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encouraging ex-Christians
News of interest to former Christians
The Roman Catholic Church has vowed to "fight the Devil head-on" by training hundreds of priests as exorcists.
Father Gabriele Amorth, 82, the Vatican's Exorcist in Chief, announced the initiative amid the Church's concerns about growing worldwide interest in Satanism and the occult.
A still from the 1974 controversial horror classic The Exorcist; Vatican to create more exorcists to tackle 'evil'
The 1974 horror film ‘The Exorcist’ is supposedly based on real events
According to plans being considered, each bishop would have a group of priests in his diocese who were specially trained in exorcism and on hand to take action against "extreme Godlessness".
Fr Amorth said: "Thanks be to God that we have a Pope who has decided to fight the Devil head-on.
"Now bishops are to be obliged to have a number of established exorcists for their diocese. Too many bishops are not taking this seriously and are not delegating their priests in the fight against the Devil. You have to hunt high and low for a proper, trained exorcist."
He went on: "Thankfully Pope Benedict XVI believes in the existence and danger of evil, from the time he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith."
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The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the oldest Vatican department, deals with promoting and safeguarding Roman Catholic beliefs.
It was headed by the Pope when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, from 1982 until his election as Pope in 2005.
Fr Amorth said that during his time at the department the Pope warned humanity of the risks it faces from the Devil.
He added: "I remember a meeting we exorcists had with the Holy Father last year, in which he implored us to follow our mission as exorcists."
Fr Paolo Scarafoni, another exorcism expert who lectures at the Vatican, said interest in Satanism and the occult had grown as people lost their faith in the Church.
He added: "People suffer and think that the Devil can help solve their problems."
The Vatican is concerned that young people are being exposed to the influence of Satanism through the media, rock music and the Internet.
Under Canon Law 1172 all priests can perform exorcisms. But in reality only a select few are ever called on to do so.
The rite of exorcism involves a series of gestures and prayers to invoke the power of God and stop the "demon" influencing its victim.
Fr Amorth added that Pope Benedict XVI wanted to reinstate use of the prayer said to St Michael the Archangel, believed to be the prime protector against evil.
He said: "The prayer is useful not only for priests but for lay people. For example if a lay person knows someone who is possessed and there is no exorcist available they can intervene by saying this prayer, commanding the demon to leave that person.
The prayer to St Michael the Archangel was sidelined in the 1960s by Pope John XXIII during the Second Vatican Council. It was traditionally recited at the end of Mass.
• A Roman Catholic bishop has caused fury in Spain by claiming that some teenagers "want to be abused".
Bishop Bernardo Álvarez of Tenerife told a newspaper: "There are 13-year-olds who are are in agreement and even want it; even, if you don't watch out, provoking you."
A spokesman for the 58-year-old bishop said he had never intended to justify "the abhorrent phenomenon of the sexual abuse of minors."
Last year the Pope stated that rebuilding trust in the clergy was an urgent task.
STORY LINK
I think we should start calling the pope "Captain Howdy".
What a marooon!
In this era, there are some who ascribe mental illness to "possession by daemons".. Sad, really sad...
Anybody else find it difficult to take seriously people who believe this tripe?
I thought "daemons" were those animal things which everyone has in the world of "The Golden Compass?"
I hate your comment, but I love your product.
Lost their way? Did they ever have the way?
When the Benny Hinn show started the comedy portions it was really great, but Stronger Now ruined it for me...
Now now now 'Stronger', tell clair here you really didn't mean to burst her bubble, like ya did, ooookay [g]
I do want to know Stronger, when Benny HINN was on your tv set, did you throw POPCORN at him, as I would have?
ATF (who is just funnin with stronger)
I couldn't watch Hinn without throwing something!
"The rite of exorcism involves a series of gestures and prayers to invoke the power of God..."
Like the Hokey Pokey?
"You put the right god in.
You put the wrong god out.
You put the right god in and start actin' all devout.
You do the exorcism and you cast the demon out.
That's what it's all about!"
-- Martin Luther
So, I suppose Stronger's brilliant variant on the Hokey Pokey is just the thing. :)
By the way, mocking the saints has about the same effect. All you're left to do is sweep up the little pile of dust that they shake off their sandals when they leave your door.
As has often been observed here, laughter is the best response to absurdity.
LMAO
Now that is funny!
whys this here? catholics are not christians
---
Any-Mouse,
So if catholics aren't xtians, then I guess they worship a different creator god, than you do, yes?
You might have a point though, in that each xtian sect forms their own custom god, from their cherry picking/interpretation of the fabled scriptures.
Who knows, maybe we actually have 3000 xtian gods roaming the universe, each one being duly created by simplistic xtian minds.
As I always suspected, gods are created by 'man', and not the reverse.
Let the heavenly god war games commence.
FYI....I'm presently selling tickets for this attraction.
We also are offering a chance to win back-stage visitation passes, so you can meet each god before he/she might meet their demise in the heavenly gladiator arena.
Next months scheduled event, will be a battle between the victorious god and the devil himself.
Tickets are on sale starting tomorrow.
A word of warning though....You'll need to bring plenty of ice and water for this event, as we're told those hell fires can make one quite parched.
ATF (Who is also selling Get-Out-of-Hell passes, for those sinners who feel they might get stuck in hell. If you buy one today, the cost will only be a mere $6.66 per person)
"whys this here? catholics are not christians"
You are right. Mormons are not christians either, and the "Church of God" is a cult.
Southern Baptists are the only "TRUE CHRISTIANS", and we are the only one's who have the correct interpretation of the bible.
So get into a good bible believing "Southern Baptist" Church, where the word of God is truly taught authentically.
These other churches and other denominations teach false doctrine.
Catholics are most certainly Christians. In fact, they are the Christians that have been blessed with the fullness of truth.
Dear "Annonymous" have you ever looked into the definition of Catholic. Let me enlighten you:
-universal in extent
-involving all
-of interest to all
-pertaining to the whole Christian body or church
Unlike other Christian sects, Catholic Christians profess a faith that is universal and open to everyone. As well, you can also say that the word "Catholic" references that the truth, as revealed by God, in its entirety, is accepted by the Catholic faith. We don't reject portions of the revealed truth because we, as humans, don't agree with it. Hence the fact that the Catholic faith has been blessed with the fullness of truth.
"Marc!!!"
--------
Now Stronger, what-EVER makes you think it might be our resident troll marc? [g]
It just might be a clone of marc that posted, you know, one that was made with his genes.
ATF (who thinks all xtian sects are equal...that is, equally deluded)
It's hilarious to watch them squabble over which of the absurdities is somehow to be taken seriously.
Back to the subject of the original post -- the servants of a non-existent god are going to go about casting out non-existent demons. Classic.
"Catholics are most certainly Christians. In fact, they are the Christians that have been blessed with the fullness of truth."
You mean "Watered Down" truth Luke.
Catholics are also guilty of "Idolatry" when they worship the Virgin Mary instead of the risen Savior Jesus.
Luke Said:
"Unlike other Christian sects, Catholic Christians profess a faith that is universal and open to everyone. the catholic faith has been blessed with the fullness of truth"
You mean "The Catholic Faith" along with it's "Liberal Watered down message" which represents a false gospel from the "REAL TRUTH"
Catholics are all hell bound.
Jesus is the only way, not Virgin Mary.
Let me help you put the hay down where's the goats can get it.
Suthern Baptists are cooler because they believe in the absurd myth instead of the mother of the absurd myth. They're also much smarter because they scraped the hull of the ship of fools of about 1700 years worth of fanciful explanations of the aforementioned absurdity and repainted it with a nice new coat of bullshit.
One could indeed say such a thing, but to do so is to delude oneself.
I would phrase it thus:
"...the word 'Catholic' references that the members of that faith believe themselves to have access to the entirety of an alleged 'truth' supposedly revealed by a god."
Before you start attributing 'truth' to a god, you have to first prove that it actually exists outside the dimly-lit, labyrinthine hallways of your own beliefs.
Unless you *like* chasing your own tail down dimly-lit, labyrinthine hallways, that is...
True Christians will never condemn another person. Only God can judge with perfect objectivity, not man.
True Christians are Christians in their hearts. They love Jesus with all their heart and endeavor to be like Him.
Going around telling other Christians that they are going to hell is not Christian behavior.
Please understand that we can both be true Christians in our hearts and thus, be brothers in Christ.
May God bless you.
Luke
"True Christians will never condemn another person. Only God can judge with perfect objectivity, not man."
True christians will not worship the virgin Mary Luke.
I have every right to point out false beliefs anytime someone who claims to be a christian teaches false doctrine.
I make my call based on the word of God. The word of God plainly teaches that Jesus is the only way, not Virgin Mary.
Your comments about "Only God can judge them" is your way of avoiding your own responsibility for beleving in false doctrine, which is typical of most liberal so called christians.
Since you both claim to be "True Christians™", and thus, would each claim to know the "One Universal Truth®", I'd like to take this time to personally invite you over to the thread titled, "There is NO GOD". It is there, that you will find a Buddhist who goes by the moniker "Amitabha". I direct you to this thread, because, like the both of you, he clings to his "spirtiual" convictions, insisting that he knows the "One Universal Truth®".
I find this all very interesting, as, although he doesn't believe in "God", he believes there is a Supreme entity..i.e.. a "mind", that plays the role of "God". Oh, and just to give you the heads-up, he too, can "prove" that his philosophy - the Buddhist philosophy - is the "One Universal Truth®".
And of course, as any critically thinking adult knows, all three philosophies CANNOT be the "One Universal Truth®". So, while the following quotation is very noble in it's intent, it is philosophically/doctrinally impossible:
Luke: "Please understand that we can both be true Christians in our hearts and thus, be brothers in Christ."
No, your respective doctrines contradict; they are incongruous(as Southern Baptist pointed out).
So, as I was saying---instead of sparring with us stubborn, closed-minded "Atheists"..i.e..those of us who think that all three worldviews are bullshit, I think it would be far more intersting, and also, a far better way to "hone" your debating skills, to engage another supernaturalist/spiritualist. Come on....give it a shot, won't you? After all, his eternal "soul" is at stake---or, in the Buddhist' case, his "recyclable soul" is at stake.
*To locate the thread, just look for any post by "Amitabha" in the recent comments section.
'Best of luck to all challengers!... and may we once and for all, be enlightened to the real Truth®!!
Shalom!
Here we acknowledge the truth: there are no gods. Sorry to break your bubble boys. Jim Earl
I am not going to waste any time debating atheists on this site, because it would simply be a waste of time. Only God will be able to reveal himself to you, not I.
My argument is Luke, due to the fact that he claims to be a christian. It is my responsibility to call anyone out who claims to be a christian, who goes around teaching false doctrine.
It is the christian's responsibility to rebuke other christians (Or those who claim to be christians) for their wrong doings and wrong teachings. It is not the christian's job to rebuke atheists who do not believe.
Our only job in regards to atheists is to share the gospel and that is it. It is not our job to try and convince you of the truth. Only the Holy Spirit can do so.
Once christians plant the seeds of the Gospel Message by sharing it with non-believers, it is then up to God and his Holy Spirit to make those seeds grow, and convict them of their sins. It is not up to me to convert non-believers.
I am here only to rebuke Luke for his false claims.
I have no interest or desire in debating people who have already made up their minds about there not being a God.
I prefer to let God prove himself to you. I simply cannot, however I can truly say that God has proven himself to me personally. I hope he does the same for the rest of you.
You are making an accusation of idolatry that is completely unfounded. Absolutely NO Catholic worships the virgin Mary. The birth of Jesus marked a special beginning of God's plan of salvation. Jesus, both true man and true God, through the mystery of the Holy Trinity also honors his earthly mother, as commanded. Yes, the mother He created. It may blow your mind but honoring Jesus' mother, the spiritual mother of mankind, is most certainly appropriate. We Catholics, at times, do make supplications to her and she intercedes for many, many Christians. What good Son can resist a request from His own mother. Jesus is the greatest Son and you can be assured that honoring His mother with your prayerful requests is not blasphemy. You only need to look into the Bible to see that Jesus's first miracle came by request from His mother, our mother, Saint Mary.
All Catholics that are true Christians (as there are of course false Christians in any Christian denomination) know that it is Jesus that is their savior. The Catholic faith teaches nothing different.
Baptist said: "which is typical of most liberal so called christians."
You are making accusations of my character which is not favorable Christian behavior. My wife and I have no problems acknowledging our sinful nature, God intervened in our life years ago and returned us both to His Church. We most certainly were liberal Christians before God intervened (if we could be called Christians back then) but I certainly don't think that we fall under the "liberal" Christian category anymore. We endeavor to obey all of God's commandments, including the Pope's request that none of us Catholics reject life with contraceptives. Yes, that is correct, if my wife and I don't want more children, we choose abstinence during "high risk" times. Tell me dear Baptist, does that sound like liberal Christian behavior to you? Please dear Baptist, refrain from character attacks that are unfounded. If you wish to discuss the differences in our faith, by all means, I am open to all healthy & civil discussions about my savior Jesus Christ.
Baptist said: "I am here only to rebuke Luke for his false claims."
Dear Baptist, please show me in quotes, the false claims I have made.
I would like to share with you one of God's very precious desires when it comes to His children....it is Unity. God's plan was not to have multiple sects that tear His body and cause Him to suffer. I hope that someday you'll come to agree that there are true Christians under many different Christian denominations. I don't doubt that other Christians are still in a healthy communion with our Lord, although less healthy then if they had the fullness of Truth. The fullness of Truth would help to sustain them even more through all the trials and temptations of this world.
May God bless you,
Luke
Your posts sound just like the poster known as "Passerby" and "Norm".
Here is an example of Catholics like yourself being into false doctrine. As for Virgin Mary, it obvious that you have made her an idol. You are guilty of idolatry. Jesus is God so he does not need his mother for anything.
As for the Pope, he is nothing more than an overrated "Religious Political Icon".
Here is an example of the false doctrine that you believe in. I can provide more links if you wish Luke.
http://www.bible.ca/cath-overview-false-teaching.htm
Just in case you don't read everything that is on the site that I gave you a link to, here is a fine example of the idolatry that you and your wife live in. You both violate the 2nd commandment. Read for yourself.
FROM: http://www.bible.ca/cath-overview-false-teaching.htm
Worshipping idols, icons and images violates the 2nd commandment.
FACT: Catholics regularly bow down to idols, icons and images of Jesus, Mary and the apostles, kissing the feet of the statues and praying to them.
Historical note: The Pope deleted the 2nd of the 10 commandments so they could use statues & images in worship. They split the 10th commandment on coveting into two commandments so they could still have 10 in number. Don’t believe this? Look at the list of 10 commandments published by the Roman Catholic church! The issue here is not how the Ten Commandments are numbered, rather the issue is that most published lists of the 10 commandments do not include the words, "you shall not for yourself an idol". Open your Catholic Bible and look for yourself!
Why do you hear only what you want to hear? Which in this case, is nothing. I already explained that the Catholic faith in no way endorses the worship of Mary. We honor her as our God asks us to do. You will never find anything to substantiate your claims at an official Catholic Web site (please try www.vatican.va) and let me know where it says that Mary should be worshiped.
Please don't view this discussion as an ego battle as it is not. If together we humble ourselves, I'm certain we could come to see that we are both in love with Christ. As Christians I'm sure we could also both come to agree that it is never appropriate to go around condemning people we don't even know.
How did Jesus testify that what He was saying was true? He did so with miracles. God is immutable and He continues to testify with miracles.
Consider the predicted miracle of Fatima on October 13, 1917 to 70 thousand people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_sun
Consider the miracles witnessed by thousands between 1961 and 1965 in Garabandal Spain.
http://www.garabandal.com/
Consider the miracles of Me?ugorje that started in 1981.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me%C4%91ugorje
As in every time, most don't believe in God's miracles, His stamp of authenticity, just like those that didn't believe in Jesus' miracles. You might also notice that the seers in all these apparitions are Catholic Christians.
May God bless you,
Luke
I condemn "Catholic Beliefs", which are faulty. Did you even read the link to my last post? Did you even read what was on there Luke?
Here are some more examples of the false doctrine catholics are into:
Are Catholics Christian?
10 Scriptural Reasons Roman Catholics Are not Christian
http://www.born-again-christian.info/catholics.htm
#1 The Roman Catholic Church teaches that it is the only source of salvation for sinners. The Bible teaches the LORD Jesus Christ is the only Saviour.
#2 Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can forgive sins. The Bible teaches that forgiveness comes directly from God through faith in Christ, not through church membership or sacraments
#3 Catholics believe the lie that Baptism saves. Water baptism saves nobody. Salvation must precede water baptism
#4 Popes are infallible. The truth is only God is infallible, all men are corrupt
#5 Roman Catholic Priests and Leaders are infallible. This blasphemy is clearly exposed by recent publicity
#6 The Catholic Sacraments are essential for salvation. Nobody is saved by sacraments, but through faith in Christ alone
#7 The Catholic Church is the only correct interpreter of Scriptural doctrine. The Holy Spirit is the only Interpreter man needs.
#8 Transubstantiation; God is formed into a biscuit at the priest's command. This unbiblical idolatrous blasphemy is taken from Babylonian sun worship
#9 The Eucharist keeps from sin. Only genuine heart faith in Christ takes away sin
#10 The Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer and saviour. This hideous blasphemy puts Mary into the Trinity, and breaks her heart
For more details see:
http://www.born-again-christian.info/catholics.htm
Dibs on anything of value this lot o' buffoons happens to leave behind. Not that I'm expecting anything, mind you...
What did the bible say about a house being divided shall not stand? Looks like this house is about to come crumbling down with a really hard thud.
Please see all bold text below and tell me how you actually don't believe what Jesus is saying? When Jesus says "Amen, amen" in John 6:53, that is, when He repeats Himself, He is very serious. This specific teaching (of our need to eat His Body) was so hard that He even turned to His disciples and asked if they wanted to leave like the others. He didn't tell them (His disciples) in private that it was all a parable, as He did with other teachings, no, He asks if they want to leave!
All your other points are equally without foundation, yes, they are all false. You should actually see what we Christians believe for yourself. You'll find that all your points are completely non-existent within the Catholic faith. It really is unfortunate that so few people believe in God's revealed Truth.
I would recommend you go to the source of your faith, the Bible, not these silly Web sites. I really am sorry that you find it so hard to see God's word. This is why I'm using the Bible to hopefully help you see, by God's grace, that transubstantiation is sound Christian doctrine.
God bless,
Luke
Matthew 26
26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
Mark 14
22 While they were eating, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is my body."
23 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
24 He said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed for many.
Luke 22
19 Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me."
20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.
John 6
52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."
1 Corinthians 11
23 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,
24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.
28 A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
As for "The Silly Websites" that you say I am referring to. In case you haven't noticed, there is also scripture references to what I and many other christians claim about Catholics on those same sites Luke. I have looked those scripture references for myself, so what makes you think that what I am claiming is "FALSE"?
Are you saying that just because the scripture is mentioned on a website that it is no longer valid? Why would it make it less valid just because it was listed on a website Luke?
Here is a prime example of the false doctrine that you are involved in. This is from your one of your previous posts:
FROM LUKE:
"through the mystery of the Holy Trinity also honors his earthly mother, as commanded. Yes, the mother He created. It may blow your mind but honoring Jesus' mother, the spiritual mother of mankind, is most certainly appropriate. We Catholics, at times, do make supplications to her and she intercedes for many, many Christians. What good Son can resist a request from His own mother. Jesus is the greatest Son and you can be assured that honoring His mother with your prayerful requests is not blasphemy. You only need to look into the Bible to see that Jesus's first miracle came by request from His mother, our mother, Saint Mary."
You are a Pagan Luke. Your above statements prove just that. You are blasphemous, and before you say that "A true christian does not condemn another person" you are a Catholic, not a christian.
If you claim to be a christian, then you need to stop calling yourself a catholic, because you cannot be both.
FROM LUKE:
"Please don't view this discussion as an ego battle as it is not."
I do no view this as an ego battle. I view this as a battle for the truth.
You come on here talking about how great the Catholic Faith is and how it represents truth, which is the furthest thing from the truth.
Quoting scripture will do you no good Luke. I do not hear the words of a Pagan, and a false teacher of the word.
That's all Mary was. So you better start praying to Jesus, and Jesus alone. Mary does not hear your prayers, because Mary was a only a person who was used for God to complete his will.
Jesus is the one who sits at the right hand of the Father, not Mary.
Sheesh. Stupid, gynophobic, pseudo-monotheistic gits. You're grounded, both of you. Go to your rooms and do your homework, or something...
...Nah. Keep fighting. The more you squabble, the sooner we'll be rid of all of Christianity.
(pops Master of Puppets into Her CD player, then helps Herself to a piece of chocolate and another two fingers of Scotch)
I'm not so worried about the Writer's Strike getting resolved. If I need entertainment, I'll just read their posts instead.
BTW Luke, Mary does not intervene in any prayers period. Only Jesus does. Mary was nothing more than a lowly vessel that God used
----
To: You two bicking xtians here.
From: Voice of REASON
If 'god' is all-powerful and all-knowing (fill the rest of the all-everything's), then he wouldn't need Mary or even his son jesus, to tell him our wishes/prayers, nor would having jesus or mary beg god on our behalf, do anything to change god's mind.
After all, god does NOT change his mind, does he; and if he does, then you guy's have a very serious problem with your eternal future's then.
Same problem here, when one prays to 'saints' that are suppose to be up in heaven helping us out with this god character.
So how does this all work.
Does god have scheduled weekly meetings with jesus, mary and all those saints, so they can pull out their huge list of human request to them, and then try and convince god that this next person on the list, is deserving of a positive answer/result?
As others have pointed out repeatedly on this site, god is said to know the future, know all our needs, and even by us praying directly to this god, it would not influence him to change the future that he already knows is "to be".
Thanks xtians, for proving to me again, that praying to my pet rock is probably more effective, than waiting for your god to give his divine ASSistance.
ATF (who see's this bickering about religious fantasy, in the same realm as bickering about who will catch the biggest fish. It all fantasy talk !!)
P.S Any idea where AEB is hiding lately?
I must say that I am enjoying watching these two christians rip each other to shreds.
P.S Any idea where AEB is hiding lately?
AEB is very close by. *winks*
If you read your own references, it is never said no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. It is said "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.". This means that the FULLNESS of the means to salvation are through the Catholic Church, it does NOT say that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church.
Well dear Baptist, we'll have to agree to disagree. It truly is unfortunate that you cannot ackowledge that we are both Christians. I pray that someday God intervenes and forms all our Christian hearts to understand that we are one under His name, Lord Jesus Christ.
May God bless you and yours,
Luke
Down with christianity and all religious beliefs!
Clown 2:"Your cracker Is not the LORD"
Clown 1:"Is too. The bible says so."
Clown 2:"Is not, that's just silly. That part isn't supposed to be taken literally."
Clown 1:"Is too."
ect....ect....
Ever occur to either of you that you're both wrong?
Please continue.
Stronger now(who hopes a mormon comes in here to set them both straight)
Keep it up, soldiers for Christ!.... as the more you disagree on your supernatural mish-mash, the better we, the Free Thinkers; the better we, the proponents of a naturalistic Universe, look. Sh*t, at this rate, in another 2000 years, religion - and it's supernatural trimmings - will be abolished from the face of the planet! Yes, yes.... people will scoff, chuckle, and roll their eyes at the idea that people actually believed in "Buddha", "Jesus", and "Allah", the same way that Buddhists, Christians, and Muslims scoff at the idea that people used to believe in "Thor", "Odin", and "Great Spirit in Sky".
This is progress!...keep up the good work!
God 'less.
For the time being, nevermind a Mormon....as we have a real, live, Buddhist in our midst! Remember, it is HE, who has the "One Universal Truth®"!
Yoo hoo?....Amitabha?
fjell
To which I say: If that's true then, truly, as Christians in debate with one another you're all fucked, because for one reason or another God himself keeps pretty silent in these matters.
You'd think he'd want to come down and set the record straight once and for all - lay his "true" doctrine out in black and white minus the nebulous, confusing, passages that have allowed inter-denominational feuds to erupt and fester over centuries.
But. That God guy. He keeps his cards pretty close to his chest and lets the blood continue to fly here on Earth.
Which leaves all the people fighting pretty much with their theological dicks in their hands just yelling at each other, the way you two are now:
A) "My interpretation is correct! You're taking it all out of context and drawing non-sequitor conclusions."
B - "No, you are!"
A - "No, you are!"
etc, ad infinitum, ad absurdium, ad nauseum, ad in the paper
And as if that weren't a shit enough state of affairs, now we've even got to worry about the DEVIL throwing the Bible at us.
I tell you, boys. Fucked. Fucked is the word.
http://www.thechristiandefense.com/viewtopic.php?p=45541
fjell
"Well dear Baptist, we'll have to agree to disagree. It truly is unfortunate that you cannot ackowledge that we are both Christians."
It is truly unfortunate Luke that you believe Catholics are also christians, which is the furthest thing from the truth. You are deceived.
FROM LUKE:
"I pray that someday God intervenes and forms all our Christian hearts to understand that we are one under His name, Lord Jesus Christ"
As long as you are a Catholic Luke, God will not hear your prayers. Until you leave the corrupted Catholic Church and it's faith behind you will continue to be involved in a Pagan religion.
You need to repent, and reject Virgin Mary, and trust in Jesus alone. You then need to get into a good bible believing Southern Baptist Church which teaches the real truth and does not pray to Virgin Mary.
Do not be deceived by the corruptness of the Catholic Church. It will only lead you to eventual destruction. I'm sure if you could talk to the late "Pope John Paul II", he would tell you just how hot the flames of hell are right now.
I checked out, briefly, the discussion you referenced, and while skimming over it, found this gem:
Christian: "This wondrous gift of the resurrection is freely given to all. Believer or non believer alike. So we see that regarding this point both the just and the unjust are eternally indebted to that which Christ and Christ alone has freely provided for all."
LMAO! Great, so Jebus has provided us with some free dept? Um, "free"...."indebted"? FREE.....INDEPTED?!?!?!?
Of course, jfell, you are person of intelligence, so I needn't say more in that case. However, I'm not quite convinced that our Christian guests will "see" that the two concepts, "free", and "indepted", make an oxymoron.
So, for their benefit---"free"/"indepted" is an oxymoron, morons.
...even if he could be brought to see that...
...he'd doubtless think it was a fantastic debt.
But that phrase truly is one for the ages: "...the just and the unjust are eternally indebted to that which Christ and Christ alone has freely provided for all."
See? He provided it. For free. So we owe him. Because he gave it to us. For free. So we own him for it. Because he gave it to us.
For free.
So we own him for it...
God also requires us to pay it back by not only accepting Jesus into your life, but he also requires that you give 10 percent of your income.
No true Christian would make claims to know the mind of God. How would you know what God will and will not hear when it comes to prayers? How can you, little you, make claims about the salvific state of millions upon millions of Catholic Christians over the years? Yup, that takes one hefty load of arrogance and if you read the bible at all, God doesn't like that kind of attitude.
What kind of person is so self-righteous as to think that he can go around condemning people? If Jesus didn't go around condemning everyone, what makes you think that it's appropriate behavior?
Dear Baptist, if anyone truly cares about someone's salvation, they really only have two tools are their disposal. Prayer and Sacrifice. And...these prayers and sacrifices will be of little value unless there is humility. If you're wondering why I know this, let me tell you that it's straight from Luke 18:10-14 (below). I don't come up with anything from thin air, I use God's word.
The more I think about your posts, the more I realize that you may very well be a Baptist "imposter" of some kind. Your faith appears quite weak and completely unfounded on those virtues that Jesus taught. I do hope I'm wrong and that you do actually believe that Christ is your savior. If you don't, I sure hope that someone is praying & sacrificing for you because your blasphemy may very well be placing you at risk of eternal separation from God. I personally wouldn't wish this on anyone.
May God bless you,
Luke
Luke 18
10 "Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.'
13 But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.'
14 I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."
The only difference between the two is:
1) Southern Baptist is an arrogant Holier Than Thou Asshole.
2) Luke is just a "Let's be nice and show the love of Jesus" christian wimp who thinks he can kill "Southern Baptist" with kindness.
Keep it up guys, you are proving just how divided the universal church of christianity really is.
FROM LUKE:
"What kind of person is so self-righteous as to think that he can go around condemning people? If Jesus didn't go around condemning everyone, what makes you think that it's appropriate behavior"
Let me tell you something Luke. You apparently have never been outside of your little "Catholic Bubble", apparently. I also see Luke that you are making excuses and justifying your false beliefs by now starting to accuse me of being a false christian. You now pass judgment on me, when it "YOU" who is involved in false teachings and a Pagan religion. You pass judgment on me, because I am harsh with my rebukes. Well Luke, you will find that not all christians are nice and gentle with their rebukes, however I realize that most Catholics are not use to dealing with a "Southern Baptist" like myself.
You ask me what gives me the right to condemn others? Here is your answer:
Matthew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
I know you by your fruits Luke, because of your belief in Virgin Mary. All Southern Baptist Christians recognize Catholics as being nothing more than religious Pagans. You can ask any "Southern Baptist Church" Preacher and they will tell you that Catholics teach false doctrine. They can also back it up with scripture. Matter as fact we had a lesson at my church not too long ago about the false teachings of the Catholic Church.
You can deny it all you want Luke, however it is now obvious that you are a liberal religious pagan (Who claims to be a christian) who does not believe in correcting and rebuking others. Instead you believe in just giving someone a pat on the back and telling them that Jesus loves them.
FROM LUKE:
"I sure hope that someone is praying & sacrificing for you because your blasphemy may very well be placing you at risk of eternal separation from God. I personally wouldn't wish this on anyone"
Luke, I would not talk if I were you. I just got off the phone with my preacher and he says you are the one who needs prayer.
If anyone is committing blasphemy it is "YOU" Luke. Don't you dare talk down to me. You are in no position to judge me whatsoever.
You are the one who is involved in Idolatry by placing such a huge emphasis on Virgin Mary. That is the kind of thing that will separate you from God for eternity Luke.
If you don't like my harsh and aggressive approach, and if it offends you, that's too bad my friend. I do not believe in being "Politically Correct" and I do not take a nice guy approach when it comes to people like you who continue to insult my lord Jesus Christ by placing such a huge emphasis on Virgin Mary.
Anytime I see someone who teaches false doctrine and blasphemy I am going to be very harsh with my rebuke, so deal with it Luke, or end this conversation one.
You are the one who has committed blasphemy Luke. Your scripture quoting does not mean a thing, because you are twisting and turning it around to further your argument and it is your way of avoiding the fact that you are teaching false doctrine. I do not apologize for calling you out, and stepping on your toes.
Unlike you, I am not afraid to be harsh anytime I see someone in error. You make it sound like Jesus was a wimp and he was not. Even God himself will not tolerate false teachings. God will punish people like you Luke. I base everything I say on God's word. You apparently believe in nothing but "Love and forgiveness" only. You apparently do not believe in the Wrath of God, which is typical of most "Good ol' Boy Catholics" like yourself.
A true christian does not confess their sins to a priest nor do they pray to Virgin Mary.
So therefore you are not witnessing an argument between two christians. You are witnessing an argument between a christian and a "Catholic Pagan" who teaches false doctrine. Luke is a false teacher who has been deceived by the Father of lies named Satan.
Luke is no better off than the rest of you Atheists are.
Why did Peter fail to mention the “Virgin Mary”? Surely if all popes worshipped Mary and leaned on her for salvation, and they have, as the evidence will show, and if Peter was the first pope, why does he not praise and adore Mary in the same vein as other popes? The question demands an answer.
But here is another matter all Catholics should seriously consider. The wise men who were led by God’s star to see the child Jesus “bowed down and worshipped Him” (Matthew 2:10-12). If God intended that Mary be venerated, why didn’t the wise men bow down and worship them instead of only Him? Why was Mary not bowed down to? Even the Catholic Bible has the wise men bowing down to Jesus only. Either the biblical testimony is wrong and the Catholic Hierarchy is right or the Catholic Hierarchy is wrong and the biblical evidence is right. It cannot be both ways.
Additionally, nowhere in scripture are we able to find one example of Mary, or even an image of Mary, being bowed down to and/or venerated. This cultic practice was invented centuries later by the Roman Catholic Hierarchy, not by God. It is of the earth, not of heaven.
To sum up, Mary was the Divinely chosen woman to be the channel for the incarnation in flesh of the second person of the Holy and Divine Trinity, God the Son. Not to be prayed to.
In the true Church of Jesus Christ our Lord Jesus Christ has all the preeminence. In the Church of Rome Mary, by order of the Roman Antichrists, has all the preeminence.