It doesn't surprise me in the least. I think alot of the pandering of the current US Administration and our president to the religious right has more to do with a deliberate 'side issue' facade to let the Muslim countries which ARE theocracies have a suggested idea that most Americans are Christians. The main reason I think this is because the Muslim religion has a vital teaching that they are to respect persons of 'the Book' that is, not only fellow Muslims, but Jews and Christians too so if the were to decide to lob a warhead our way they would be shaming their own belief system. Kind of a contest between continents as to who has religion and as a way of showing that a representative republic that respects all beliefs can function better than a theocracy.

Another point, if you've been following the last 4 postings in response to people's opinions here such as yours you will find my mention of a real estate agent up in the more rural area of California and his illegal behavior using religion while transacting real estate business.

I haven't gone to those links yet but, I will.

There's this militant preacher on the radio near here that says he would like to drive a silver stake through people's hearts, like Atheists, Muslims, Homosexuals, Hindu's Infidel's, anyone non-christian, etc. basically anyone who does not believe as he does, and his wife was setting beside him and said she thought he should use a rusty stake, and they just self-righteously laugh, you can hear the slobber druel as they laugh.

It's all about self-rightous suprememcy, there may really be a war between the self-righteous and the non-believers some day, I can see how it could happen. Thanks, TC

What happened to "turn the other cheek"?
or "shake off the dust of your feet"...?

One man, one voice! I give you my word I will be vehemently speaking out against this in my next sermon.

Is this really a christian game? It sounds suspiciously like something we'd find in a taliban game, only with some very minor re-wording.

Saying that, this is one of the sickest things i've ever read. It's a prime example of how harmful some religious beliefs can be.

What's worse, can you imagine young christian children playing this game? Young minds are easily impressionable. What impression will it make on 10 year olds if they play games where they go out and kill people who don't believe what they believe?

This is sickening. Really, really sickening.

Where did you get the description of the video game? On the website at Left Behind Games it doesn't say that. Have you played it?

Ahhh,,,I see it i on the "Talk to Action" website. OK, well they certainly seem to be roasting these people there.

Seems the personnel behind "The Purpose Driven Life" headed up by Mr. Warren etc...is directly involved in this game? I'll have to let all my mother's friends know about it. She's the one who keeps arguing with me about "turn the other cheek." Here ya go - just thought you guys might want more of a taste of the shite...

Exerpt from article:
On March 22, 2005, CNN's Larry King interviewed Mr. Warren about the Atlanta courthouse shooting and hostage taking. A caller asked, "Can you explain the sudden thirst or craving that people seem to have for religion?

Mr. Warren replied:

"[T]here are really two stories going on in our culture right now. There is the story of things are getting more worse [sic] in some ways. We're seeing the increase in violence. We're seeing terrorism. We've seen these recent shootings. We're seeing the coarsening of our society, that has disgusted a lot of people. And there is people [sic] -- some people are more materialistic than ever.
But at the same time, there's another story going on in America, that I think is a spiritual awakening that is brewing. And that is a desire and hunger to know God. I don't always think it's always a desire and hunger for church. But there is a desire and hunger to know God.

So according to Mr. Warren, the worst of American culture is reflected in examples of violence, terrorism, shootings, and the coarsening of our society, that turn people away in disgust. And in addition, "some people are more materialistic than ever."
If violence, coarseness, and materialism are serious social problems, then what purpose is served by exploiting a global pastoral network to mass market a game about mass killing, whether in the name of Christ or the AntiChrist?

On the one hand, this video game is anti-American, because it endorses roving death squads engaged in faith-based violence without any regard for Constitutional law. On the other hand, the video game is anti-Christian, because it argues that the Kingdom of God can be advanced by using the methods and tools of the kingdoms of this world, namely guns and bombs.

The Scriptures say, "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." (Proverbs 22:6) The Scriptures do not say, "Train up a child in the way he should blow away the people of God as well as infidels: and when he is old enough, he will go out and do some killing."

As Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight that I might not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here" (Gospel According to John 18:36). As Paul said, "Though we walk in flesh, we do not make war in accordance with the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly." (2 Corinthians 10:3-4a).

The dominionist Christians pushing this violent video game are modeling neither Christian charity nor patriotism. Both Christians and patriots should oppose them.

UPDATE:
Some people have commented that the link between Mr. Warren's purpose driven empire and this product is casual. Let's be clear: Mark Carver is Executive Director of the Purpose Driven Church, and therefore works directly for Mr. Warren in one of the most senior roles in his empire. It would seem unlikely that Mr. Warren, who plans an international stealth evangelism campaign that already includes the president of Rwanda, is unaware of this project, the biggest Christian video game in history. Mr. Carver's role on the Advisory Board of Left Behind Games, the corporation created in October 2001 specifically to develop and market this violent video game, is an association clearly more active than a casual. People are involved on this Advisory Board because of their expertise, and their connections to markets -- in this case, Mr. Warren's. On its corporate web site -- part of its merchandising pitch -- Left Behind Games touts its association with Mr. Carver, and makes clear his prominent role in Mr. Warren's Purpose Driven Church.

In other words, Left Behind Games is invoking its association with Mr. Warren's Purpose Driven Church as part of its product marketing strategy. Do we think that Mr. Warren would allow his name brand and reputation to be casually invoked in a major business venture that involves one of the largest publishers in the Christian marketplace, who published the Left Behind novels, one of the best selling fiction series of all time? Does anyone think that Left Behind Games invoked the name brand of Mr. Warren's Purpose Driven Church without his permission? Since this possibility is farfetched, what we are looking at here is a business/marketing alliance between several evangelical business and ministerial entrepreneurs for whom the Great Commission also means great profits.

What kind of sick crap IS this.I hear christians all the time condeming violent tv, violent music, violent games. Now this game killing non-christians,people different sex oreintation , etc.As someone else said what about turn the other cheek. What about judge not. Another hypocrisy. And another thing, isn't chrtianity, andislam stemmed from judaism? How STUPID can you get.

Sorry to interrupt your little wank-fest, but here's the GameSpy preview of the game.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/left-behind-eternal-forces/700684p1.html

Note that actually killing people is a failure, not a success, and most people in the game are actually neutrals who are not to be killed.

And nowhere does the game suggest "hey, let's kill moderate Christians, homosexuals, people who believe in separation of church and state," etc.

And establishing a theocracy is not part of the game--maximizing the numbers of neutrals turned into Christians before the End is.

And before you accuse me of being some sort of Rapture-head, my own beliefs are amillenialist, I voted Libertarian in the last election (so don't accuse me of supporting Bush to make the End Times happen), and I got bored with the "LB" series halfway through and ditched it.

Ian: "What impression will it leave on 10 year olds if they play games where they go out and kill people who don't believe what they believe? This is sickening. Really, really sickening."


If they read the Holy Bible they're taught that's it's okay to kill nonbelievers(people who "don't believe what they believe") anyway. What's the difference?

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the the Lord your God....." Deuteronomy 13:5

Note to self:

Many xtians will LIE to try to distance themselves from the realities of this game .... Just ignore them and stick to reality.

Onanite

P.S. Kind of like the Bush lies

Umm...I'm not lying Onanite. I'm quoting Gamespy Magazine.

mq59 is right. The game isn't as bad as it is made-out to be. The basic mechanics of the game is that there are human beings with different positions (godly, neutral, and evil). One player controls the "godly" people, one person controls the "evil" ones. You are trying to turn neutral people to your own side. You can even convert your enemies troops (evil into godly, godly into evil). This means that all the humans are potentially future allies - even if they're fighting on the wrong side at the moment. It's not as evil as "kill all the moderate Christians, gays, ..." While I haven't played it, I'm guessing that a "moderate Christian" would be regarded as a "neutral", and you are penalized for killing neutrals.

Hi Again,
I thought this may be a good time to also post this article. It's freighting how our youth are being brain-washed with the roaring approval of their parents.
Later, blaine

The Article:
Dominionists and recruitment of youth
By dogemperor Tue May 30, 2006 at 10:51:07 AM EST
Talk To Action author Jonathan Hutson's expose on a Christian right paramilitary role playing video game is one lens into "stealth evangelism". For another, here is an anthology of posts on Ron Luce's slickly packaged, warlike rhetoric drenched "BattleCry" stadium events targetting teenagers, on a 1995 "stealth evangelism" manual that was distributed by Luce, and on the subject of "spiritual warfare" groups targeting youth in general.
topic: All Topics section:Ron Luce's BattleCry


The Purpose Driven Life Takers focuses on an increasing--and somewhat disturbing--trend, that being, the promotion of "spiritual warfare" theology to kids via video games. (The game featured is essentially a version of "Grand Theft Auto" for the dominionist set, where players earn points for conversion or killing of non-dominionists.)
The game parallels some disturbing trends among racist groups (in that games are being used as tools for recruitment), and--more disturbingly--Rick Warren, author of "A Purpose Driven Life" (one of the more popular books in the evangelical community), has the director of his church sitting on the board of the company developing this game:


The international director of Mr. Warren's Purpose Driven Church, Mark Carver, is a former investment banker who serves on the Advisory Board of the corporation created in October 2001 to develop and market this game. The creators plan to market their game using the same network marketing techniques that Mr. Warren used to turn The Purpose Driven Life into a commercial success. For example, they plan to distribute their merchandise through pastoral networks, especially mega-churches.

Warren does have links to dominionist groups--most notably in the "spiritual warfare" communities, like Ron Luce's "BattleCry", and by his own admission is a promoter of "stealth evangelism":

In order to build this earthly kingdom, Mr. Warren plans marketplace ministries - business ventures with a veneer of missionary compassion that slip into a country in order to transform it systematically through the governmental, corporate, and social sectors. And that is why Mr. Warren calls himself a "stealth evangelist" - because he wishes to cloak his dominionist agenda, which is the establishment of an earthly kingdom that reflects his skewed vision of Christianity.
According to Mr. Warren, the establishment of this earthly kingdom requires "foot soldiers." As part of his plan, Mr. Warren said he would encourage laypeople to "adopt" needy villages overseas in order to plant churches, expand business opportunities, educate children, influence governments, and overthrow corrupt political leaders, whom he described as "little Saddams." Mr. Warren said his purpose is to enlist "one billion foot soldiers for the Kingdom of God" in the developing world. And the stadium crowd roared its approval.

Celebrants included Paul Kagame, the president of Rwanda, a tiny east African country that lost hundreds of thousands of people when it suffered genocide in 1994. Catholic and Protestant clergy have been convicted in connection with that genocide. Yet Mr. Kagame announced that he would allow Mr. Warren to turn his country into the first purpose driven nation. The following month, 16 Rwandan religious leaders arrived in Orange County to begin religious training at Saddleback Church. Mr. Warren has said that his global initiative was developed "underground" and in "stealth". Presumably, this was done with the assistance of Mr. Carver, who directs the Purpose Driven Church in all its activities outside North America.


This leads us to entry the second (well, technically, second through fourth) of our anthology:
Ron Luce's "Stealth Evangelism" guide, exposed (part 1), and part 2 and part 3

If you want to get an idea what is meant by "stealth evangelism", there is probably not a better source than to go straight to the horses' mouth. This three-parter is an in-depth look at an actual "stealth evangelism" manual published by Ron Luce and distributed by "Christian contemporary" singer Carman back in 1995. The viewpoints promoted are frightening:


Later on, the "See You At The Pole" events are promoted as a good example of "RIOT Action". This, too, is a subtle reference to "spiritual warfare"; Religious Tolerance, a site based in Ontario, has documented multiple reports of a particularly disturbing tradition at SYATP events:

Edmond North High School in Edmond, OK: Nearly 150 Christian students gathered in the school yard during the 2005 SYATP event. They wrote the names of non-Christian students on pieces of paper. Darrell Haley, a youth pastor at the local E-Church brought a portable wooden cross which was set up next to the school flagpole in an apparent violation of the principle of separation of church and state. The papers were then nailed to the cross. Darrell's daughter Rachel wrote, "God truly moved in such a mighty way. I just felt the presence of God and the Holy Spirit at our school today." Olga Cossey, an adult youth leader at Witcher Baptist Church, said that seeing the students nailing the symbolic pieces of paper on the cross was a very emotional moment for her.
Kaufman High School in Kaufman, TX: The Baptist Standard web site featured a photograph and short article describing students from the First Baptist Church of Kaufman at the 2001 SYATP event. They who were attaching pieces of paper containing prayer requests to a wooden cross. It is not clear how many pieces of paper contained names of non-Christians in the school.



. . .
In fact, these charming folks even promote the idea of God as Creepy Stalker (yes, like that's going to win souls):

A R.I.O.T. is using every spare moment to reach out to lost people. It is creatively expanding the kingdom of God. It is strategizing and coordinating with friends to take over a part of your school or town for Jesus. It is a full-blown blitz! It is making everyone think, God, God, God! That is all I ever see and hear! God stuff is everywhere!
That's right! That is exactly what we want them to think. We say, "Get the picture, dude! God's got your number. He is after you!"


Part 1 focuses largely on theology and mindset; parts 2 and 3 are an expose of tactics. And such things are being promoted even to this day in groups like "BattleCry".
Blurring The Line Between Faith and Fighting is a very good article that exposes the military imagery in "spiritual warfare" groups like BattleCry:


Why all the military imagery and terminology? Isn't spiritual warfare enough? Why does it appear that many churches are more than ready to take the next step, and take this 'warfare' out of the churches and into the streets? And why the warlike emphasis on teen evangelicism? Battlecry is one of the most overt examples of the use of military imagery and martyrdom to fire young people up into some kind of crazed fury. Their use of military terms is the most overt, and the use of SEALS in their latest mass rally is disturbing on many levels- not the least of which is the tie-in with military recuritment in the real-life armed forces.

Christian Wars is another excellent piece on BattleCry and the "spiritual warfare" imagery therein:

But things have changed again- for the worse. The war imagery pendulum is swinging back from the spiritual realm to the real world, a place that should be of concern to moderate Christians and non-religious people alike. Instead of the Christian version of 'jihad' or 'struggle' against the internal adversaries of spiritual practice, the struggle has been moved to the outside world and its perceived adversaries- all nonbelievers- including fellow Christians. The constant and urgent message is this: Christians are being attacked. There is a war against Christianity. Christians must go on the offensive and fight back." This message is constant and unrelenting. In spite the fact that they are currently in power, there is still a war against them going on, and battles to be fought against a nebulous and often changing enemy. That enemy is now 'the flesh, Satan, and the world'.
Think about that: The world.

Joan Bokaer's recent post about the teen evangelical event in San Francisco called "BattleCry" talked about the war imagery used in this rally. The language and imagery was the typical 'Let's scare people into belief' tactic that is common in such rallies:

First you need an Enemy. In the case of BattleCry, it's 'giant corporations, media conglomerates, and purveyors of popular culture'. Sex and tolerance are also considered enemies- especially if the two are combined. Independent women with self-determination are enemies. The secular media and popular culture are often painted as the ultimate enemies of the True Believer. The bottom line is secularity. If it's secular, it is evil, and must be fought against.

Next you need lots of people screaming together. This is particularly effective with young people, who enjoy the excitement of a huge crowd with loud music, freebies and lots of other youth. The irony here is that the people who put on these events use the same tactics that their perceived enemies of the corporate media use to get a wave of excitement going: Music, crowds, and freebies.


One of the first, and still one of the better, articles on BattleCry itself is Christ's Righteously Equipped Warriors (referenced in above article). Joan Bokaer does one of the better exposes of BattleCry that I've seen; the comments also include specific info on links between BattleCry and other groups promoting "spiritual warfare" theology, notably Ted Haggard's New Life Church and Assemblies-linked "spiritual warfare" promoters.
Bokaer also touches on the links to the present administration:


BattleCry is an outgrowth of Teen Mania founded by Ron Luce, author and host of "Acquire the Fire TV" cable television program. Luce is also a President Bush appointee to a federal anti-drug-abuse commission.

(As a side note, the "RIOT Manual" I did an expose of was published by Teen Mania.)
An interesting look at what actually happens in those "BattleCry" meetings is available at "Battle Cry" Youth Rally in Massachusetts, Summer '04:


From their website:

Teen Mania Ministries and the BattleCry are proud to announce a series of events that will change the course of an entire generation. God has called today's young people to be the leaders that will change the tide of history, and it's time for them to get their marching orders.

I'm struck by the words "get their marching orders."

Again, the comments are particularly telling in this post, giving a lot of good backgrounder info.
Another expose of a "BattleCry" rally is at Battle Cry Last Weekend in Philadelphia:


The militaristic imagery was abundant. Throughout Ron Luce's speech, a loud crowd from the back of the stadium would periodically erupt, "We are warriors!"
Some attendees wore shirts with the image of Jesus on the cross, robes waving, and emblazoned across the front the words, "Dressed to Kill."


The first rock band that performed, Delirious, got the crowd festive and up on their feet with lyrics that were projected on large screens so that everyone could join in: "We're an army of God and we're ready to die.... Let's paint this big ol' town red.... We see nothing but the blood of Jesus...."

There have been groups monitoring and warning against Ron Luce, Teen Mania, and BattleCry for some time. One is Biblical America Resistance Front, which has started a new campaign called "Acquire the Evidence"; Responding to the 'BattleCry' campaign: Introducing 'Acquire the Evidence' details more:

I've been part of a team that's been aware of Teen Mania and its founder, Ron Luce, for some years.
Now that they've begun seeking press attention and fomenting controversy to publicize themselves, we've brought our website fully online with the following debut article. Please visit the site at acquiretheevidence.com for additional information.

The article also gives an interesting expose on how Luce is reliant on secular promotion (as there are no promotion companies within the dominionist community capable of handling both the levels of production required and the crowdspace needed for the typical BattleCry rally), and again, the commentary provides some very good backgrounder.
And finally, whilst not related to BattleCry directly, there are other groups that are closely tied to Ron Luce--including the Assemblies of God and Bill Gothard's "character education" groups--that do their own stealth recruitment of youth for "spiritual warfare" groups. This reply thread details one of these projects--the "Seven Project" operated by the Assemblies of God (one of the top promoters of "spiritual warfare" theology, as noted in the article I've written on "dominion theology") and promoted in public schools as a program for at-risk youth. (Kids are actually recruited quite commonly to things like "BattleCry" through groups like the Seven Project.)

It's important to be aware of this, because the roots of this are in the scarier "dominion theology" communities--and there is evidence that the "Army of God" rhetoric has spawned domestic terrorism (in fact, a dominionist domestic terrorist organisation calls itself the "Army of God"). It's also part of an increasing tendency to bring up dominionist kids as "Joel's Army" from birth--using abusive childrearing tactics from the time of infancy, raising them in dominionist households where they are correspondence-schooled and their heads filled with "spiritual warfare" theology (it doesn't hurt that at least one of the major "homeschool" curriculum authors is tied to honest-to-God militia groups), sent to dominionist alternatives to Scouting with particularly heavy emphasis on "spiritual warfare" and even frank paramilitary training, end up in groups like "BattleCry" as teens (and if they don't fit in the dominionist mold, being sent to dominionist-run reeducation camps), sent to dominionist-run colleges where they are schooled in the fine art of hijacking the government or to religious schools where they are taught how to perfect "stealth evangelism" in hijacking mainstream Christian churches, occasionally end up recruited into spiritually abusive pyramid schemes as adults when the MLM is promoted as "spiritual warfare", practice drive-by "territorial pissings" with Wesson oil as a form of "spiritual warfare" (and go on to things like harassing pagans), and go on (at least this is the hopes of dominionists) to conquer the world and hold it under a Pax dominionista, elect pro-dominionist candidates as a form of "spiritual warfare", and end up covering the planet as "Joel's Army" (interestingly, a scripture-twisting which is a reference to an army comparable to a plague of locusts and which utterly destroys the land it has conquered) including subjugating non-dominionists. Most recently, I've written an article--An informative expose of a BattleCry event--that is based on two recent articles (one from an attendee who is a regular on Daily Kos, the other being from well known watchdog Sunsara Taylor) being separate expose's of the recent BattleCry rally in Philadelphia. The separate reports detail things as disparate as the old "AIDS Is God Smitin' Fornicators" canard, a literal "Wild Injun of the Amazon" presentation straight out of "freaks and geeks" Boardwalk sideshows, and "spiritual warfare" theatre produced by a dominionist military group--in an almost complete full circle of the "spiritual warfare" game promoted.

Blaine and Anonymous,

Thanks for the backup re: the Left Behind game.

Blaine,

I think the Battle Cry group, although they have some interesting ideas, are really rather over the top.

I also don't think they're an impending violent threat. The writer of this article is turning the BC into a straw man by conflating them with the Reconstructionist crowd ("dominionists").

mq59 said...
Sorry to interrupt your little wank-fest, but here's the GameSpy preview of the game.

blaine: Hi All,[I had to correct my previous post]
I have about seven articles, some very lengthy, on this "Christian game", including bios of those behind it, and unless the game is changed mg59's comments regardless of what the GameSpy preview had to say, is incorrect. Man, I sure use alot of comma's don't I? :-)
In my opinion this game is a stealth maneuver to make Christians more combative [remember the Crusades?] and bring in a Theocratic based government.
Below is some information on this Christian killing field:

"...The game is set in New York City, where the Tribulation Force clashes with the Antichrist's Global Community Peacekeepers in a tale that makes the United Nations a tool for Satan. Each side attempts to recruit lost souls in the battle for the city. "Eternal Forces" is a so-called real-time strategy game — players act as battlefield generals for their virtual armies, deciding where to place units and when to order attacks or retreats.

In the game, Tribulation squads unleash the usual arsenal against the Antichrist: guns, tanks, helicopters. But soldiers lose some of their spirituality every time they kill an opponent and must be bolstered through prayer. The failure to nurture good guys causes their spirit points to drop, leaving them vulnerable to recruitment by the other side.

The player's choices prompt intervention by angelic forces or unleash demons who feast on the faithful. As players progress through the increasingly difficult levels, they see Scripture passages presented as secret scrolls and hear inspirational music.

In multiplayer games, participants can choose to command the Antichrist's forces...Not surprisingly, Left Behind Games' attempt to make Christianity accessible to youngsters through the use of lethal firepower has its critics. Thompson, for instance, said he severed ties with Tyndale House in a dispute over "Eternal Forces."

"It's absurd," the video game critic said. "You can be the Christians blowing away the infidels, and if that doesn't hit your hot button, you can be the Antichrist blowing away all the Christians."
Enough said. Later my friends, blaine

I am involved with young people of many stripes in a JROTC program, and as I have occassion to wear my "hero medals" many of the kids ask me about them, and my very visible scars from combat. The ones who insist on asking what it "feels like" to lose friends in action or to kill people are almost always from some stricty fundy background. They long for it, the elimination of "the enemy". Who might that be? Doesn't matter.

Blaine,

Thanks for your explaination of the game.... It looks as though I was right all along.

Onanite

That is absolutely sickening. How is this kind of thing legal?

I like RTS games, and the mechanics in this one actually look like they involve a unique twist (something which computer games need in a modern market) which I'd actually like to play.

Personally I'm against censorship, so I think it's fine
- as long as everybody realises it's all make believe.

Except that's the problem, because many people actually believe this is all really going to happen - and that it's their duty to live it out...

This report was very inaccurate. The game does not have the player try to establish a theocracy or kill people who don’t convert. In fact, you are penalized for killing people, even though Christian forces are fighting against the anti-Christ’s army. See more about the nature of the game, with quotes from secular reviewers who have actually played it:

http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2006/06/truth-about-left-behind-video-game.htm

Layman, I think that's already been established, however we don't need to try and pin any negativity on the game in particular.
The game is actually a homogenised version of what is written in the bible itself, in passages like Numbers 31:1-18, Deuteronomy 2:32-34 & 3:3-7.

That's the OT though, bible-god has changed his ways since then (?), and christians are working towards the time when he will come with vengeance (how enlightened) and his 'four horsemen of the apocalypse' to set up his insidious 'New World Order', treading the winepress of the fury of his wrath which pours with the blood of men, just like in Revelation 14 & 19 - and in this game...

Layman wrote: "This report was very inaccurate. The game does not have the player try to establish a theocracy or kill people who don’t convert..."

Blaine: Hi Layman, I would hope that you are correct but I have hi-lighted some of my points. As to the idea of a Theocracy being wished for/promoted etc I have had youth in my fundamental youth group join hands and pray for a Theocracy. Many in my adult Sunday School class wanted a Theocracy [our nation governed by the Bible]. This feeling has intensified in the last eight years.
I stayed in my AG church as long as possible because some of my gay kids, including some who were going to commit suicide, asked me not to leave or come out because then, "We will have no one to talk to".
I have now been excluded for being gay even though I am celibate, including no porno, but our new pastor wanted me out.
I stayed at that church because of my friends and those youth who were scared to death and felt like they were the dung of the Earth for being gay-not because I believed in their doctrines.
I do believe in a God who loves us all but I also believe the Bible was corrupted by the hand of man for political and religious control of the masses.
Why do I believe in a God who loves us all? Because when I look into the heavens and see/realize that I am looking at billions of stars, clustered in over a billion galaxies [of which some scientists say are moving faster than the speed of light], separated by millions/billions of light years and realize that in one rather smaller galaxy there is a planet named Earth near it's outer edge and on that planet lives a person named blaine and each of you here, I bow my head and raise my arms to our Creator who proved His love for me on a cold winter night in 1971 and proved His love for us all at a place called Calvary some 2000 years ago.
That is my story in brief but I will stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone here and prevent any kind of Theocracy from being established.
Layman, you need to listen more to preachers like Ron Parsley, Hagee, many on TBN and others of mega churches and realize that there is a very strong current that is flowing towards a Theocracy even though they try to say that is not their intention.
If I'm able I'll try to find a sermon by Rev Parsley with some comments to help you understand the danger our nation is facing.
Anyway here are some of my repeated quotes: In the game, Tribulation squads unleash the usual arsenal against the Antichrist: guns, tanks, helicopters. But soldiers lose some of their spirituality every time they kill an opponent and must be bolstered through prayer. The failure to nurture good guys causes their spirit points to drop, leaving them vulnerable to recruitment by the other side....
Not surprisingly, Left Behind Games' attempt to make Christianity accessible to youngsters through the use of lethal firepower has its critics. Thompson, for instance, said he severed ties with Tyndale House in a dispute over "Eternal Forces."

"It's absurd," the video game critic said. "You can be the Christians blowing away the infidels, and if that doesn't hit your hot button, you can be the Antichrist blowing away all the Christians."

Later my friends,
blaine

I don't like a lot of those people (I'm thinking primarily about Robertson and Hagee--I know relatively little about Parsley other than he's really sweaty and hyperactive) either--thing is, I don't really see a theocracy around the corner.

Eventually there will be some new political fad. This year it's "the evangelicals." Next go-round it could easily be some other demographic.

Blaine: Here is the article about Rev Rod Parsley, it speaks volumes:
Reformation America
By Tanya Erzen Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 04:50:36 PM EST
On an April morning at World Harvest church in Canal Winchester, Ohio, Pastor Rod Parsley declared to the four thousand people assembled in his tabernacle:

The church has been confined to church too long...the idea of the separation of church and state is the biggest lie that was ever perpetrated in America. And simply put, it's time for us to speak up for an America based on the foundation our fathers established - a foundation of faith and of commitment to moral boundaries. We've lost that America. But we can get it back! ...Our times demand it. Our history compels it. Our future requires it. And God is watching.
Parsley is one of the leaders of Reformation Ohio, a plan to elect conservative Christians to school board and local legislatures throughout the state by registering two million new Christian voters. Parsley is also a member of the nationwide Patriot Pastors movement, led by Pastor Rick Scarborough, which urges pastors "to promote their congregation's citizenship responsibilities in addition to their spiritual growth." Churches like World Harvest are the institutional basis for a wider Christian Right political agenda that is increasingly blurring the boundaries between the pulpit and the arena of partisan politics.


topic: All Topics section:Front Page


Parsley is representative of a cadre conservative pastors who are using their churches as forums to explicitly discuss political issues and build an extensive grassroots network of conservative religious voters. In these churches, the pastor's ability to introduce listeners to issues like gay marriage, distribute voter registration cards and values voting guides was a powerful tool during the 2004 presidential elections, and it will be this fall during the Ohio gubernatorial race.
Parsley's church participated in the I Vote Values campaign, a grassroots voter mobilization and education effort spearheaded by Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. It provided a crucial link between churches and the Bush/Cheney campaign during the 2004 election. The goal of "I Vote Values," was to register two million previously unregistered voters for the 2004 election by educating Christians about "values-based voting" through an eight-page voter guide, a half a million copies of which Land distributed to pastors to use as talking points to speak to their congregations. The impetus behind "I Vote Values" was that voting was a biblical duty:


Our attempts to make a difference in society flow from the fact that as Christians we have responsibilities in the realm of the nation as well as in the realm of the Lord's Kingdom.
Land advised Christians to consider themselves, "citizen Christians," citizens of both earthly and spiritual realms with responsibilities in each. "Ultimately, our loyalty belongs not to any political party or candidate, but to God almighty." Under the section "seeking God for our government," Land included an injunction for Christians to pray for elected officials to lead the nation "according to Judeo-Christian principles," and "to know Christ and be saved." The citizenship message reminded voters that only their core values-- life, family and freedom, should determine their choice for president. For state representatives, "Ask what their position is on abortion, cloning, embryonic stem cell research, and euthanasia. We value life."

The success of the Republican ground campaign during the 2004 elections was partially due to a highly coordinated, face-to-face strategy to bring people to the polls with churches providing key institutional spaces for organizing. By calling voting a biblical duty, pastors like Parsley made participation in the election an extension of membership in church. They also used the church venues to discuss and disseminate these ideas.

Today, as part of Reformation Ohio, Rod Parsley has created a three-year, ten-step plan to "bring spiritual revival and moral reformation to Ohio." Parsley is organizing thousands of evangelical, Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic leaders as part of the "Patriot Pastors" network to register new voters and enlist activists. He has close ties to Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council who has also spoken at World Harvest church. Phil Burress, the head of an Ohio-based political action committee called Citizens for Community Values Action (CCVA) is also linked to Reformation Ohio.

The immediate goal of Reformation Ohio is to elect Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell governor of Ohio in 2006. Blackwell is a conservative Christian who was the state co-chair of the Bush-Cheney re-election effort in 2004, and he simultaneously supervised the 2004 presidential election as Ohio Secretary of State. During the 2004 election, Parsley, Burress, and Blackwell campaigned vigorously for the same-sex marriage ban in Ohio with Blackwell personally appearing on radio broadcasts. Through campaign contributions and joint public appearances, Parsley and Burress are supporting Blackwell's bid to become the Republican gubernatorial nominee in 2006.

This election is critical not just for Ohio, but for the national elections in 2008 as well. With Blackwell as governor, the republican candidate for president will face a sympathetic and supportive state apparatus in Ohio in 2008. In 2004, Ohio swung the election to Bush despite wide reports of voting irregularities in predominantly urban and democratic precincts. If Blackwell becomes governor, the Christian Right in Ohio will have unprecedented institutional power and backing.

What can be done to oppose the Christian Right in Ohio and throughout the country? This is not a simply a question of values or voter irregularities, it is also a question of organization and institutions. Whether democrats can win in the fall and ultimately in 2008 will depend on progressive organizations and religious groups from a variety of faiths and denominations mobilizing their members and countering the message of Parsley, Burress, and Reformation Ohio. Although groups like America Votes are doing important work, in order to defeat a Christian Right agenda, it is critical to have a grassroots network of progressive religious leaders who can promote a different message from Rod Parsley.

As I've written, one site of hope is We Believe. We Believe is a group of Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish leaders and laypeople from Columbus and Cleveland who aim to promote a progressive message on faith and public policy, "speaking as a unified voice of faith representing the diversity of Ohio's religious communities, and ensuring that religion is not co-opted by voices of intolerance and division."



YES to justice for all
NO to prosperity for only a few;
YES to diverse religious expression
NO to self-righteous certainty;
YES to the common good
NO to discrimination against any of God's people;
YES to the voice of religious traditions informing public policy
NO to crossing the lines that separate the institutions of Religion and Government.


We Believe plans to focus on social justice issues and to inform their constituencies about voting through public events, a website, and a book of sermons on social justice. These are important steps in challenging the Christian Right in Ohio, but national grassroots mobilizations are necessary as well. The success of the Christian Right is due to years of institution building on the local and state level. Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council, Concerned Women for America, and the American Family Association, among others have local and state councils that promote their agenda and tie them to a national policy center. A new message is crucial, but so are the networks and sites of affiliation for people to get involved in issues, and to feel they have a means to combat the theocratic message of someone like Rod Parsley. Churches, especially, continue to play a key role in galvanizing their constituencies around political issues. Secular and religious progressives have slowly realized they have been left behind, and it is imperative that we catch up.

Blaine; This subject has me going :-) and I have not even downloaded my articles on "Battle Cry" which can be researched through Google.
As you read this article, let the words concerning secularism soak in.
Later my friends, blaine
The Article re. the just finished National Spelling Bee:
Derek Conley, a home-schooled fifth grader from Marindell, CA, saw his hopes dashed when he bungled 'secularism,' (the view that religious considerations should be excluded from public affairs and education).
Derek said that he's still kicking himself for misspelling a word that he hears his parents use so frequently. "It's one of those bad words, almost like a cuss word. I think that's why I messed it up."

Can you spell 'drrty'?
Not all of the 34 home-schoolers participating in this year's contest were bounced in the first rounds. Fifth-grader Justin Stewart of Dewey, OK, hung on till the third round before being felled by a word he'd never even heard before—let alone used in a sentence. After successfully spelling his way through 'consecrated' (made sacred or holy), 'intracutaneous' (within the skin) and 'acropetal' (developing upward toward the apex from the base), Justin met his match with 'sapphic,' meaning of or pertaining to homosexuality among women.

"I just couldn't believe it when they announced his word," says Justin's mother, Annabelle Stewart. "The whole reason we pulled him out of the public schools in the first place is so he wouldn't have to be exposed to a filthy word like that." Mrs. Stewart says that she and other mothers of home-schooled contestants are considering filing a suit against the contest's sponsor through the Home School Legal Defense Association, requiring that all words used in the contest be approved by a parents group.

"These kids work so hard to get here and then they're asked to spell words like 'sapphic' and 'secularism,'" Mrs. Stewart complains. "These are terms they shouldn't even have to see or hear, let alone spell."

Should contestants in the National Spelling Bee have to spell words that are offensive to parents with traditional values? Talk back to deannaswift1@yahoo.com.
ALSO here is one more article on Theocracy or it's close cousin:
Southern Baptists Organizing for Dominion in Europe
By Mainstream Baptist Wed May 31, 2006 at 12:56:09 PM EST

Key leaders of the takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) are preparing to meet with European Fundamentalist leaders in June at Oradea, Romania. Paige Patterson, O.S. Hawkins and Richard Land are rumored to be preparing to speak at what is being billed as a "Missions Conference" at Emanuel University in Oradea. Patterson, President of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, was one of the architects of the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC. Hawkins is President of GuideStone Financial Resources the agency that manages 8.5 Billion dollars worth of pensions, annuities and trusts for Southern Baptist ministers and institutions. Land heads the SBC's Washington, D.C. based political action arm.
topic: Front Page section:Front Page


Organizing the conference for European Fundamentalists is Paul Negrut, a minister at Second Baptist Church of Oradea. Second Baptist Oradea, a European megachurch with several thousand members, is the largest Baptist church in Romania and the second largest Baptist church in Europe. Romania has the largest percentage of Baptists per capita of any country in Europe.
Negrut is serving his final year as the President of the Baptist Union (BU) of Romania. He has been a critic of the Baptist World Alliance (BWA) and a strong supporter of strengthening ties with the SBC. Last year, he unsuccessfully proposed that the Romanian BU should reconsider its links with the BWA after the SBC withdrew from BWA.

There is little doubt that the SBC is sending some of it's heavy-weights into Romania to attempt to weaken the BWA and organize a world-wide Baptist body under SBC control. Last summer Negrut organized a similar meeting between SBC leaders and European Fundamentalists in Warsaw, Poland but that meeting proved unproductive.

Re: Parsley,

Oh gag.

Re: the home-schoolers,

That's kind of silly.

Re: The SBC in Europe,

I don't think the "dominon" mentioned in the headline is the same sort of "dominion" the Reconstructionist types are referring to. The SBC wants to assimilate the Romanian Baptists (but then the SBC wouldn't be SOUTHERN Baptists now would they, unless you count Southern Europe)--they're not trying to take over Romania.

Well, what can I say? The article pretty much speaks for itself. Talaban wih crosses, looks like. I have a feeling that Jack T. Chick himself would call these people insane (but then you can never tell with that guy)

Actually, I think there are basically two types of christians, and Theists in general;

Some lead realtively normal lives and are happy to live by "Thou shalt not kill", "Thou shalt not steal", etc, but tend to ignore or re-enterperet stuff like Deutoronemy 22;28/29 or the stuff abou slavery and trial wives etc.

The other type of Christians are the ones who re-interperet "Thou shalt not kill". "Well, originally it actually said 'murder', not kill, and if you kill innocent people who happen to be foregin durin a war, that doesn't count as murder (for some reason)".