News of interest to former Christians

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Last Thursday, Ron Jeremy, the world’s biggest porn star, came to Northeastern to debate pornography with a pastor named Craig Gross. Gross founded an anti-porn website, xxxchurch.com, and claims God avenges masturbation by killing kittens; he also ministers to porn addicts and former adult film stars. Jeremy and Gross met at last year’s Erotica LA convention. We’re not making this shit up.

Hordes of porn-crazed students milled about the Blackman Auditorium, anticipating the titanic clash. Allison Romano came looking for “a good debate.” She also predicted a victory for Jeremy, in no small part because the Hedgehog “can suck his own dick.”

Inside the auditorium, the debate began dubiously. The moderator demanded a substantive discussion, with “fluff questions” kept to a minimum; the instructions set the room all a-titter.

Boos and laughs peppered Gross’s introduction, but the audience did seem impressed by the 60 million hits xxxchurch.com has logged. More impressive, though, was Jeremy’s résumé of over 1,800 adult films, and his bold wardrobe choice—a Hawaiian shirt paired with red and black track pants.

Gross, the young and confident underdog, got things started. “I started my website because of people like you, who’ve been misled about pornography,” he said. “I don’t want to shut down the porn industry, but for some people, it leads to a dead end. Porn is all about creating fantasies, but the fantasies are creating unrealistic expectations of what you should expect in sex.”

Gross also laid one-third of the nation’s divorces at the feet of porn-related relationship dysfunctions, and warned, to more twitters, “Porn is a parasite on your brain. Get off now while you still can.”

“Why he picks on porn, I don’t know,” Jeremy countered. “It’s consenting adults having consenting sex, and being watched by consenting adults. If you have a problem with it, don’t watch it.”

He continued, “Any kind of addiction is not good. But if you have a good job, you’re a productive member of society, and you want to go home, watch porn, masturbate and go to sleep, that’s OK. Why do you have to stop watching porn? Why stop having cream cheese on your bagel?”

During the debate’s Q&A session, the crowd seemed maddened by Gross’s refusal to sensationalize his argument. He wouldn’t say that porn creates murderers and rapists, but only that it might establish behaviors and expectations that can undermine monogamous relationships.

Two streakers interrupted a discussion about the merits/evils of double-anal penetration. The guy screamed his devotion to Jeremy and then escaped out a side door, but when his female companion reached the auditorium stage, she froze; not knowing where to go, she threw her hands in the air, turned around and galloped back up the aisle she’d just run down—right into the arms of an NUPD officer.

“Wow,” Jeremy marveled, “this is the first time I’ve ever been upstaged. I’ve spoken at colleges all across the country, and never been streaked.” Then he became introspective, musing, “She had a pretty nice body … ”

Streaker Girl wasn’t the evening’s most humiliated female, though; that honor was won by a student who suggested to Jeremy that porn degrades women.

“It’s sex—it’s not dehumanizing,” he replied. “What are you referring to, a pop-shot on your face?”

The student said that, while money shots weren’t the specific thrust of her complaint, they were problematic. So Jeremy suggested several other ways of finishing off a guy without taking a blast to the kisser: “On your stomach, your back, your shoulder, your breasts, in your mouth, a towel, a condom—there are lots of ways to do it.”

However, the Hedgehog added, “Some girls don’t mind a little sperm on their face,” and requested a show of hands to prove his point. A girl in the balcony stood up, and received an ovation from several guys nearby. This caused the first student to blurt out, “I don’t want men to cum in my face, ever!”

“Why not?” Jeremy asked. “I let girls squirt on my face!”

At that point, the moderator stepped in and declared the event over. “Thanks for coming,” he said, to even more laughter.

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Comments:
Blogger algonz36 said...
“I don’t want to shut down the porn industry, but for some people, it leads to a dead end. Porn is all about creating fantasies, but the fantasies are creating unrealistic expectations
of what you should expect in sex.”

Well. let's use the same logic, here. "I do want to shut down the christian industry, because for all people it is all about creating fantasies, and fantasies are creating unrealistic expectations of what you should expect in life."

Doesn't it sound right?

Alvaro Gonzalez
Santiago, Chile


Blogger S.L. said...
Oh god!
I killed a kitten last night!
What's wrong with fantasies anyway?
The Bible, and it's spin offs, including the well meant website of Mr (Rev.) Goss, spins lies and is created to keep us under control.
I won't really like a man to cum in my face, but what's that got to do with anything? It's all about personal choice. What personal choice is Mr Goss offering? Follow(my idea of)god and forget human nature or go to hell!
But, then anyone who follows a god who kills innocent animals when people act according to human nature is. . .well, a good follower of Biblegod!
All the best.


Blogger JTFINALLYFREE said...
If the Porn Industry leads people to a dead end then shit I should have gotten into the Porn industry becuase Christianity left me the same way if not worse. When I finally found my way out of this crazy trap called Christianity I found myself heartbroken, confused, depressed, lonely, and pessimistic about people and life in general. It has been almost five years now and I'm just starting to get my life and my thoughts together. If I would have known this when I got "saved" at 15 I could have gotten into the Porn industry because at least it would have ended with the same result and I probably would have had alott more fun and made alott more money. LOL.


Blogger Aaron said...
Can anyone find a video of this?
"A"


Blogger freedy said...
Porn is just fuel ministries use to create fear to raise more money!
A recent survey reveals that 60% of
christian ministers frequently look at internet porn.
I agree with Alvaro and s.I.,the violent bible god is much more offensive!


Anonymous sbwilley said...
If porn can be said to humiliate either sex more than the other, it's men. The insinuation that men should have to pay for a peek at women doing these things is insulting to men. Prostitution is an even worse insult to men, invented by women.


Anonymous tigg13 said...
Its capitalism willey, pure and simple capitalism. If men weren't looking to buy, women wouldn't be trying to sell. But you can't blame women for that. They're just earning a living like everyone else.


Anonymous sbwilley said...
Tigg13:

Prostitution is not capitalism. It is pure laziness. There is no investment and it produces nothing of any value. People who prostitute themselves and produce pornography merely cheapen themselves and cop out on a productive life.

There are also "buyers" for bigotry, racism and religion. This doesn't prevent us from judging them as immoral.


Anonymous tigg13 said...
Willey said "Prostitution is not capitalism. It is pure laziness. There is no investment and it produces nothing of any value."

I think you've been hanging out with the wrong hookers.

Seriously though, my problem with your post was that you were laying all the blame for prostitution and pornography onto women and making men out to be the victims. I think you've got it all backwards. If men have been cheapened or insulted by pornography or prostitution then they've brought it on themselves by objectifying women and turning sex into a commodity.

Furthermore, I don't think you can compare prostitution (which is a profession) with racism, bigotry or religion (which are ideologies). Could you say, for instance, that all lawyers are immoral?

Well, maybe that's not such a good example. How about saying that since educating children is morally right, then all teachers must be moral people? Stereotyping people by what they do can be just as prejudicial as judging them by their race, age, gender or ethnic background.


Anonymous sbwilley said...
tigg13:

I have never been with a prostitute. There are lots of ranches in Nevada I drove by when I worked up there. Some of the guys I worked with thought they were great fun. I insisted that if any man driving by can go inside and have his way with those women, there's nothing in there I want.

You're right that men make a mistake creating a market for prostitution and pornography. They allow themselves to be humiliated as I indicated. I was just trying to counter the constant message that these things humiliate and subjugate women without mention of the harm to men.

There's a good book called "The Hazards of Being Male: Surviving the Myth of Masculine Privilege." I read it when I was quite young, and one of Dr. Herb Goldberg's best arguments was that men sabotage their own sexuality going after prostitutes and pornstars.

The earlier comment about unrealistic expectations was probably correct also. Men are advised to consider what kind of sexual attention they are worthy of. Are you an average-looking, overweight, middle-aged couch potato? If so, do you think you deserve a young supermodel? You're probably faking reality.

Take another look at your wife, if you're married. Has she gone downhll any more than you? Why didn't she keep herself looking like that supermodel, just for you? Look at yourself in the mirror and think about the attention you've been giving her. Do you think you can really do better? If she's not giving you the kind of attention you see men getting in pornography, are you giving her the attention she sees in the soaps? Give her what she wants and maybe it will come back to you.

I was probably hasty saying that women invented the "oldest profession." They may have had priests pimping them and practiced out of temples. I haven't researched this subject thoroughly. I only repeated a legend.

I mentioned prostitution and pornography in the same sentence with racism, bigotry and religion because all of these practices involve a cop-out.

Jeremiah Johnson said something to the effect of, "Men will dream up a thousand ways to pass away their time on this earth." From an objective standpoint, prostitution is not productive work. It is among the least valuable ways human beings have ever dreamed up to pass away their time.

Yes, I am being judgmental, by the way. I am not afraid to weigh the value of any human behavior and say it's immoral, when it is objectively so.


Anonymous Heathen Sister said...
sbwilley:

Wow. You have issues I don't think any website can help.

"The insinuation that men should have to pay for a peek at women doing these things is insulting to men." So women should just give it up whenever a man wants???? Or maybe the men should just TAKE whatever they want whenever they want? Do I detect a bit of Napoleon Complex here?

Prostitution wouldn't exist without men. And it was probably "invented" from need by both sides.

Cave man has fresh mammoth meat. Cave woman is hungry. Cave woman asks for mammoth meat but has no berries to trade. Cave man says you can have some, but when you're done eating I get piece of ass. Cave woman has no choice as she is starving and freely giving that piece of ass is better than the alternative. UGH!


Anonymous sbwilley said...
Heathen Sister:

I'm not looking for help here, just a place to talk, listen, share and debate.

No, women should not have to give it up whenever a man wants, and men cannot just take what they want. We call those things coercion and rape. (the men who do it we often call clergy).

I cannot imagine rape or coercion being pleasurable or satisfying any need of mine. I also cannot imagine being satisfied after paying a prostitute. I can't even bring myself to pay for a lap dance on those rare occasions when I've ended up in a strip club (I'll tip the dancer's for their stage act).

I prefer the attention of a liberated woman who truly digs me and wants to show it -- my wife, when she's in the mood.

What do you mean, I have issues? Please tell me what do I need help with?


Anonymous Anonymous said...
test


Blogger zAcK said...
I just want you to understand that the purpose is not "Look at porn and you'll go to Hell." God's #1 goal for you is not obedience. If all God wanted was obedience he could get it lol no sweat for him. He's big enough, strong enough. His goal is for your trust. Honestly, if you don't know anything about God, know this: you could NEVER change... you could do whatever you want and God will never love you any less.

This isn't an issue of you going to heaven or hell. It's an issue of reality. You don't have to believe in God to know that porn can and will hurt your life and it DOES ruin lives. I've seen it happen over and over and over again to people. including people who think the bible is a load of crap... it's not just "guilty christians". I'm not condeming porn. i don't support it but i'm not out to shut it down... that's a little idealistic.

Sex was God's idea... he invented it. Despite what some religious people might have told you, God wants you to have an AMAZING and awesome, off the charts sexlife. You CAN have sex whenever and however you want...obviously... But just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Sex will work a lot of different ways but it works BEST in a specific context. ~Fire in your fireplace is a good thing; but if fire gets outside your fireplace it'll burn ur house down.~

And a lot of people share that story. And if you can't control yourself now, what makes you think a wedding ring's gonna change it? in 5, 10, 20 years when the fire's kinda gone down, what makes you think he/she wont look somewhere else? I'm not trying to give you some religious bible-smacking. i'm just warning you, you need to be careful. Pornography is a dead end road. you dont have to believe in God...you know that's true.


Anonymous Matt said...
I know this topic is probably kind of old and dead, but I have to say something, at least for my sanity's sake.

Bill Hicks once said (to the effect of) "Everyone smokes, it may not be cigarettes, but everyone smokes" and I believe what he meant by that was everyone has an addiction. If porn is your addiction, then so be it. If working out makes you feel good and you're addicted to the endorphins, then so be it. If you drink 3, 20 oz. bottles of Mountain Dew everyday because the taste/the color/the caffeine is nice, then so be it. Far be it for another human being, no better and no worse than you, to tell you what you can and cannot do on this Earth, this beautiful gorgeous planet. Also, these pastors use deception to lure potential visitors to their website. Honestly when you saw the domain name “XXXChurch.com” you were not saying to yourself “Man, I’m ready for God”. I don’t know about anyone else, but when I think of “church” I think of a congregation of like minded individuals. Maybe not completely on the same position on every issue, but eye level nonetheless. So in effect “XXXChurch.com” in my opinion says to me “Here’s a website full of porn and porn related material”. You could say technically that it is about porn, but come on…. They didn’t put provocatively titled material up there to attract other Christians is what I’m trying to say I suppose. Not to mention the “Jesus Loves Porn Stars” bibles they’re selling are emblazoned with that title to attract the curious. (That’s straight from Craig Gross’s mouth, mayhap not exactly worded in that way.)

The point I’m trying to illustrate here: What causes more ruin in any relationship, porn or deception? I know of couples who watch porn together and enjoy it; I know of no couple that enjoy lying to one another. You could say “Well they’re not telling you to lie to your spouse or yourself or anything” but in effect, if they’re trying to reach out to you via deceptive methods, isn’t the good pastors at XXXChurch.com trying to tell you, it’s okay to deceive 60 Million people (give or take) as long as it’s in the name of their idea of God? They’re reaching out to teenagers (and believe me, someone needs to) but they’re capitalizing on them. If you go to www.xxxchurch.com they have a store geared toward the younger generation. They have hoodies, buttons, track jackets, CD’s and whatever will, but nowhere in the store or on the main site does it say “all proceeds go to (insert charitable organization here)”. And it would seem to me that two pastors out for the message of God would get non-profit funding from the government.

It’s like this, if they were concerned with the youth of today, and the addiction of today and what not, how about run a campaign on the usage of drugs in the younger crowd. What’s a more serious threat, a young high school student masturbating to the thought of the head cheerleader, or him taking speed and killing himself, for whatever crazy, drug induced hallucination he has. Not to mention, masturbation is good for your health, studies are saying that a regiment of masturbation helps to exercise the prostate and lessen the risk of the most common cancer.

It’s a common theme, the church deceives us with the prospects of benevolence and capitalizes on our ignorance. However, it would be unfair to think that every Christian is the same way, I know there are those out there that do follow the second hand word of God (I mean no offense) and are truly good people. Would probably jump in front of a bullet to save your life. These guys at xxxchurch.com however, are using glamour, pop music sound and trendy clothing styles to market, yes, market their product. And the irony of it all is that their product is sex as well. In a nutshell they are capitalizing on the same market.


Anonymous Anonymous said...
I disagree, atleast as far as the XXXchuch website...they are not selling porn, they are trying to show the other side of it. But they are being creative about trying to draw attention from people that would probably never seek out an anti-porn website. They have to be edgy and creative to do that. Christianity aside, porn has been a dead-end in my life. I have found it to be a very selfish, isolating, and insatiable pursuit...and that has nothing to do with whether you are a Christian or not. It is tough to go from habitually indulging in pornography to trying to relate to a real person that is not a porn star, either in appearance or desire. I think that is their message regarding porn. Also, they are just kidding about God killing kittens, so everyone relax : )


Anonymous Anonymous said...
I see a lot of people not willing to face some very simple realities. Porn is a blight on humanity. I know because I love it. I am fully addicted to it and can't stop. I've tried. I can't. It is destroying my life and I still can't stop. I don't know what it's gonna take.

The same God who created sex also created Matrimony. The two go together. Sex outside of Matrimony is always addictive, because it is always sin, and the only thing that can save you from addiction is love, and all sin is anti-love.

I don't care if you don't believe in God. That is your foolishness, if you don't. But at least believe in love, and at least recognize that pornography kills love. Never mind God killing kittens. Pornography kills love. That's all!


Blogger .:webmaster:. said...
Anonymous,

You said that "porn kills love," but earlier you said "I love it (porn)."

And you love Jesus, too?

Your obviously confused, and you may be addicted and need help, but just because some people get addicted to alcohol, it doesn't make having a glass of wine a sin. Just because some people are addicted to gambling, that doesn't make a friendly game of poker a blight on humanity.

Not everyone is so easily addicted to the same things as you. Let's not have another wave of prohibition, please.


Anonymous Anonymous said...
I remember that some time in the previous posts, someone said that porn isn't addictive. Not true. Everyone who has struggled with porn knows it's true. I've been a Christian for 7 years. I'm only 19 years old and am just now abstaining from masturbation and pornography. It's difficult. I'm not saying you have to be a Christian. But know this. Every sin in the Bible causes destruction. You don't have to be a Christian to know that lying, stealing, lusting, and adultery leads to a destructive lifestyle.


Blogger stronger now said...
Anonymouse:"I've been a Christian for 7 years. I'm only 19 years old and am just now abstaining from masturbation and pornography."

Why? Are you afraid that a big scary sky-god is looking at you when you flog the bishop? If looking at nekked womens is such a "bad" thing to do, then why does your god do it so much?

"It's difficult."

Don't you mean it's HARD!

"I'm not saying you have to be a Christian. But know this. Every sin in the Bible causes destruction."

You're saying this on an ex-christian site. If we worried over what the big book of myths said we'd still be christians. Geeez!

" You don't have to be a Christian to know that lying, stealing, lusting, and adultery leads to a destructive lifestyle."

Any behaviour that becomes a compulsion has the potential to lead to a destructive lifestyle in THIS life. Even the compulsion to talk mentally with imaginary beings.

If you tend to have problems in this life because you look at porn and masterbate too much to have a healthy balanced life, then by all means, stop doing it so much. But don't try and tell others that they are ruining their lives too.

Not everyone's life is destroyed by a lie. Some lives are said to be saved by them.


Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Every time you masturbate...God Kills a kitten! It started out in an email by an anonymous person and we took it to a whole new level. First the video, then the T-shirt, and now even a song. Take a look around here and find out what Operation Save the Kittens is all about."

"Does God really kill kittens?
You would have to talk to Bible scholars about that, but I don't think he does. It's just a great way to think about this issue in a non-threatening way."

I'm not sure if you guys missed their sarcasm, or just didn't see the statement underneath it, but either way, noboday at xxxchurch thinks masturbation kills kittens. and yes, Craig Gross goes to porn conventions to reach out, as seeen on his site. Its not like hes participating in it all. i know you'll say all christians do this and some probably do, but please don't take things out of context like that just to make it look bad.


Blogger SamiB said...
I met Ron Jeremy a couple of years ago at an erotica expo. It truly was a religious experience! He even layed his hands on me and I was immediately cured of heartburn.

The man is a messiah, and very like jesus in so many ways. Look at the joy and love he spreads around so liberally. I personally think that every motel and hotel should replace their 'bedside table bibles' for one of Ron Jeremy's DVD's and the world would be a far more loving place to hangout in.

I also think life would also be much simpler for most of us if in times of need we reached for a porno as opposed to a bibble!


Blogger michaelmarkley said...
Hey ,, a 30 ft wally the wiener is not Christian,,its sick
theses people are sick! ;;;; peter the porn puppet with Ron Jeremy telling children at a grocery porn is for adults is Sick..
I really think Ron Jeremy is behind XXX church it is a stunt by Him like the tobacco companies anti smoking campains...
I would not be surprised if Ron Jeremy started and Financed XXX Church.com..................


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