more about a perceived opportunity to transmit their beliefs to those 'poor little lost souls' than acceptance or even tolerance.


Anonymous Anonymous said...
You atheists have it easy compared to us christians.


Anonymous Phant said...
Anonymous Said: "You atheists have it easy compared to us christians"

Are you kidding me????? LMAO!!!!!

Let me guess, your idea of persecution and hardship is waiting for Billy Graham to come on the Television and not being able to find your remote control because in your mind, Satan has hidden it from you, so therefore you have been persecuted.

"ONLY IN AMERICA" Do christians act like this and make such statements.


Blogger stronger now said...
Anonymous wrote:"You atheists have it easy compared to us christians."

If you think dealing with reality is so "easy", I suggest you try it sometime!


Anonymous Anonymous said...
stronger now..."If you think dealing with reality is so "easy", I suggest you try it sometime!"

I'm a christian, and I live in reality.

What makes you think that christians don't live in reality?

The only difference between us is that my beliefs are different from what yours are.


Blogger stronger now said...
No anony(pick a nickname will ya?) you live in a fantasyland of magic and mistery. Where invisible "evil" forces are loose in the world battling invisible "good" guys for your inner ghosty. A fantasyland where animals and plants can talk and there are friendly messengers that tell people to kill their children and commit all kinds of "godly" atrocities, and they are supposedly the "good" ones. A fantasyland where one guy lived in a fish(or whale)for three days, and axe head floated on water, unicorns existed, and you have telepathic powers to communicate with the most powerfull being in the universe, and a flying zombie is his son.

And you cannot back any of this up with any amount of credible evidence.

I think that you are enormously mistaken about believing any of this without credible evidence and your beliefs are at odds with objective reality.

Sorry, but there is a big difference between what you believe in(fantasyland without a shred of credible evidence) and what I "believe" in(objective reality with credible evidence up to your eyeballs).


Anonymous Anonymous said...
Stronger Now........"And you cannot back any of this up with any amount of credible evidence."

Nor can you atheists prove that none of this stuff ever happened. Christianity and God's ways are beyond human reasoning and understanding. The human mind is limited when it comes to such things.

As far as me not living in reality, I do not sit around living in a fantasy world like you think I do.

I too have a really good job, I have 3 kids, and I enjoy life just like anyone else. Like I said, I have different beliefs than what you atheists have.

So don't start wining about how hard life (Reality) is for you atheists. It's just as hard for us christians. We are not immune to pain and stress either.


Blogger stronger now said...
Anonymouse,

"Nor can you atheists prove that none of this stuff ever happened."

The one that makes the claim bears the burden of proof. I cannot disprove your fairytale anymore than you can disprove the existence of leprechauns. So it would seem your fairytale belief system is just as credible as any other fairytale ever invented by man.

"Christianity and God's ways are beyond human reasoning and understanding."

So we are just supposed to accept everything that doesn't make sense?

"The human mind is limited when it comes to such things."

Then tell me how YOUR human mind made the conclusion that the bible is the word of god. Is it because it doesn't make sense?

"As far as me not living in reality, I do not sit around living in a fantasy world like you think I do."

So you really don't believe that invisible "evil" forces are loose in the world battling invisible "good" guys for your inner ghosty, animals and plants can talk and there are friendly messengers that tell people to kill their children and commit all kinds of "godly" atrocities, one guy lived in a fish(or whale)for three days, and axe head floated on water, unicorns existed, and you have telepathic powers to communicate with the most powerfull being in the universe, and a flying zombie is his son?

"So don't start wining about how hard life (Reality) is for you atheists."

It was you who started the whining here pal, that was you. Remember this:

"You atheists have it easy compared to us christians."

If you claim it was another anony then you'll have to admit it wasn't a wise decision to ignore my advice to pick a nickname. Of course that is something that anyone who uses human reasoning would conclude. Better not use any, it'll get you in trouble with your imaginary friend.


Anonymous Anonymous (I'm not changing my name) said...
Stronger Now........"The one that makes the claim bears the burden of proof."

I don't have to prove anything. Jesus did what he needed to do, and if you and others cannot accept it, then that is simply not my problem. You are the one's who are putting yourselves in danger of eternal suffering and torment, so it is you who is facing a burden. Not me.

Stronger Now......"So we are just supposed to accept everything that doesn't make sense?"

You think evolution makes sense?

Funny how we supposedly came from monkeys and fish, however if that's the case why haven't the fish and monkeys of today not evolved into humans yet? I'm waiting for this to happen and it still has not happened yet. Plus why are there still monkeys and fish left in the world today? Please explain this brilliant theory of evolution. It seems to have flaws and contradictions in it.

Stronger Now......."Then tell me how YOUR human mind made the conclusion that the bible is the word of god. Is it because it doesn't make sense?"

There is other evidence outside of the bible such as "The Dead Sea Scrolls", and the fact that there has been some ancient artifacts found such as chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea.

Stronger Now....."So you really don't believe that invisible "evil" forces are loose in the world"

Yes, I do believe those invisible evil forces exist, and you are someone who is being influenced by these same forces. This site is living proof of these invisible evil forces. None of you realize it because the evil forces who you cannot see have taken control of your mind and have convinced you and several others on here that they do not exist. Of course they want you to believe they don't exist, and they have convinced you that they do not exist. You are all being manipulated by a higher and evil power called Satan, and none of you don't even realize it.

Satan and his evil forces are having a really good time with you folks here on "Ex-C.Net". They've got all of you exactly where they want you.


Blogger stronger now said...
"I don't have to prove anything."

You do if you expect anyone to believe your claims.

"You are the one's who are putting yourselves in danger of eternal suffering and torment, so it is you who is facing a burden. Not me."

So, your saying we should just believe your claims of us being in some sort of danger, just because you said so. Why?

"You think evolution makes sense?"

It makes more sense to me than any other idea of the origins of man because it has credible evidence that supports it.

"Funny how we supposedly came from monkeys and fish, however if that's the case why haven't the fish and monkeys of today not evolved into humans yet?"

"Plus why are there still monkeys and fish left in the world today?"

Because evolution doesn't work that way. If you would like to know how the theory of evolution actually works, go to

http://www.talkorigins.org/

and find out.

"There is other evidence outside of the bible..."

Hold on. If you can use your human mind to make conclusions based on evidence, regardless of how faulty the evidence, then you are using your human intellect to tell you what to believe and not some supernatural entity. Shame on you for trusting your own understanding.

".... such as "The Dead Sea Scrolls", and the fact that there has been some ancient artifacts found such as chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea."

How is that evidence of the supernatural presence in reality?

Oh and those wheels, see here:

http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/01/25/pharaohs-chariots-found-in-red-sea.htm

Seems more and more like a hoax. Those "wheels" were never brought to the surface, never "found" again, never tested in a laboatory and no one has been back to the place where they were "found" because the guy that "found" them forgot where it was.

"Yes, I do believe those invisible evil forces exist, and you are someone who is being influenced by these same forces. This site is living proof of these invisible evil forces. None of you realize it because the evil forces who you cannot see have taken control of your mind and have convinced you and several others on here that they do not exist. Of course they want you to believe they don't exist, and they have convinced you that they do not exist. You are all being manipulated by a higher and evil power called Satan, and none of you don't even realize it.

Satan and his evil forces are having a really good time with you folks here on "Ex-C.Net". They've got all of you exactly where they want you."

See, I told you that you weren't living in reality. Thanks for playing.


Anonymous Anonymous said...
"I don't have to prove anything."

Stronger now...
"You do if you expect anyone to believe your claims."

So do you atheists. You have to prove that there is no God if you expect anyone to believe your claims, and that includes evolution. So prove it Strongernow.

Strongernow......
"So, your saying we should just believe your claims of us being in some sort of danger, just because you said so. Why?"

Would you rather take the chance of frying in hell?

Plus why should anyone believe any of the claims you atheists make about there not being a God? Touche!

Strongernow....."Because evolution doesn't work that way. If you would like to know how the theory of evolution actually works, go to

http://www.talkorigins.org/

and find out."

And to borrow from one of your comments strongernow:

So, your saying we should just believe claims about atheism just because a bunch of scientists said so. Why?

"such as "The Dead Sea Scrolls", and the fact that there has been some ancient artifacts found such as chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea."

Strongernow......."How is that evidence of the supernatural presence in reality?"

Because it lines up with what the bible says that's why.

As far as the article that you sent me the link to, once again why should I believe it? After all it is an atheist article, and I'm sure that they will do everything they can to discredit christianity.

Strongernow........"See, I told you that you weren't living in reality."

Oh really?????? Prove that I am not living in reality. The burden falls back on you strongernow.


Blogger .:webmaster:. said...
And this is the reason I get tired of these angry Christian trolls. They really don't have a clue on how to think logically.

Anony-bot: Allah is the one true GOD. Prove that HE isn't.


Blogger stronger now said...
"You have to prove that there is no God if you expect anyone to believe your claims..."

No, It doesn't work that way and I already explained why.

But perhaps you don't understand the definition of atheism.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a god(s). It makes no claim other than one lacks belief. If you want me to believe your fantastical claims, you have to pony up some evidence. Quite frankly I don't really care what you believe. But if you expect me to believe it as well, show me some credible evidence. Also, if you don't wish to believe in evolution, fine. I don't care.

"Would you rather take the chance of frying in hell?"

If you could provide credible evidence for a hell, then perhaps I'd be persuaded to believe in it as well. But I should also remind you that if you're worshipping the wrong god then you'll be frying in it's hell.

About believing in supernatural things because of a wagon wheel an a copy of biblical texts:

"Because it lines up with what the bible says that's why."

Ahh. So would you agree then that leprechauns exist because someone once found gold buried in ireland?

"Prove that I am not living in reality."

Oh... I think your doing a fine job of that on your own.


Anonymous Anonymous said...
Strongernow......"No, It doesn't work that way and I already explained why."

It doesn't matter what you already explained. Back up the claim that there is "No God".

Strongernow....."But perhaps you don't understand the definition of atheism."

The definition does not matter. Just because you don't believe does not prove that God does not exist.

Strongernow......"Ahh. So would you agree then that leprechauns exist because someone once found gold buried in ireland?"

No, because that is not in the bible, and the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the bible is authentic so that is credible evidence.

"Prove that I am not living in reality."

Strongernow......."Oh... I think your doing a fine job of that on your own."

Your opinion doesn't matter strongernow. It does not prove that I am not living in reality. Your statement is not based on fact, it is based on your own personal opinion, and you know what they say about opinions?

Just remember Christians like myself would say that you are not living in reality.


Blogger .:webmaster:. said...
Anony-bot:

RA is the one true GOD! Prove that HE's not!


Blogger stronger now said...
"Back up the claim that there is "No God"."

I never claimed that there was no god. I claimed that I lacked a belief in a god. The reason I don't believe in one is because there is no credible evidence for one.

"Your statement is not based on fact, it is based on your own personal opinion, and you know what they say about opinions?"

They're what prop up a belief in god?


"...the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the bible is authentic so that is credible evidence."

They are credible evidence that your opinion about the supernatural was shared by ancient hebrews who also had no credible evidence to back up their god claim.

So.

How do the dead sea scrolls prove the bible claims of the supernatural?


Blogger stronger now said...
I'm only doing this out of boredom webmaster Dave.

I think the farce is strong with this one.


Anonymous Anonymous said...
.:webmaster:. said...

Anony-bot:

RA is the one true GOD! Prove that HE's not!

Sorry to inform you WM, but Apophis is the one true God in case you did not know.


Blogger .:webmaster:. said...
I love SG1.

However, I happen to know that your god is just an alien parasitical symbiot.

You can't fool me.


Anonymous Sci-Fi Nut said...
LOL!

That's pretty funny WM. I wonder if Pharaoh Ramsey was a Go'auld also.

It seems that Baal is the only and true God, due to the fact that all the rest of them have already been killed off.

Maybe we should all start worshipping Baal as the one and true God since he has survived all of the other one's and since he has been able to clone himself.


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