 |
 |
 |
encouraging ex-Christians
News of interest to former Christians
By JEFF SMITH
If you believe in evolution you have to say, "Thank God for Darwin." And you also have to say, "Thank Darwin for God." Or at least thank the Darwinian evolution.
It's our biology that gives us a long childhood. And our long childhood gives us time to learn all the things we need to know to survive in this world. If we didn't learn them, we wouldn't survive. We learn what to eat and what not to eat, to play in the yard and not in the street, things like that. We learn by experience and by trusting the experiences of others.
We learn to learn. We learn to look for meaning and evidence, to ask questions. We learn that our parents know the answers to our questions -- all the questions we know how to ask when we are young. In fact, we learn that there is always an answer. All we have to do is to find out who knows it.
But when we get past the toddler stage, we learn that there are questions that even our parents don't have the answers to. And some of those questions are the big ones. You know, like where did we come from, stuff like that. And some are little, like where does chocolate come from.
And some are fuzzy, often we call them moral questions, like the difference between right and wrong. And there are questions we can't know the answer to, like how does an owl think and what does he think about? And even some that are beyond the capacity of our brains to comprehend. No matter, we grew up learning that there is always an answer, but who, we may ask, can answer the hard questions, and where is he so I can ask and learn? Well, it's someone somewhere.
Difficult questions need not be idle questions; they may be matters of life and death. Or so they can seem. Our desire for certainty, even for absolute knowledge, is built into us just as surely as our brains are. And the anxiety of not knowing -- about what's around the corner, about imminent danger, about the threats of the weather -- has led us to fashion answers and a source of those answers.
That source can be speculation and guessing, it can be divining by looking at chicken entrails, questing like a pilgrim monk or creating a being that knows everything. Yes, a god.
And all of this happens because it's the way we have learned to survive. If we didn't do it, we wouldn't survive as a species. It's the essence of natural selection. Yes, God is a product of evolution.
Whoever said that if gods didn't exist man would have to invent them was right. Because that is just what happened. And what could be better. We can make our gods omnipotent, able to do anything and everything. We can make our gods omnipresent, always there to answer our questions. We can make them omniscient, knowing everything, even things we don't know and can't know. We can make our gods any thing and any way we like.
And that's exactly what we do. I call that intelligent design.
If you believe in evolution you have to say, "Thank God for Darwin." And you also have to say, "Thank Darwin for God." Or at least thank the Darwinian evolution.
It's our biology that gives us a long childhood. And our long childhood gives us time to learn all the things we need to know to survive in this world. If we didn't learn them, we wouldn't survive. We learn what to eat and what not to eat, to play in the yard and not in the street, things like that. We learn by experience and by trusting the experiences of others.
We learn to learn. We learn to look for meaning and evidence, to ask questions. We learn that our parents know the answers to our questions -- all the questions we know how to ask when we are young. In fact, we learn that there is always an answer. All we have to do is to find out who knows it.
But when we get past the toddler stage, we learn that there are questions that even our parents don't have the answers to. And some of those questions are the big ones. You know, like where did we come from, stuff like that. And some are little, like where does chocolate come from.
And some are fuzzy, often we call them moral questions, like the difference between right and wrong. And there are questions we can't know the answer to, like how does an owl think and what does he think about? And even some that are beyond the capacity of our brains to comprehend. No matter, we grew up learning that there is always an answer, but who, we may ask, can answer the hard questions, and where is he so I can ask and learn? Well, it's someone somewhere.
Difficult questions need not be idle questions; they may be matters of life and death. Or so they can seem. Our desire for certainty, even for absolute knowledge, is built into us just as surely as our brains are. And the anxiety of not knowing -- about what's around the corner, about imminent danger, about the threats of the weather -- has led us to fashion answers and a source of those answers.
That source can be speculation and guessing, it can be divining by looking at chicken entrails, questing like a pilgrim monk or creating a being that knows everything. Yes, a god.
And all of this happens because it's the way we have learned to survive. If we didn't do it, we wouldn't survive as a species. It's the essence of natural selection. Yes, God is a product of evolution.
Whoever said that if gods didn't exist man would have to invent them was right. Because that is just what happened. And what could be better. We can make our gods omnipotent, able to do anything and everything. We can make our gods omnipresent, always there to answer our questions. We can make them omniscient, knowing everything, even things we don't know and can't know. We can make our gods any thing and any way we like.
And that's exactly what we do. I call that intelligent design.
The first 200 comments appear here under the article. If over 200 comments are posted, click on the "newer" and "newest" links on the Post a Comment page to continue reading the latest comments.
Subscribe to this post's Comments (Atom). Subscribe to every post's Comments (RSS).Quickly catch up on all recent comments posted on ExChristian.Net on the Recent Comments page.
<< Home
We learn also to mimick other members of society, church members, preachers, TV, mostly what we have seen others do. Monkey-See Monkey-Do, our brain can only mimick and repeat what it has seen and heard.
Worse than that: we have been told that the invisible friends of other people are really real.
Worse than that! We have been told that the invisible friends of primitive savages thousands of years ago are really real - and the primitive savages who first dreamed them up didn't even know it!
Hey, let me try. Yep, I was able to project my image on top of an all powerful deity object. I also gave myself ultimate power, so that I could state with the greatest of authority, that ID is the biggest load of bunk I have ever heard.
Carmen, RD and the other religious robots on here just spew the same old shit over and over and make up their own spin to it. I am with South, WM Dave needs to get rid of RD, he is tedious and I am sooo tired of reading his bs over an over.
Great post, Jim Earl, I am in 100% agreement.
Regards, carol
Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief
by
Andrew Newberg, M.D., Eugene D'Aquill, M.D., PhD., and Vince Rause
Being trained to parrot things that we don't fully understand the reasons for,and will NEVER understand the reasons for, being made to fear some sort of eternal retribution for a temporal "sin", training one to believe that it's ok to hate those who don't share those beliefs, is a horrible thing to do to an impressionable child, which is when most of us are originally exposed to religion.
It makes it very hard to think for oneself, when one has been taught that doing so will lead to damnation. Who would've thought that fear of an unprovable retribution would be such a powerful preventative to questioning and gaining knowledge?
That, I think, is the wrong perpetrated by organized religion. Not telling a person about god, not preaching a moral life, but training people to not think, to be terrified lemmings who hate the lemmings who don't march to the same sea.
It always seemed to me that if one is so sure of one's beliefs, then one need not fear a questioning of those beliefs, nor would that questioning shake one's faith.
Everything churches (but not necessarily church-goers) do in re their dogmas indicates that mass doubt threatens their faith, and they don't even seem to realize it.
Forcing something down someone's throat will never make them as true a convert as letting them come to it on their own.
Calling "ANY" Christian, explain "why" God allowed these miners to be killed, and their families made to suffer, Or, does Prayer not "work". I guess the miners, and their spouses weren't "Real Christians", or they just didn't do enough, to merit saving from a slow death, where they suffocate, foam at the mouth, become deaf/blind, and then finally collapse.
Christians, if you believe your god is actually answering your prayers, or if you believe that god is involved in your life, then your god is demented. Keep your god, keep your heaven, and I hope you do enter into the kingdom one day, and the same god is sitting up there ignoring you also, while you undergo some other form of immense pain and suffering.
Oh, and before, a Christian chimes up, and says sin doesn't exist in heaven, may I remind you that Lucifer was one of gods' favorite angels, just before Lucifer sinned in heaven by appealing to his own desires. Which, resulted in his subsequent treatment in the oh, most holy heaven, i.e., Lucifer was bitch slapped, kicked in the ass by an arcangel, twisted and deformed, and sent to this earth, to plague mankind. Its obvious that greed, desire, dishonesty, etc., reside in heaven.
Christianity, sucks.
They will think one of two things, or both, about why this happened:
1. "It is buybul gawd's will." Yup, once a blood thursty murderer, always a blood thursty murderer. What a horrible death they probably suffered, par for gawd's course.
2. "Satan did this." Once again, Satan beats gawd and his gawdiots.
All religions suck, and xianity is the suckiest.
Regards, carol
Sounds like hypocrites to me. And YES Kenny, I believe that those who lashed out afterward towards the people who miscommunicated the information instead of their god might (but I ain't holding my breath) realize that they were wronged by their god or whatever force of nature may be...
I hate to say this and seem uncaring (which isn't the case) but these miners KNEW what kind of work they were doing. They knew the risks involved. They CHOSE to go into the mine. Yes, the accident had probably nothing to do with them, but that doesn't change anything.
As for the families who are going to "sue", they should find a way to sue god. I am sure that would be an interesting case... too bad Johnny Cochrane isn't around to take that case...
I wonder if you think ppl on both sides of the UFO issue are full-of-shit? I wonder if you think because I don't believe in Big Foot that I am full-of-shit? I wonder if because I doubt the existence of Allah that you think I am full-of-shit?
Personally, I don't believe in a god because I have no convincing evidence that one exists.
If I say that there are invisible pink fairies that visit me in my sleep, would you consider yourself full-of-shit for not believing me?
What your brief comment says to me is that those who doubt my pink faires are obligated to provide proof before they should say that my pink faires don't exist!
People who make absolute fantastic claims must provide absolute supporting evidence for those claims before expecting anyone to just blindly believe them.
I require extraordinary proof of this claim; the creation of life by an umplanned process would be the minimal extraordinary proof that I would accept.
As would I require proof, just like I would require proof for intellegent design.
Best case scenario, nobody really knows for sure either way. Guess we will have to continue on formulating, proving, and disproving theories to get to the truth.. If that is even possible.
If you mean by your request for evidence, "The universe and the life it entails is of such complexity so as to merit the assertion of a designer," then I respond to you:
Let's assume "God" indeed created this complex universe. Now, what is _more_ complex: the created or the creator? Of course, the creator.
Thus, if the complexity of the universe is denoted as C(U), and the complexity of God as C(G), then of course we have the relation:
C(G) > C(U)
Now, if C(U) is sufficiently large enough to merit the assertion of a designer (as you insinuate above), then I ask:
Since C(G) is greater (far greater), then is not the existence of this "God" meritorious of the assertion that it, too, has a designer?
WHO DESIGNED GOD?
Thus, you're involved in an infinite regress, because now, to be consistent with your assertion, we need an ever higher "God" (denoted at G2) with this relation:
C(G2) > C(G) > C(U)
Now, by the law of transitivity, since C(G2) > C(U), G2 then requires a designer.
The only difference between a theist and an atheist is we (atheists) stop at the natural universe as the "eternally existing, uncreated thing."
Respectfully,
Salvatore
There have been hoaxes and science does not provide all the answers to life and the universe, therefore God exists.
The Roman Empire "forced" PPL to accept "false" hope, because they weren't thoughtful enough to allow people to have their own beliefs.
Anonymous: "PROVE TO ME THE FAR OUT CLAIM THAT BLIND CHANCE MADE ME WITHOUT ANYTHING THINIKING BEHIND IT."
You can't prove a piece of art is visually beautifeul, to someone who refuses to remove their blindfold.
Moreover, its ridiculous for a person who demands to keep a blindfold over their eyes, to give visual art criticism.
The comments you have made, are totally insincere and basically what you are really saying is... "You can't make me drop my blindfold..."
Personally, I think you are going to get more out of life, by continuing to bump into things and getting bruised, until a point in your life arises, where you are persuaded by your subconscious to raise your blindfold ever so slightly and peek. Once you peek, the light will be painful in the beginning, but if you continue to keep looking earnestly, you will finally see the rest of reality, that you appear to totally be missing.
So, the CEO critics are mad, fine, but the more tragic theme seems to be how these people are still wearing their blindfolds and not able to see reality. If the family members had even slightly lifted their blindfolds, they may have been able to find their way to the company and attempted to lend a hand, instead of sitting in the blindfold factory that teaches people how to read braille, i.e., church... One may argue, that being at the company wouldn't have made any difference as the CEO's wouldn't have let them in due to liability concerns, however, the families would have been on site and able to confirm rumors, as opposed to being duped by some false claim.
These CEO's will not be found liable in a court of law. They may pay a settlement to keep good "faith" in the community, but, if they do, its out of choice, and not because they were acting immorally, or causing undue pain and suffering...
Again, its apparent that the families who were so easily blinded are the same ones who don't have the common sense to "verify" the information they had been given, but... that's how religion works, right... Typical for the self-induced or environmentally blindfolded, to blame others for their Missed Steps in life...
There have been hoaxes and science does not provide all the answers to life and the universe, therefore God exists." <<<
THAT was too funny! I am going to work up a geometric proof to complete yours!
OH YEA BY THE WAY , SINCE WHEN IS A BABY JESUS THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD...(cut)...WE PUT UP WITH ALL KINDS OF SHIT BUT YOU PPL ARE SO THINNED SKINNED A BABY JESUS SENDS U RUNNING AWAY IN FEAR. I PUT UP WITH ALL KINDS OF SHIT I DONT LIKE BECAUSE MY SKINS THICKER AND I BELIEVE IN EVERYONE HAVING A SAY .
Your premise as you have stated it is ridiculous. If anyone is sent cowering by a mythical story of a savior, it's Christians. Isn't that the whole point--to fear God's judgment and to have obligatory faith in Jesus' divinity? I don't see how this applies to the #1 desire for me as a non-believer, which is to stop the encroachment of religious beliefs into government. You should find out what it means to be a non-believer before making such assertions. An important point is that I gave up on believing in magical stories of savior babies and, therefore, have nothing to fear from things which have been relegated in my mind to mythical status.
This is not to say that we have nothing to worry about when it comes to zealous Christians who seek a foothold in our schools and governments. It is not so much the idea of Christianity being duly represented as it is the implicit denial of all other beliefs, including (and most especially) non-belief and atheism, that really pisses me off. Beyond the elitism is an unwavering stubbornness. The striking difference evident in what Christians contend to believe and how Christians act in reality, all the while justifying the ends through their means, is also cause for alarm; in the face of criticism Christians will say and do anything to end up looking as if they'd been right all along, even though the logic transversed in their arguments is often riddled with bottomless pits. Any time spend defending reason against this type of insidious stupidity is time well spent.
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BELIEVING WHAT U FEEL LIKE AND LETTING OTHERS DO THE SAME.
I don't think Paul the Apostle would have put it that delicately.
SHAME ON THE PUSHY CHRISTIANS MUSLIMS AND ATHIEST . YOUR A TRUE THREAT TO FREEDOM EVEN MORE THEN BIN LADEN MAYBE.
I wish I knew where there was a real, organized threat posed by atheists--so I could jump on board! Alas, there is no 'atheist movement' as you seem to believe, Mr. anonymous. Atheists have always been here, even before anybody had heard of Jesus or Mohammed--although they've never been as visible as they are now--and I dare say atheists will always hold nothing more than a persistent minority, due to their disdain for institutions of structured belief. This is to be expected. Besides a lack of belief in gods, the actual beliefs of two atheists may diverge completely. Still the religious majority (yourself included, apparently) seeks to demonize what they perceive as a threat, as they do with all other perceived threats. The word "atheist", the meaning of which you have obvious trouble grasping, has been dragged through the mud so much that it carries demeaning non-theological connotations, all of which are baseless to the rational mind.
I fail to see how the atheists' defenses of reason, respect, and equal representation threaten your freedom in any way, unless you would prefer to live in a theocracy and be afforded all the freedoms that would entail. But perhaps this isn't such a surprise. I'm led to believe from other comments you've made that you're the sort of person who thinks gay marriage somehow makes heterosexual marriage less legitimate. Is this how you respond when every hopeless minority finally gets a voice? For your own sake, maybe you should board yourself into your basement and wait for the world to end, so the atheists and the gays (!!) can get on with their agenda of taking over the world--and so they won't have to listen to you bitch about it.
Maybe you are too dumbed down to realize that if the men want other men, that leaves the door open for you to get more women...BUT! I would like to point out as a woman that I wouldn't have anything to do with a raving loon who has to post everything in CAPITALS to be noticed. Sounds like someone is attempting to compensate his ignorance (or something else) with his "cowardly, anonymous, hate-spewing" rantings...
By the way, my name is Chris...I am NOT hiding behind a false identification...
It's your turn to spew more hate..(I can take it because your words have no relevance in my life)
Bye now little hating coward..
Jim? This requires more than milk...this needs lithium or full on tranquilizers! And rationality? I doubt that you get that from this guy/hatemonger.
Good try though.
"THE POPE, BUSH, NOR U WILL STOP ME FROM SAYING WHAT I PLEASE ANYTIME I FEEL LIKE IT WHEREVER I WANT."
Hey moron, try to post to my Blog, I won't let you.
It is easy to spot your posts with the all caps motif, so I never read anything you write. Now head back to your single-wide and have sex with your sister.
Onanite
http://onanite.blogspot.com/
"BENJI I DONT KNOW IF GOD IS REAL OR NOT BUT I DONT HAVE TO BELIEVE IN GOD TO KNOW A ANUS WASNT MADE TO BE FUCKED . ITS PRETTY CLEAR NATURE OR WHATEVER MADE US DIDNT DESIGN MEN TO HAVE SEX WITH MEN."
Isn't ironic that nature has made it so that it is possible to reproduce without a male and female!
Cloning should not be possible if god or nature intended sex to be the end all to reproduction. Why would nature or a god allow for an alternative to intercourse for the creation of life? Just maybe, all forms of life evolved from asexual reproduction and this has not been completely removed from our genetic makeup, thereby allowing cloning!
Yours truly,
~ South2003~
South Park, Penn and Teller, and John Stewart the hope for mankind. Now that you mention it, I think they just might be!!! It makes sense because they are not afraid to talk about the absurdity of religious superstition, and they do it in a humorous way, to point out that absurdity! Thanks anony, great point you made.
Anony: “Because God created the world in an orderly fashion, there are things that simply happen because of the order it was created in.”
Because god created the world in an orderly fashion, 12 miners are now dead. Is that what you are saying? I think you mean shit happens. I feel sorry for those people too, my father, grandfather, and most of my uncles were miners in WVA, but they also made the decision to choose a dangerous job working underground, and believe me, they and their families all knew the risk. Actually, I think the risk for this kind of accident is much lower now because of the advances in mining technology. (My dad had a pick, and light).
And last of all, I do not know what the hell else you are talking (gettting hysterical) about, because it is hard to understand your real opinion/point. We are not posting comments anywhere but our own website, talking about our opinions on issues in a forum, not standing on a street corner trying to convert everyone to atheism.
Get over it, and get your caps lock off, it's very annoying.
Wow, this site is crawling with mentally ill gawdiots today, isn't it?
Of course, they all spew the same thing and are anonymous. What brave soldiers they are.
I think the writer in all caps has to be an xian, although he denies it(typical xian liar.)He really is hung up and butt fucking, too. Makes me wonder as per the saying, "...he who protests too much.."
Ha, ha, South, you are a true crusader for the innocent anuses(sp?) of the world.
Hey, but I do have to say the orderly world comments to support creationism are new to me. It is "orderly" but we can't have "logic and reason?" Talk about contradiction and just plain nonsense!
Regards, carol
Good to see you.
As Jim Arvo said, you have some serious issues.
One final thing, if you wanted to be here to voice opinions or debate, you didn't show much courtesy and consideration. Btw, you do have the option to give yourself another name besides anonymous, and paragraphs would have been nice too. That's all the time I have for you Mr A.
"BLAH BLAH BLAH ... IM A FAGGOT >>> BLAH BLAH BLAH"
In psychology there is something called "projection."
Projection: Projection is one of the defense mechanisms identified by Freud and still acknowledged today. According to Freud, projection is when someone is threatened by or afraid of their own impulses so they attribute these impulses to someone else. For example, a person in psychoanalysis may insist to the therapist that he knows the therapist wants to rape some women, when in fact the client has these awful feelings to rape the woman.
Hmmmm, I wonder! (snicker)
Onanite
Our nerves automatically respond to soft caresses whether it’s from silk, a feather, a gym rope, or a hand. Sure, these tactile sensations can be pleasurable without being sexual but nerves themselves have no sexual preferences.
For life to propagate, we need to match up the two parts that will bring forth the next generation. Really though, it is unnecessary for all members of every species to hook up this way to ensure the continuation of each species, it only needs to be most.
Heterosexual behavior in nature is only important during mating season. The rest of the time we’re just a bunch of nerves looking for a feather with or without the duck attached to it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
Also, he seems to think he knows how same sex couples have sex. I think he is disclosing more than you think.
My sympathies to the people who have to put up with this garbage.
Would someone please give Mr. Caps lock some Koolaid, ASAP!
ANONYMOUS, DID YOU START THAT CONVERSATION? HUMMMMMMMMMMummm. I WONDER WHY YOU DID...HAR HAR
Onanite, I think your right. Sounds like projection to me too.
This character is a homophobe. Probably not unlike that OKC Southern Baptist Pastor on the other thread.
I mean really, wtf does it hurt if people are gay or lesbian? And what kind of perverted sense of enjoyment is it that these people derive from making life hell for gays and lesbians? Are they really afraid that some homosexual will rape their tight little bottoms?
Get over it! Voting for bans on gay marriage will not stop people from being gay. And it certainly will not stand much longer as it is discriminatory.
As for the homophobic hatemonger, you place yourself in the same company with the fundies. You are no better. Perhaps you are afraid of your own tendancies and you find it as a way to direct the attention away from you. When you point your finger you have three pointing back at you.
Think about this, no matter how hard you try to mask or hide your tendancies, they will eventually surface.
Learn something from that OKC pastor... He was caught in his irony. Perhaps you should STFU while your ahead.
Cheers
Perhaps Aninny is Rev Lonnie?
Cheers
The rescuers gave bum scoop to the CEO's. The CEO's had "faith" in the rescuers and their reporting. I suppose the CEO's "faith" in the experts were misplaced. If the CEO's stuck to the adage, of checking and verifying information personally, i.e., looking at the bodies, then of course that would have solved the entire problem. I wonder if the families would have been any "less" drained of emotion if they didn't get "any" feedback for umpteen hours. CEO's don't get paid to dig up rocks, they get paid to lead teams and processes.
Why aren't the families pissed off at the rescuers for passing erroneous information, and why aren't religious families pissed off at their god who is supposed to give them comfort in a time of need.
Perhaps, CEO's are easier to blame. Its da' Man. (management), trying to keep the people down - right.
Who knows the real story, its possible that the miners were in fact alive when the report came out, but not after three more hours of exposure to carbon monoxide.
If we are going to start suing CEO's for passing information that hasn't been confirmed and validated because they trust their information. Perhaps, we should go a little deeper into the community, and start holding pastors and preachers accountable for the mis-information they present to the community which causes unnecessary pain and suffering. If that were the case, religions wouldn't be able to support themselves, because they would be sued into poverty over-night.
Yup, I must admit that lithium sounds like a much safer bet than the warm milk; maybe even just a teeny lobotomy. But, what the heck. It didn't cost anything to toss out a friendly little suggestion. Who knows, maybe the guy just wants some attention. People do the weirdest stuff to get noticed.
ALL-CAPS-ALL-THE-TIME ANONYMOUS said: "FIRST OFF FUCK TARD I POST IN CAPS SO U WILL KNOW MY ANONYMOUS FROM THE OTHER ONES IDIOT."
Let me toss out a slightly wild suggestion; maybe you could pick a handle other than Anonymous? I know it can be hard to think up a good name, so maybe we can all put our thinking caps on (as my kindergarten teacher used to say) and come up with a name that you could adopt. I'll start it off, and maybe others can pitch in too. I'll bet we can come up with a nice list for you to chose from. Okay, here are some suggestions, off the top of my head:
1) Uptight
2) Frothy
3) NotNoFag
4) My_neck_is_RED
5) RantingRebel
6) QQQQ (pronounced "four Q")
7) NeedToChill
8) HomoErectus
9) Out_of_Lithium
10) MyDicksForChicks
Okay, now you gotta' admit that that would be more fun than the all caps shtick. Come on, admit it.
Take it easy. (Psssst. The "Caps Lock" button is usually located just above the left shift key.)
This looneytoon is beyond help. I wish anony were a hoax, but sadly, I think he is for real. Perhaps he's Rev Pat Robertson, who has once again proven he needs a straight jacket (comments about Ariel Sharon).
cdmon, don't make fun, I have a touchdown jezbus north of my town. He stands 62 ft, and is a lovely site traveling north on I71 to Dayton OH. LOL He is actually called giant jesus, and is on the website roadsideamerica.com, I am soooo proud.
Well I just completed my first week back to work after two weeks, and survived. It only took me a couple of hours to find out my coworkers didn't get common sense for christmas, so I am going to go lookin for a cold brew, I need it bad.
Take it easy,
All posts have been deleted.
How about for starters:
PPL_person
analman
headisuprectus
All I have for now, will check back later, still need that beer.
-RESCUERS gave bad information.
-CEO's passed on bad information.
-RESCUERS informed CEO's they gave bad information & weren't sure.
-CEO's looked at RESCUERS as if they were retarded. Then, decided not to pass on anymore information until there was "solid" evidence for their claims.
-Some people actually believe that CEO's should have kept repeating RESCUER information the entire rollercoaster operation, instead of waiting until "solid" confirmation via hands on body inspections.
Lets see a possible scenario;
-CEO's repeat RESCUER information, and give false hope that everyone is alive.
-CEO's then repeat RESCUER information, and say 11 out of 12 appear dead.
-***Family members are traumatized, and... in a state of psychological trauma, begin to commit suicide...
-CEO's come back, a few hours later, after RESCUERS make it to the bodies and make positive findings, and report that everyone is alive.
Sorry anonymous, the lesson learned here, is not to give the families "any" information until there is "solid", "physical" and "empirical" evidence. The rescuers were the ones who iniated the false hope, and CEO's had "faith" in their information. I guess that proves, that information without "physical" evidence, is not really reliable, kind of like having a belief in an invisible "god".
Don't feel bad... Heading east on I580 over the Altamont Pass in California just east of Livermore, there is a huge jeezus Yoni fish, that screams out "Jezus Saves."
This thing is probably 120 feet long, and only serves to annoy me everytime I drive by it.
I have often plotted a way to write underneath it... "At Bank of America." Haven't done it yet as I'd have to climb over barbed wire fences to get to it.
Cheers
hillbilly, seems to fit him quite well.
But really, RNPOSH if you are straight, what does it matter to you what homosexuals do? It appears it is you that has a problem with it.
It is sad that you can't just live and let live. Besides you don't have to worry, I serious doubt if any self respecting gay person would be interested in bumping fuzzies with you. They'd take a look at your buck teeth and smell your b.o. and chronic halitosis from that copenhagen ya'll have plugged in your lower lip and head for the... city. For that matter I couldn't imagine any female that would be willing to give you the time of day either with your attitude, except perhaps your sister.
Cheers
"BLAH BLAH ... I AM A FAG ... BLAH BLAH etc."
All the poor little guy can do is post about homosexuality. My guess is that is all he thinks about, and then of course having sex with his little sister. From the quality of his writing it appears that there has been a lot of inbreeding in his family history.
His post will be deleted. I wonder if the poor little guy realizes that the webmaster can track his ISP. They might be interested in his "freedom" of expression.
Onanite
Not true. This is a website that is privately owned and operated; thus, you have no rights at all with regard to posting here. If the webmaster chooses to scrub your posts, or block you, he can. End of story.
Now, you most certainly do have the right to start your own web site, and you can say whatever you like on it. See the difference?
Franky, I don't see why you are so fixated on posting here. Nobody cares to hear your rants; they're very repetetive, predictable, and ultimately boring. Is there something that you're getting out of this? Actually, don't bother answering that.
Well, you may say that you aren't religious, however, ignorance is still ignorance, and being illiterate can cause it to continue for years.
"The mining company never released information about the status of the miners, Hatfield said. Instead, the erroneous information was relayed via "stray cell phone conversations," he said, emphasizing that even mining executives were duped by the initial report that 12 miners had survived."
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/04/mine.explosion.wed/
Uh, what do the words "executives were duped by the initial report that 12 miners had survived" mean to you."
So, in actuality when I say, CEO's gave bad information, its more accurate to say, CEO's allowed bad information to continue to reside in the community. Again, they didn't send that information out, at least according to them.
The rescuers, gave bad intel, by not providing the whole story for a long period of time while they were returning with their initial survivor. Still, they didn't make a cell phone call either, or so they claim. So, anonymous, if you have the "name" for that "anonymous" cell phone caller, please by all means, post it, I am sure the families need someone to baste and cook over this one.
Again, the pissing contest is between the families who "somehow" got the cell phone information, and the CEO's who didn't release information fast enough, at least not fast enough for the families.
The "anonymous" cell phone bandit, is the culprit, the RESCUERS, not reporting the "full" story caused miscommunication were also part of the larger issue. If that "cell phone" transmission hadn't been made by "anonymous", then the families wouldn't have experienced false hope. Well, besides the false hope they put in a god to save their spouses.
If you don't like CEO's, fine, if you want to back families so they can sue a company in order to recoup the potential earning wages of their lost spouses, fine. However, its dishonest to sue them by stating that they perpetrated the pain and suffering caused by some "anonymous" caller, and its their prerogative to hold information until they get enough time to make an accurate assessment of the situation.
The company may say, "Without giving a reason for the miscommunication -- and without assigning blame -- mining executive Ben Hatfield said he deeply regrets "allowing the jubilation to go on longer than it should have."
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/04/mine.explosion.wed/
Having "regret" isn't the admission of wrongdoing. These executives have attorneys on retainer, they know the first rule in public relations... don't assign blame, "even" if its founded as it places the company in a position of liability. If the person they blame is found innocent, the mining executives then stand the threat of being sued for slander. This is taught in basic business law, and is exactly why the "command center" executives wouldn't have deliberately leaked information.
Investigations will be conducted, all the evidence will be brought forward, and if the CEO's are found negligent then they will be sued.
So, I wonder what the going price is for continuing to have "false" hope. I mean, if you believe that excitement somehow increases over time, I suppose a scale can be created. I'll break it down for you. Do you believe the "suffering" would be greater for a family to hear their loved one was alive, only to learn "three seconds" later that they were misinformed; or that suffering would be greater for a family member who heard their loved one was alive, only to learn "three hours" later that they were misinformed.
The facts don't change, the family member is still dead. If the family members are suing because they feel guilt for being "happy", while their spouses were dead, then it appears they may never know happiness again, as they will always feel guilt, especially when they remember back to this incident.
I suppose, three second happiness makes one feel less guilty, than three hour happiness. Well, there will be plenty of religious vultures preying on the family survivors, and giving praise to god for the one survivor. The one survivor will probably suffer from "survivors guilt" also, because of the depression of the families who feel guilty.
Actually, if you harassed anyone in public using the same rhetoric and demeanor you are currently using. You stand a good chance at getting charged with harassment.
And, sending you to jail for harassment, is like erasing you from the community. Yep, its like removing a shit-stain in the laundry, it just happens to be a larger organic shit-stain, like you anonymous 1/06/2006 10:20 PM. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh, and censorship does suck, but, no one sucks with the sheer force you can muster. When looking in your family photos, does the movie deliverance immediately pop into your mind. :-) Bwahahahahahahahaha
http://www.destgulch.com/movies/deliver/deliver.wmv
And, here is official music for the anonymous family reunion.
http://www.destgulch.com/movies/deliver/dueling.mid
I have something for you cookie...
http://www.partnersagainsthate.org/about_hate_crimes/faq.html#14
Is there any kind of hate speech on the Internet that is not protected by the First Amendment?
The U.S. Constitution protects Internet speech that is merely critical, annoying, offensive, or demeaning. However, the First Amendment does not provide a shield for libelous speech or copyright infringement, nor does it protect certain speech that threatens or harasses other people. For example, an e-mail or a posting on a Web site that expresses a clear intention or threat by its author to commit an unlawful act against another specific person is likely to be actionable under criminal law. Persistent or pernicious harassment aimed at a specific individual is not protected if it inflicts or intends to inflict emotional or physical harm. To rise to this level, harassment on the Internet would have to consist of a "course of conduct" rather than a single isolated instance. A difficulty in enforcing laws against harassment is the ease of anonymous communication on the Internet. Using a service that provides almost complete anonymity, a bigot may repeatedly e-mail his or her victim without being readily identified.
>>>and then anonymous coward said: AND BY THE WAY IF U FUCK UP MY COMPUTER OR SOMETHING I LL USE THE LAW ON YOUR ASSES HAHAHAHAHAHA. I CAN SAY WHAT I WANT
THIS IS THE INTERNET , AS LONG AS I HAVENT THREATENED ANYONE U CANT DO SHIT .<<<
Wanna bet?
http://www.partnersagainsthate.org/about_hate_crimes/faq.html#11
Can a hate crime be committed with words alone?
The use of bigoted and prejudiced language does not in and of itself violate hate crime laws. This type of offense is frequently classified as a bias incident. However, when words threaten violence, or when bias-motivated graffiti damages or destroys property, hate crime laws may apply.
My thoughts as a paralegal:
Um Sir? Yes, you have committed a hate crime. How you might ask? This is a private website in which you have been asked to cease your rantings. You have chosen to continue your actions by posting your "graffiti" here... Do you wish to continue? Yes, you can have charges brought upon you on the federal level.
And one more thing? Why would anyone want to do anything to your computer? What are you scared of? I think you are paranoid which gives us an upper hand. Tsk tsk on you.