Funny how most chritians uphold thier leaders, no matter what they do. After serving his time,(if he gets any at all), he'll be baaack!; In a different church, or possible the same one. Roger...A/A

"HIS MESSAGE WAS GOOD & CLEAR; IT CAME FROM THE BIBLE"
is it just me, or are all christians apathetic to the crimes & actions of their fellow comrades? why is it that no matter how henious the crime or offense, as long as his "message was good & from the buybull" it matters not?!?
they deserve the term, "sheep". they will follow anyone who can talk a good game. they are not allowed to exercise any discernment on their own. that is so dangerous, not being able to think for yourselves, having some "holy man" tell you what to do, when to do it,why to do it, etc.... the problem with this "forgiveness", is that it allows all types of "creeps" into the fold, only to attack again.


oh how i thank the day the scales were lifted from my eyes & i was delivered from 35 years of "bleating". thank you Dave for this website!!!

Honestly, "the money was just resting in my account".

Father Ted Crilley

Why is it so hard to believe that the xtians support their clergy through thick and thin, no matter what they do?

I mean, if you look at what they worship, it makes perfect sense!

I guess your right twincats; They,do worship thier leaders who are supposed to be god's spokesperson, so, why not be like the god of the bible, which allows, kidnapping,rape, murder of young and old, lying, stealing, robbing, slavery, incest, deformed mentally and physically, tormenting "with" evil he created, etc. for now. Peace, Roger A/A

What are you going to do about " kidnapping,rape, murder of young and old, lying, stealing, robbing, slavery, incest, deformed mentally and physically, tormenting."?

I see complaining but I don't see what ideas you hold to make this world a better place.

Since you are a freethinker and you found your freedom, why don't you be kind to us an share your ideas in this forum for the betterment of humanity.

What do we do NOW to fix humanity?

anony, for starters, get rid of all religious illusions, and give your money to a better cause, instead of gullible folks giving thier hard earned money to these con-artist preachers who spend 90% of the weak minded's money on themselves to live in luxury. Build more schools to teach people how to gain back thier sanity after being brainwashed most of thier lives by just listening to someone else whom claims theres a god who will take care of all the worlds problems and/or reading "a book" full of myths, and bullshit. Start a charity of "one" source that people can give what they can, "knowing" thier money is being spent for a good cause. Lastly, make any crime a whole hell of a lot punishable, and I believe people will evolve in a much kinder environment. Thats all I can think of at this time. Thanks, Roger..p.s. Do you have any better ideas yourself?

Did you know that the pastors who were alerted to the situation: Shannon Paz, Gerald Thurman and David Burleson - went outside the church to discuss their findings before even asking Roddy about it? That’s right, they waited until Roddy left town with his family, then held their “secret meeting” to discuss who they should tell next! They also weren’t taking very good care of this pastor. In this area, it will take $125,000 a year to replace him, yet he was only officially being paid $52,000. No wonder why he became disillusioned and felt unappreciated - he was! Why didn’t anyone take care of him so temptation wouldn’t have been as strong? In addition, Pastor Clyde asked to be given the chance to apologize to the congregants, and was denied that opportunity.

It sounds to me like there have been a myriad of sins in this case. Shouldn’t we offer all involved the forgiveness, grace and mercy that Christ offers us? After all, isn’t that the whole reason he died on the cross?

Anonymous,

Is that you, Roddy?

No...it's not Roddy. It's PAM CLYDE, his wife!!

Tell me something, how do you become an "EX"Christian? If you once believed that you were born again, or saved, and believed what the bible teaches about salvation, that "nothing can pluck you out of His hand" or once saved always saved, then there is no such person as an "Ex"Christian, however, if you believe you are such a person...well then I guess you weren't ever a Christian to begin with! BUT that is not why I am writing this.

Whatever the pastor did, yes, it was wrong. He was in a place of responsibility and was being held at a higher standard than the rest of the staff and congregation, rightfully so, HOWEVER, who left him alone to carry it all?? The church financial staff should have NEVER given the authority of the finances to ANY one person, or left it so available that ANYONE could steal anything. No excuses for him, IF the "church" was not really taking care of him, SHAME on them, there were enough seasoned, meat fed, men and women in that congregation to have been paying closer attention to the needs of the pastors family. Does NOT make it ok for him (Clyde)to take it upon himself to take what he may have felt he deserved...BUT there were many things wrong in the congregation... Those "seasoned" Christians, along with the pastor, should have been "preaching" instead of just "teaching" and guiding the "flock" to a real walk with Christ. You know, I visited there for a while. Loved the messages, but never felt "convicted" about anything and obviously many others (members or regular attenders) didn't feel much conviction about anything either. I saw the same women week after week wearing dresses, tops, pants, like they were dressed to go to a bar...some of them maybe still dressed from being in the bar from the night before. The smell of alcohol was so heavy on one of the childrens church workers, that I could smell it on her without her even opening her mouth. Why don't people say HEY! Have some respect for people who are trying to serve God. That is a little thing, but when people who are searching for truth...at the bars themselves week after week, but getting up and going to church somewhere to see if there is something else for their life and they feel like they are just seeing leftovers from the night before...well, like I said, there are many Christians there who should be standing up for what is right, not what just "brings them in" but wants to see people saved and changed. There may be other problems in that congregation to come about later unless someone steps up and follows what scripture really says about "church".
And if that was really Pam, I am sorry, sister, I truly am. I hope you stand with your family, hope the kids are doing ok. This is tough, but I'm sure you've been reminded to look at David..still a man after God's own heart.
Take care, and to the "exchristians", hope you can find something in your life to stick with and stand up for and not flake out on.
Oh, "scout" I guess you spoke to some of the congregation to get your "thoughts" for your comments, surely you did to accuse them of being apathetic to Clyde's actions. Your verbage indicates you may be somewhat intelligent but your assuming content....speaks louder.

Tammy wrote, "Your verbage indicates you may be somewhat intelligent but your assuming content....speaks louder."

It's absolutely ironic how Christians can throw out statements like this and are oblivious to the fact their entire religious premise is built on assumptions, presuppositions and church-speak.

Tammy, your "No true Scotsman" fallacy is typical of all dogmatic cults and movements. If you ever come to understand why the "Not a true Christian" rhetoric was written by the founders of your cult, you'll understand why that kind of thinking is fallacious.

Hmmm...I did not use the term "TRUE Christian" I said Christian..."One who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ" that is a definition from Websters, not mine, not even from the bible... I am married, no need to say I am 'truly married', I am caucasion..don't need to add that I am 'white' caucasion... I simply said that the term exchristian can't really be a correct term, because by the definition of the word (christian) it is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, who taught that once we believed and He healed, there was no 'taking it back' for Him. "No true fallacy" is a typical outcry of a non-believer. Hey, don't you remember from your "believing" days that Jesus said, while He was dying, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do"
And as for my question to 'scout' I REALLY want to know if in fact he gathered his information from members, or even 1 member, who was ok with what Clyde did. THAT comment was not related to my belief of scripture as to what the definition of a Christian is, I guess you missed some of what I wrote.
Being a Christian has to do with faith, not BLIND faith. The faith of a Christian comes from believing what is written in the bible, that the bible is the inspired word of God. Either you believe it or you don't.
If you will look up the No True Fallacy, you will see that you have called the wrong "foul". But do try again.

I am also curious to know what "opened your eyes" to help you decide to denounce your faith in the bible, God, Jesus..more interested to know, what was it you were believing in and trusting in? Will you carry on this conversation with me?

Tammy: Hmmm...I did not use the term "TRUE Christian" I said Christian..."One who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ" that is a definition from Websters, not mine, not even from the bible...

"One who professes belief".[bold added]

profess:

1. To affirm openly; declare or claim: "a physics major [who] professes to be a stickler when it comes to data"

2. To make a pretense of; pretend: "top officials who were deeply involved with the arms sales but later professed ignorance of them"

belief:

1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.

2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.

3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

Ref: American Heritage

This is very simple; there should be no contest here, but for some reason, there always is, where "Christianity" is concerned.

Tammy,

A "belief" is a belief. The end. In other words, human beings can, at one point in time, profess belief in some "thing", or some "person", and then at later point in time, change their mind. I mean, honestly now, the changing of one's mind isn't exactly unheard of, so I really don't understand it when Christians imply that the "Christian belief" is somehow special, as if it is the philosophical equivilent of having herpes.

But let's look at an analogy:

Did you, Tammy, as a child, ever profess belief in Santa Claus, either to your family, or to your childhood friends? Remember? Try.

In any case, assuming "yes" for the sake of argument---then is it fair to assume that as a grown, healthy-minded adult, that you no longer believe in said red-suit-donning-fat-man-who-travels-around-the-globe-in-a-magical-reindeer-powered-sleigh?

Again, assuming "yes", my next question, and point, would be...

Would it be reasonable or logical for me, or anyone else, to come along and tell you that you never really believed in Ol' St Nick?... with the implication being, that you cannot EVER change your mind about something?...specifically, after reevaluating it at a later time, with a different mind-set? 'Listening.

Tammy goes on: I am married, no need to say I am 'truly married', I am caucasion..don't need to add that I am 'white' caucasion...

Agreed!!!..both are totally redundant and unnesessary! Bravo! So I wonder why the vast majority of Christians who come waltzing in here make that distinction, usually in an attempt to disassociate themselves from those "false Christians"(?)

Oh, and before I forget---speaking of "marriage"...

*Tammy, do you have a female friend or family member who is divorced? Again, for the sake of argument, assuming "yes"---would you ever dream of telling her that she was never really married? Seriously, would you ever think of telling her that there's "no such thing" as an "exwife"?

So, can we agree that to suggest either, or both of the above, would be pretty thoughtless, as well as pretty asinine? I await your reply.

Tammy: I simply said that the term exchristian can't really be a correct term, because by the definition of the word (christian)....

Oops! There's that nagging little fallacy again.....

"[exchristian]can't be a correct term."

Let's review: See "exwife" analogy here*.

Furthermore, injecting the definiton of "Christian"(as you provided) is as relevant as me interjecting the definition of "wife". In other words, it's not[relevant].

Similar to how the term "exwive" is is a perfectly acceptable label for a women who no longer believes that she'll spend her entire life with a man who she previously did believe she'd spend her entire life with----an "exchristian" is a perfectly acceptable term for someone who previously believed they'd survive death and float around in the clouds next to the god of the Christian bible. In other words, simply put---an "exchristian" is someone who no longer believes Christianity is true. Please, make a mental note of this.

Tammy continues...Hey, don't you remember from your "believing" days that Jesus said, while He was dying, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do".

Why, why yes, I do remember that. I also remember the story of the old woman who lived in a giant combat boot. News flash: It contradicts reality.

But either way, let me ask you a question: Do you remember in your current "believing" day that "Jesus", "the Father", and their alleged Holy spook, are "One"?....in which case, "Jesus" was essentially asking himself to "forgive" whoever, while simultaniously killing himself on that dratted execution device. I mean, I must confess---I talk to myself occasionally, but I really wouldn't expect that from the Creator of the Universe. I don't know; it seems "quirky", and leads me to believe that if such a being existed, that it would be a little unstable for a man-god in such a high position. = /

Tammy: The faith of a Christian comes from believing what is written in the bible, that the bible is the inspired word of God. Either you believe it or you don't.

This is fantastic news! You seem to now be conceding that it's possible for people to choose to NOT believe Christianity on "Faith". Although that contradicts your entire previous argument(go figure), you've finally got it right!

Tammy closes with: I am also curious to know what "opened your eyes" to help you decide to denounce your faith in the bible, God, Jesus..more interested to know, what was it you were believing in and trusting in?

READ the testimonies.