Creation "Science" Is the Christian Right's Trojan Horse Against Reason by Chris Hedges
"Before they seize power and establish a world according to their doctrines, totalitarian movements conjure up a lying world of consistency which is more adequate to the needs of the human mind than reality itself; in which, through sheer imagination, uprooted masses can feel at home and are spared the never-ending shocks which real life and real experiences deal to human beings and their expectations. The force possessed by totalitarian propaganda -- before the movements have the power to drop iron curtains to prevent anyone's disturbing, by the slightest reality, the gruesome quiet of an entirely imaginary world--lies in its ability to shut the masses off from the real world."
-- Hannah Arendt, "The Origins of Totalitarianism"
In the middle of the lobby of the 50,000-square-foot Creation Museum in Petersburg, Ky., a 20-foot waterfall tumbles. Two life-size figures of children with long black hair and in buckskin clothes play in the stream a few feet from two towering Tyrannosaurus Rex models that can move and roar. The museum, which cost $25 million to build and has a sea of black asphalt parking lots for school buses, has a scale model of Noah's ark that shows how Noah solved the problem of fitting dinosaurs into the three levels of the vessel--he loaded only baby dinosaurs. And on the wooden model, infant dinosaurs cavort with horses, giraffes, hippopotamuses, penguins and bears. There is an elaborate display of the Garden of Eden, where Adam and Eve, naked but strategically positioned so as not to display breasts or genitals, swim in a river as giant dinosaurs and lizards roam the banks.
Before Adam and Eve were expelled from paradise, museum visitors are told, all of the dinosaurs were peaceable plant-eaters. The evidence is found in Genesis 1:30, where God gives "green herb" to every creature to eat. There were no predators. T-Rex had such big teeth, the museum explains, so it could open coconuts. Only after Adam and Eve sinned and were cast out of paradise did the dinosaurs start to eat flesh. And Adam's sin is a key component of the belief system, for in the eyes of many creationists, in order for Jesus' death to be meaningful it had to atone for Adam's first sin.
The museum has a theater equipped with seats that shake and gadgets that spray mist at the audience as the story of God's six-day creation of the world unfolds on the screen and the sound system rocks the auditorium. There are 30-foot-high walls that represent the cliffs of the Grand Canyon, floors that resemble rocks embedded with fossils, and rooms where a "Christian" paleontologist counters the claims of an "evolutionist" paleontologist. It has the appearance of a real science museum, complete with a planetarium, a gift shop and plaques on the wall with quotes from creationist "scientists" who have the title doctor conspicuously before their names. It has charts, timelines and graphs with facts and figures. It is meant to be interactive, to create, like Universal Studios, a contrived reality with an array of costly animatronic men and women as well as moving dinosaurs.
The danger of creationism is that, like the pseudo-science of Nazi eugenics, it allows facts to be accepted or discarded according to the dictates of a preordained ideology. Creationism removes the follower from the rational, reality-based world. Signs, miracles and wonders occur not only in the daily life of Christians but in history, science, medicine and logic. The belief system becomes the basis to understand the world. Random facts and data are collected and made to fit into this belief system or discarded. When facts are treated as if they were opinions, when there is no universal standard to determine truth, in law, in science, in scholarship, or in the reporting of the events of the day, the world becomes a place where people can believe what they want to believe, where there is no possibility of reaching any conclusion not predetermined by those who interpret the official, divinely inspired text. This is the goal of creationists.
Other creationist museums are going up in Arkansas, Texas, California, Tennessee and Florida. Museums are part of a massive push to teach creationism in schools, part of a vast Christian publishing and filmmaking industry that seeks to rewrite the past and make it conform to the Bible. The front lines of the culture wars are the classrooms. The battle is one we are slowly losing. Twenty states are considering changing the way evolution is taught in order to include creationism or intelligent design. Only 13 percent of Americans in a 2004 Gallup poll, when asked for their views on human origins, said life arose from the strictly natural process of evolution. More than 38 percent said they believed God guided evolution, and 45 percent said the Genesis account of creation was a true story.2 Courses on intelligent design have been taught at Minnesota, Georgia, New Mexico and Iowa State universities, along with Wake Forest and Carnegie Mellon, not to mention Christian universities that teach all science through the prism of the Bible.
The museum is an illustration of the movement's marriage of primitive and intolerant beliefs with the modern tools of technology, mass communication, sophisticated fundraising and political organization. Totalitarian systems usually start as propagandistic movements that ostensibly teach people to "believe what they want." This is a ruse. This primacy of personal opinion, regardless of facts, destabilizes and destroys the primacy of all facts. This process leads inevitably to the big lie. Facts are useful only if they bolster the message. The use of mass-marketing techniques to persuade and convince, rather than brainwash, has led tens of millions of followers to accept the toxic totalitarian line by tricking them into believing it's their own. Ironically, at the outset the movement seemingly encourages people to think "independently" or "courageously."
At first all have, in the totalitarian belief system, a right to an opinion, or, in short, a right to believe anything. Soon, under the iron control of an empowered totalitarian movement, facts become worthless, kept or discarded according to an ideological litmus test. And once these movements achieve power, facts are ruthlessly manipulated or kept hidden to support the lie. Creationism is not about offering an alternative. Its goal is the destruction of the core values of the open society--the ability to think for oneself, to draw independent conclusions, to express dissent when judgment and common sense tell you something is wrong, to be self-critical, to challenge authority, to advocate for change and to accept that there are other views, different ways of being, that are morally and socially acceptable. We are beginning to see the growing intolerance that comes with the empowerment of these ideologues. There is a bill in the Texas Legislature to strip all mention of evolution from Texas school textbooks and institute mandatory Bible classes for all students. This is just the start.
And yet, coming from the modern age, these Christo-fascists cannot discount science. They employ jargon, methods and data that appear to be science, to make an argument for creationism. They have created parallel research and scholarly institutions. They pump out articles in self-published journals to provide "evidence" that homosexuals can be cured, that global warming is a myth, that abortion can cause breast cancer, that something they call "post-abortion syndrome" leads to deep depression and suicide and that abstinence-only education is an effective form of birth control. This pseudo-science has seeped into the public debate. It is disseminated by nervous and timid media anxious to give both sides in every argument. Those who have contempt for facts and truth, for honest research and inquiry, are given the same platform by the press as those who deal in a world of reality, fact and rationality.
The movement desperately needs the imprint of science to legitimize itself. It achieves this imprint by discrediting real science and claiming creationist science as true science. All attempts to argue the creationists out of their mythical belief, to persuade them with logic, evidence, scientific inquiry and fact, will fail. They have created a "fundamentalist science." They know they cannot return to the pre-Darwinian innocence that let them believe the Bible alone was enough. They need, in the midst of their flight from reality, to reassure their followers that science, science not contaminated by secular humanists and nonbelievers, is on their side. In this they are a distinctly modern movement.
They seek the imprint of science and scholarship to legitimize myth. This is a characteristic they share with all modern totalitarian movements, which co-opt the disciplines of law, science, medicine and scholarship to give a modern veneer to their primitive and superstitious belief systems, systems that allow the rulers to dictate reality and truth. The "paraprofessional" organizations formed by the Christian right, organizations of teachers, journalists, doctors, lawyers and scientists, mimic the activities of real professional groups. They seek to challenge the legitimacy and the power of the traditional organizations. The duplication of the structures and methods employed by the non-totalitarian world, the use of pseudo-science to dress up fantasy, is slowly undermining our legitimate scientific and educational institutions. It is destroying the foundations of our open society. It is ushering us into a world where lies are true.
BTW, anyone know who these posers are so we can do a publication scan to see what peer-reviewed articles they have published...if any, and if they are relevant to the topic?
At last some good news from Ex-Christian. Years ago I feared that creationism would lose to the Darwinism and evolutionary myths.
But today we see increased number of people using their intellect correctly and seeing the scientific evidence for creation.
We should have creation museums in every state of the union to deter little children from the lies of Darwin. I thank Ken Ham for opening the creation museum in Ky.
i cant wait for one of those POS Museums to go up in my state. This will be a great public forum for well informed atheists to flock to. I see this as a great opportunity for atheists to publicly debate and refute this childish belief system. I cant wait till they close there doors and sell off there property... i claim the Veggie eating T-Rex!
These museums have the intellectual value to the scientific world as an Anna Nichole story does to world news...its just pablum for ignorant masses. The American public, in general, isn't educated enough motivated enough to see the difference. Which is why we see this:
deter little children
IOW, the target audiences are individuals who don't have the maturity, information or critical thinking skills to know they are being fed lies by these cretin museums. As further evidence, Paul continues with this flat-out lie
seeing the scientific evidence for creation.
There is absolutely no scientific evidence of the biblical creation. Not one piece of evidence supporting it has ever been published in a recognized peer reviewed journal. (And yes, there are quite a few Christians that are reviewers. I know some myself)
Oh, and thanks Paul, for showing up and providing evidence for my first comment.
Paul: "But today we see increased number of people using their intellect correctly and seeing the scientific evidence for creation."
The use of scientific artifact(s) to support abstract idea(l)s... Sounds like an Art Museum, using real world materials. And... Paul... that is different than an art gallery how?
paul wrote: "At last some good news from Ex-Christian. Years ago I feared that creationism would lose to the Darwinism and evolutionary myths. But today we see increased number of people using their intellect correctly and seeing the scientific evidence for creation. We should have creation museums in every state of the union to deter little children from the lies of Darwin. I thank Ken Ham for opening the creation museum in Ky."
Dan to Paul: Paul, exactly what is in it for you, to be another dupe for the evil evangelicals? Disseminating lies, especially to children is evil. If you are a Christian and believe in hell, then, you are on your way to it.
Most adults when presented with the scientific data and a little knowledge about how natural selection works, get it. Your mind seems to be impervious to logic.
People like you who see the same facts and are presented with the same instruction, and then continue to cheer for I/D,must have an ulterior motive.
Do you have stock in one of these "Scam Museums" that unashamedly dole out misinformation to children? These people are just scamming the gullible evangelicals, exactly like the movie "The passion of the Christ," did. We all knew that it was just a question of time before Mel Gibson was arrested for public drunkenness and foul mouthing the Jews and everybody else.
Probably about a million books have been written now, by the most renown scientists in the world, debunking creationism, and it's renamed, Intelligent Design.
Millions of taxpayers dollars have been spent in courts arguing for and against making it mandatory to include it, as science, in schools, and the I/d side has yet provided NO evidence, that's ZERO evidence, for their cause, and have indeed been decimated in the courts time after time. Very long court decisions have been written that explain, that intelligent design is nothing but religion and nothing more.
Your statements here on ex-Christian are generally too stupid to be accidental. You are saying stupid things for a reason, and I suspect that you have a serious mental problem, or you are getting paid to say these things. If there were a God Paul, he would want you to start being honest.
Do you want you children to grow up in a world where their thoughts are controlled by the "State"? It has happened before and can happen again.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. by Thomas Jefferson. Dan
facts become worthless, kept or discarded according to an ideological litmus test.
the ability to think for oneself, to draw independent conclusions, to express dissent when judgment and common sense tell you something is wrong, to be self-critical, to challenge authority
As a person raised in a conservative Christian home (a minister's no less), and having attended a Conservative Christian high school and college, I witnessed the former and had the ability to do the latter.
I became a Zoologist and have both taught college biology courses and have been doing research for a number of years. It is sad to witness, among American youth, the extent to which the first quote has invaded the beliefs systems of these people, and the lack of ability to do the latter.
I do research at one of the largest public universities in the USA. I can walk the many floors of research laboratories and can tell you the majority of the graduate, post-doctoral and adjunct researchers are of foreign extraction. The majority being from China, Tiawan and India.
Though the USA has, historically, lead the way in biological and medical research (money, publications), that trend is ending. Europe and Japan (and soon to follow China and India) now out publish the US. Where the innovative research goes (i.e. publication rate) there goes the funding.
This article is a clue as to one of the key reasons why. The collaboration of theology and politics to dismantle "unwanted" scientific realities (evolution, global warming...you name it) is having an effect on the intellectual ability and critical thinking skills of our young.
And the result is very bad.
Because of these and other reasons, I believe the USA will dramatically fall behind Europe and Asia in economic strength, international respect, and innovative research.
We will feel what it is like to become "second world".
Thank you Christobots and Neocons for finally ruining our country.
(fixed spelling mistakes, a lesson about using The Preview button)
spirula wrote: "BTW, anyone know who these posers are so we can do a publication scan to see what peer-reviewed articles they have published...if any, and if they are relevant to the topic?"
Anyone interested can find a veritable laundry list of the people most responsible for this intellectual tragedy at Science Blogs (http://scienceblogs.com/)
The two best blogs there (IMHO) are Dispatches from the Culture Wars and Pharyngula the authors of which are both dedicated to calling out and debunking the claims of said poseurs.
And, for the record, you'll find precious few peer-reviewed articles by anyone involved since all of their "research" to date consists of failed attempts at discrediting evolutionary biology.
"...anyone know who these posers are so we can do a publication scan to see what peer-reviewed articles they have published..."
With Kent Hovind in the pokey, Ken Ham has more-or-less become the mouthpiece of the YEC movement.
As for scientists who may or may not be involved with the museum, see here. AiG also maintains a private list of those who serve in an advisory capacity, which might or might not include some or all of those on the public list.
In spite of their inclusion procedure, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this list weren't padded in some way. It also wouldn't surprise me if some of those on the list either aren't aware they're on it or hold different beliefs than this implies. It wouldn't be the first time creationists have done so (recall the Discovery Institute's famous declaration).
I'm considering the idea of compiling a list of emails and sending a request for clarification to them, just to be sure. ;)
We should have creation museums in every state of the union to deter little children from the lies of Darwin. Thank Almighty Dog I live in an atheist country.
Noah's Ark never ceases to fascinate me. So it came to rest on Mt Ararat and then all the kangaroos, koalas, platypusses(?), and other marscupials headed off for Australia, some not quite making it and stopping in Papua. I guess Almighty Dog told them where they'd find kangaroo paradise.
The collaboration of theology and politics to dismantle "unwanted" scientific realities (evolution, global warming...you name it) is having an effect on the intellectual ability and critical thinking skills of our young.
I'm very curious, are there any exchristians or people who were never christian to begin with that visit this site, who don't believe in evolution as being a fact? The buybull is definitely not true or is not a fact. Now as far as evolution goes, it will never be proven as fact or truth either, it's only an hypothesis that can't be proven one way or the other. I don't have anything against evolution being taught in our schools, but I do with intelligent design. Now as far as evo, it's a theory and only that. I hope I'm not the only person that visits this site, who doesn't see evolution as fact. Every person to there own beliefs, but please let there be someone who can admit that we don't have the facts as to why the things that exist in the universe do.
imaginary sky daddy, is it an hypothesis or a theory? I suggest you learn what these terms mean before throwing scientific terms around loosely. Most of us here quite aware of the difference between scientific facts, hypothesis, and theory. What ever you might think of "evolution" there are tons of scientific facts are not going to go away.
George Carlin said "What really scares me is how dumb the average American is........and half the country is dumber than that."
That being said, don't forget that the spokesperson for ID in America, Ken Ham, is from that Atheistic paradise Australia. Maybe they had too much sense to listen to him Down Under.
twincats Thanks. I read those blogs, but I was referring to the "scientists" at the museums, in particular. Non-science degreed "experts" like that fraud Ken Ham, carry no weight with me. Nor do physcians.
j.c. samuelson, Thanks for the link. That is what I was looking for.
I perused it and picked out individuals here and there with advanced degrees associated with biology/genetics/palentology. Not much of a track record for publication and heavily represented with individuals at conservative christian colleges (such as one I attended).
imaginary sky daddy, it's only an hypothesis that can't be proven one way or the other
No. A hypothesis is a testable explanation, based on observations and predictions, which is then tested via experiments. It is either supported or rejected by the results of those experiments.
A scientific theory is a broad explanation for a range of observations and results, and supported by a wide range of experiments and observations. By nature a scientific theory cannot be "proven" for that would require it has been demonstrate that there is no case in which it did not operate. Logistically that is impossible as that would require conducting an infinite set of experiments. Thus, even in a scientific theory there is always the possibility there exists evidence that disproves it in some or all cases.
Do you also claim that the Theory of Gravity, the Germ Theory of Disease, the Chromosomal Theory of Inheritance, The Cell Theory of Life, Quantum Theory also have no "facts"? They are all scientific theories. In fact, the evidence and interdisciplinary cohesiveness of the Theory of Evolution is far greater than that between Quantum Theory and The Theory of Gravity.
Don't fall for that absurd "it's only a theory" crap. Scientific theory is not the same as a 'guess', which the vernacular usage of the word theory.
I do have to give praise the public school system in Michigan that educated me. I was totally brainwashed from the begining that the earth is 5 billion years old, and that dinosaurs existed hundreds of millions of years ago. I ever remember in high school being taught evolution without a single parent or preacher protesting.
It is just so scary when you see well educated well to do folks believing in this bullshit. We are living in a world of nit wits.
That Paul guy can't be for real. I think he's one of us being very clever, or he is dumb as a fence post.
There was a very revealing slip of the tongue in the topic video, occurring at the 1:04-minutes-remaining mark when the middle aged, middle America woman in the horizontal-striped shirt was talking about her biology education, where the staff were describing evolution to her. In the video, she says, "No, I'm not going to believe that."
Note: "...not going to..." believe it. She's made up her mind ahead of time what will get to be believed and what will not. Not a hint of believing what the evidence has led you to believe, after the fact. Just to reprise the first of spirula's hi-lited quotes a bit farther up: "...facts become worthless, kept or discarded according to an ideological litmus test..." The lady in the video actually wound up inadvertantly saying something true. Truer than she knew.
I'm wondering: why doesn't someone make these creationists spell it all out, as a positive timeline? In, let's say, 50-year increments from the garden of eden onwards. We see in the video that the little cave-girl co-existing with her two pet dinos was wearing only stone-age jewelry; I forget what her fetching little frock was made of. Make `em spell it out --- when did copper come along? Was there a bronze age? An iron age? I mean, we _know_ that "eden" was supposed to be in the Mesopotamian region, and that they are in the digital age now, there. There are only twenty 50-year periods in a millenium, and only six millenia, supposedly. Twenty times six is only 120 instalments in their time line; doesn't seem like much to ask.
The first 200 comments appear here under the article. If over 200 comments are posted, click on the "newer" and "newest" links on the Post a Comment page to continue reading the latest comments.
BTW, anyone know who these posers are so we can do a publication scan to see what peer-reviewed articles they have published...if any, and if they are relevant to the topic?
But today we see increased number of people using their intellect correctly and seeing the scientific evidence for creation.
We should have creation museums in every state of the union to deter little children from the lies of Darwin.
I thank Ken Ham for opening the creation museum in Ky.
i cant wait for one of those POS Museums to go up in my state. This will be a great public forum for well informed atheists to flock to.
I see this as a great opportunity for atheists to publicly debate and refute this childish belief system.
I cant wait till they close there doors and sell off there property... i claim the Veggie eating T-Rex!
deter little children
IOW, the target audiences are individuals who don't have the maturity, information or critical thinking skills to know they are being fed lies by these cretin museums. As further evidence, Paul continues with this flat-out lie
seeing the scientific evidence for creation.
There is absolutely no scientific evidence of the biblical creation. Not one piece of evidence supporting it has ever been published in a recognized peer reviewed journal. (And yes, there are quite a few Christians that are reviewers. I know some myself)
Oh, and thanks Paul, for showing up and providing evidence for my first comment.
The use of scientific artifact(s) to support abstract idea(l)s... Sounds like an Art Museum, using real world materials. And... Paul... that is different than an art gallery how?
"At last some good news from Ex-Christian. Years ago I feared that creationism would lose to the Darwinism and evolutionary myths.
But today we see increased number of people using their intellect correctly and seeing the scientific evidence for creation.
We should have creation museums in every state of the union to deter little children from the lies of Darwin.
I thank Ken Ham for opening the creation museum in Ky."
Dan to Paul:
Paul, exactly what is in it for you, to be another dupe for the evil evangelicals?
Disseminating lies, especially to children is evil. If you are a Christian and believe in hell, then, you are on your way to it.
Most adults when presented with the scientific data and a little knowledge about how natural selection works, get it. Your mind seems to be impervious to logic.
People like you who see the same facts and are presented with the same instruction, and then continue to cheer for I/D,must have an ulterior motive.
Do you have stock in one of these "Scam Museums" that unashamedly dole out misinformation to children? These people are just scamming the gullible evangelicals, exactly like the movie "The passion of the Christ," did. We all knew that it was just a question of time before Mel Gibson was arrested for public drunkenness and foul mouthing the Jews and everybody else.
Probably about a million books have been written now, by the most renown scientists in the world, debunking creationism, and it's renamed, Intelligent Design.
Millions of taxpayers dollars have been spent in courts arguing for and against making it mandatory to include it, as science, in schools, and the I/d side has yet provided NO evidence, that's ZERO evidence, for their cause, and have indeed been decimated in the courts time after time. Very long court decisions have been written that explain, that intelligent design is nothing but religion and nothing more.
Your statements here on ex-Christian are generally too stupid to be accidental. You are saying stupid things for a reason, and I suspect that you have a serious mental problem, or you are getting paid to say these things. If there were a God Paul, he would want you to start being honest.
Do you want you children to grow up in a world where their thoughts are controlled by the "State"? It has happened before and can happen again.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
by Thomas Jefferson.
Dan
facts become worthless, kept or discarded according to an ideological litmus test.
the ability to think for oneself, to draw independent conclusions, to express dissent when judgment and common sense tell you something is wrong, to be self-critical, to challenge authority
As a person raised in a conservative Christian home (a minister's no less), and having attended a Conservative Christian high school and college, I witnessed the former and had the ability to do the latter.
I became a Zoologist and have both taught college biology courses and have been doing research for a number of years.
It is sad to witness, among American youth, the extent to which the first quote has invaded the beliefs systems of these people, and the lack of ability to do the latter.
I do research at one of the largest public universities in the USA. I can walk the many floors of research laboratories and can tell you the majority of the graduate, post-doctoral and adjunct researchers are of foreign extraction. The majority being from China, Tiawan and India.
Though the USA has, historically, lead the way in biological and medical research (money, publications), that trend is ending. Europe and Japan (and soon to follow China and India) now out publish the US. Where the innovative research goes (i.e. publication rate) there goes the funding.
This article is a clue as to one of the key reasons why. The collaboration of theology and politics to dismantle "unwanted" scientific realities (evolution, global warming...you name it) is having an effect on the intellectual ability and critical thinking skills of our young.
And the result is very bad.
Because of these and other reasons, I believe the USA will dramatically fall behind Europe and Asia in economic strength, international respect, and innovative research.
We will feel what it is like to become "second world".
Thank you Christobots and Neocons for finally ruining our country.
(fixed spelling mistakes, a lesson about using The Preview button)
Anyone interested can find a veritable laundry list of the people most responsible for this intellectual tragedy at Science Blogs (http://scienceblogs.com/)
The two best blogs there (IMHO) are Dispatches from the Culture Wars and Pharyngula the authors of which are both dedicated to calling out and debunking the claims of said poseurs.
And, for the record, you'll find precious few peer-reviewed articles by anyone involved since all of their "research" to date consists of failed attempts at discrediting evolutionary biology.
Spirula,
"...anyone know who these posers are so we can do a publication scan to see what peer-reviewed articles they have published..."
With Kent Hovind in the pokey, Ken Ham has more-or-less become the mouthpiece of the YEC movement.
As for scientists who may or may not be involved with the museum, see here. AiG also maintains a private list of those who serve in an advisory capacity, which might or might not include some or all of those on the public list.
In spite of their inclusion procedure, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this list weren't padded in some way. It also wouldn't surprise me if some of those on the list either aren't aware they're on it or hold different beliefs than this implies. It wouldn't be the first time creationists have done so (recall the Discovery Institute's famous declaration).
I'm considering the idea of compiling a list of emails and sending a request for clarification to them, just to be sure. ;)
Thank Almighty Dog I live in an atheist country.
Noah's Ark never ceases to fascinate me. So it came to rest on Mt Ararat and then all the kangaroos, koalas, platypusses(?), and other marscupials headed off for Australia, some not quite making it and stopping in Papua. I guess Almighty Dog told them where they'd find kangaroo paradise.
Brett Robson
I'm very curious, are there any exchristians or people who were never christian to begin with that visit this site, who don't believe in evolution as being a fact? The buybull is definitely not true or is not a fact. Now as far as evolution goes, it will never be proven as fact or truth either, it's only an hypothesis that can't be proven one way or the other. I don't have anything against evolution being taught in our schools, but I do with intelligent design. Now as far as evo, it's a theory and only that.
I hope I'm not the only person that visits this site, who doesn't see evolution as fact. Every person to there own beliefs, but please let there be someone who can admit that we don't have the facts as to why the things that exist in the universe do.
That being said, don't forget that the spokesperson for ID in America, Ken Ham, is from that Atheistic paradise Australia. Maybe they had too much sense to listen to him Down Under.
Thanks. I read those blogs, but I was referring to the "scientists" at the museums, in particular. Non-science degreed "experts" like that fraud Ken Ham, carry no weight with me. Nor do physcians.
j.c. samuelson,
Thanks for the link. That is what I was looking for.
I perused it and picked out individuals here and there with advanced degrees associated with biology/genetics/palentology. Not much of a track record for publication and heavily represented with individuals at conservative christian colleges (such as one I attended).
imaginary sky daddy,
it's only an hypothesis that can't be proven one way or the other
No. A hypothesis is a testable explanation, based on observations and predictions, which is then tested via experiments. It is either supported or rejected by the results of those experiments.
A scientific theory is a broad explanation for a range of observations and results, and supported by a wide range of experiments and observations. By nature a scientific theory cannot be "proven" for that would require it has been demonstrate that there is no case in which it did not operate. Logistically that is impossible as that would require conducting an infinite set of experiments. Thus, even in a scientific theory there is always the possibility there exists evidence that disproves it in some or all cases.
Do you also claim that the Theory of Gravity, the Germ Theory of Disease, the Chromosomal Theory of Inheritance, The Cell Theory of Life, Quantum Theory also have no "facts"? They are all scientific theories. In fact, the evidence and interdisciplinary cohesiveness of the Theory of Evolution is far greater than that between Quantum Theory and The Theory of Gravity.
Don't fall for that absurd "it's only a theory" crap. Scientific theory is not the same as a 'guess', which the vernacular usage of the word theory.
It is just so scary when you see well educated well to do folks believing in this bullshit. We are living in a world of nit wits.
That Paul guy can't be for real. I think he's one of us being very clever, or he is dumb as a fence post.
Note: "...not going to..." believe it. She's made up her mind ahead of time what will get to be believed and what will not. Not a hint of believing what the evidence has led you to believe, after the fact. Just to reprise the first of spirula's hi-lited quotes a bit farther up: "...facts become worthless, kept or discarded according to an ideological litmus test..." The lady in the video actually wound up inadvertantly saying something true. Truer than she knew.
I'm wondering: why doesn't someone make these creationists spell it all out, as a positive timeline? In, let's say, 50-year increments from the garden of eden onwards. We see in the video that the little cave-girl co-existing with her two pet dinos was wearing only stone-age jewelry; I forget what her fetching little frock was made of. Make `em spell it out --- when did copper come along? Was there a bronze age? An iron age? I mean, we _know_ that "eden" was supposed to be in the Mesopotamian region, and that they are in the digital age now, there. There are only twenty 50-year periods in a millenium, and only six millenia, supposedly. Twenty times six is only 120 instalments in their time line; doesn't seem like much to ask.
I lost it when I read that. I continue to be amazed by the human mind's capacity for stupidity. It really knows no bounds!