I knew Brian (Eric) and have seen the fruit of his ministry. The problem here is that everyone thinks that Christians are perfect. Unfortunately, even Paul wasn't - look at Romans Chapter 7...

The interesting thing here as I reflect on this is that I could have been in his shoes; we all could. I have been so angry before and wanted to strike and beat up someone (especially in the checkout line at Walmart on Christmas eve LOL).

When I think of that, it makes me realize just how sick and evil we really are and how our sins or evil desires will manifest themselves without the control of the Holy Spirit. Even then, we have to chose to yeild.

Brian did not kill his wife because of his faith, he killed her because of his mis focus and not using his faith.

It reminds me of the person in scripture that GOD himself proclaims "A man after my heart." King David, who commits adultery, gets Bathsheba pregnant, and then murders her husband in an attempt to cover up his crime. It takes Nathan confronting him to finally wake him up....

I think the whole issue here is tragedy... it's a tragedy that Dee Dee is dead (but she is with Jesus), and it's a tragedy that the Church (local and global) will hurt from this. It's a tragedy and the 50 plus teenagers in his ministry are going to be confused, hurt, and need lots of support. And it is a tragedy that his actions are going to destroy the very fabric of what God wants to use him for.

The good news is that Romans 8:1 tells us that God began the work in us and He will continue it until we are completed. If Brian is willing, God can use him in prison as well.

Brian has to pay for his crime and he will pay for the rest of his life or maybe even with his life. Let's pray that God's will is done through this mess and praise Him for He is on the throne!

I would enjoy dialogue on this as it does hit very close to my heart. All opinions are welcome.

refugeguy: Brian did not kill his wife because of his faith, he killed her because of his mis focus and not using his faith."

Interesting... personally, I consider everyone equally Valuable, as I am capable of removing the person from their beliefs... however, religion typically doesn't reciprocate my tolerance most times...

Regarding Eric, and your assertion he had mis-focus of his "faith"... What is "faith"... By common vernacular, its considered allegiance or loyalty to a person or cause... Whether it be secular or religious allegiance or loyalty...

Religious loyalty or allegience is obtained via the Trust a person extends to a religious leader, caregiver, etc., or to the Trust they extend to written texts, thousands of years old... The stronger the "Trust", the stronger the "Conviction", the stronger the "Faith"...

Perhaps Eric was misled by another person to commit this crime... perhaps not, but, since we don't know motive or mortal influence, lets turn to the other supporting pillar for religious "faith", the bible...

In the bible, God pre-meditatedly murdered Jesus, whether he be a seperate entity, or whether God murdered himself via torture... God had a choice, he was all powerful... just as Eric had a choice over a weaker being...

Is it ever right to murder? Do the ends justify the means, when committing atrocities, ever? Whether it be from fable or physical reality?

As humans, we continually Rationalize our decisions... we use our experiential knowledge first, as its the most potent... however, when we are confronted with new experiences, we must draw from past experiences, and attempt to formulate solutions based on similar attributes, and cause affect scenarios... I am not a psychiatrist, however, it seems that when someone receives their "Identity" by religious proxy... A persons starts absorbing and incorporating religious doctrine, etc., as part of their Value system... Once this is done, the 'innate' Values we are born with can indeed shift... For instance, "Life" is good, that's a Value I have, its the top of the list of Values for me, because without "Life", nothing else matters, as I no longer exist... and therefore, I protect life at all cost, and consider the act of "murder" abhorrent...

However, if one were to critically read the bible, they would easily understand that there is much benefit through "Death", for instance... To god, Murdering Jesus was a means to an end, where humanity received a benefit... Your portrayal of David, and how he murdered Uriah by placing him in a position for certain death is also a good example of how one can benefit from murder...

Evolutionary psychologists, have delved into the arena of Murder and what causes someone to commit such acts... their best estimate? Benefit... Whether it be a benefit from primitive needs, to benefits on the higher order thinking end of the spectrum...

The bible and its main character god, and Jesus, together feed into this Murder-Benefit model... I am not going to say, that Eric, reacted primitively or at a higher order thinking level, as I could not possibly know those details... However, I can say, in any case, he acted for his "own" benefit at some psychological level, and the bible in fact, shows... that Murder can indeed be used as a means to justify the ends...

This reinforcement over and over, makes one become less sensitive to the heinous act of murder, in short, one reading the bible over and over, can indeed become desensitized to murder... The ten commandments speak out against this, however, if god can do it, David can do it, and many others, then... Rationalization can occur... especially, if one wants to be "just like god"... the perfect role model...

Its also not very helpful, that the bible teaches that we are all naturally defective either, as future acts can become self-fulfilling prophesies... for instance, I am naturally defective, and sinful, therefore, I can't prevent myself from committing crime - instant Conscious rationalization, and supported by SubConscious self-fulfilling prophesy...

Paul, stole the Jewish TaNaKh (OT), and taught his own oral tradition, while dismissing the oral traditions of the Rabbinical Jews... For every commandment, there is a "justification" for dismissing it, with the caveat, the ends justify the means...

Well, don't want to belabor the point, that religion can indeed influence someone in a negative manner, correlative to the conviction and trust a person extends to the bible as god inspired...

I agree that this is indeed a tragedy... however, one needs to look deeper at the factors that allowed Eric to make his Conscious decision or to react to his SubConscious priming...

Personally, I lived many years conflicted over religious rules, doctrine, etc... in upwards of twenty years, and leaving the contradictions of morality, etc., behind, lifted a collosal weight from my consciousness and subconsciousness, and I was finally able to act naturally, to accept that innate instinct, that "life" has more value than "death", etc., etc...

The main Reason the bible is still being touted as the Divine Word of a SuperNatural Deity, is explained below...

"The Origin of the Doctrine of Biblical Inerrancy

St. Augustine (354-430) was one of the founders of the Roman Catholic Church. He well understood that Christianity was like a house of cards; if the church dared to admit to even a single error in the Bible, who could say there wasn't an error on every page? The resurrection story might then be false and everyone's hopes are in vain. This is what he said:


"The most disastrous consequences must follow upon our believing that anything false is found in the sacred books....If you [even] once admit into such a high sanctuary of authority one false statement, there will not be left a single sentence of those books, which, if appearing to anyone difficult in practice or hard to believe, may not by the same fatal rule be explained away as a statement, in which intentionally, the author declared what was not true." --St. Augustine in Epistula, p. 28."
http://members.aol.com/JAlw/joseph_alward.html

St. Augustine was correct, in that... I finally saw the light, after seeing too many contradictions in the bible, involving morality, family values, injustice, etc... and once I was able to accept "one" contradiction, the remainder of the bible became suspect, to the point, that I read it over and over, picking out the contradictions, and errancy that would not have been placed there by a deity as I had been taught as a child... In short, I found mom and dad putting my presents under the Christmas tree and finally knew, Santa Clause wasn't real...

"Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities" -- Voltaire

This topic is one of many... If you want to do some research, look at Serial Killers, and see how many have religious backgrounds, I believe the last time I checked, 99.9 percent had religious backgrounds... and, they were predominately from the Abrahamic religions, almost to a person... Isn't that odd... or is it...

If you have something you want to talk about, I am sure there are those who are capable of civil discussion... Please don't consider my comments as a personal attack, I do understand the concern you have for Eric, as I have concern for everyone with "life", without religious bigotry clouding the issue... Its a shame, one Death will lead to possible another Death... But, in the bible, the spiritual Death of Adam and Eve, caused the Death of Jesus per the bible... Death cycles, and Value of Death... I haven't dug into thanatology lately, but you may want to do a little research if you have time... take care...

refugeguy - Yes God is certainly the one in charge on this Earth...ha ha he he
Funny how God can find the time to call preachers to scam you loonies out of your money, but he just can't find the time to interveen and keep someone from facing a horrendous death. Since God is in the Heart dealing business, he could have caused Brian to have a Heart attack or a Stroke, but nooo God is just too busy calling more preachers and youth pastors into the ministry. Oh yes Dee Dee is with Jesus now and everything is just fine, and maybe, just maybe God was just useing Brian to convey a hidden message and somehow change the World, which I'm sure will happen, maybe Brain will have his own Tel-evangelistic Broad Cast from his cell room and save millions of souls from prison, who was it Paul, that was in prison....lololol. Lets see surely we can make something positive out of Dee Dee's tragic death, maybe if only one soul gets saved,say Brians, it will all be worth it in the end. Let us not forget that God has a plan for all of us, and according to his Holy will maybe we will all be struck down tragically, by the hands of a preacher or youth minister. What is one persons life worth that one soul may be saved in the outcome? It is not Gods will that anyone should perish, but have everlasting life in the Kingdom of God. God wants and needs our souls to be in Heaven with him. God could not find no other way to get souls into Heaven except through the virgib birth and crucifixion of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It took God,(the
most intelligent being to ever exist) 4000 years to devise the Jesus salvation plan. God created the entire universe in only 6 days, but it took God only 4000 years to come up with the virgin birth Jesus crucifixion (
"self-suicide" / Dave8) plan Holy Rats Ass In Hell

refugeguy,
I think people who spend their lives teaching imaginary things to people, "youths," probably have a practiced capacity to suspend logical thought altogether, even for an instant, long enough to kill a sweet young thing like Dee Dee.

They are kind of like the curators of the popular "Intelligent Design" museums that have sprung up lately, where they fill innocent children's minds full of untrue garbage, because the guy who built it is really in it for the money, and just taking advantage of the gullibility of fundamentalist, and separating them from their cash.

Well everyone has there own religion and faith but every time i read a comment on here it seems that every religion is imperfect but atheist people are perfect i believe in GOD and i know you wonder why in the hell do people do these things i dont know i dont think anyone will but DEEDEE is in a better place with jesus what he did wasnt right but every night i go to bed and pray GOD forgives him but i pray more for his son because hes the one without a mom and a dad that was once so very close to them i pray for SOUTHSIDE ASSEMBLY OF GOD i pray for brian i pray to his son this is so very misforunate and no he didnt do this for his faith he did it because at the time he lacked faith the most and by time he realized what happen it was to late and no one can take it back you can just hope and pray

I knew both Brian & DeeDee - they were such a blessing & comfort to us as youth. You could come to them for anything. The thought of him killing DeeDee is so hard to even imagine when all you can picture is moments from 12 yrs ago. DeeDee was truely one of the nicest & sweetest woman anyone could know. The only thing to do is pray for their son who now has no mother or father and for all of the youth (from church) that most likely looked up to them as I did at one time. I would love to ask him what happened to make him who is now & WHY!

Anonymous: "Well everyone has there own religion and faith but every time i read a comment on here it seems that every religion is imperfect but atheist people are perfect."

Well, not everyone technically speaking is an "Atheist" on this site... and, of course, Brian (Eric), made decisions in his life, based on his state of mind... which of course, was influenced by his religious beliefs... No one is perfect, however, what is "perfect" and "sin" is an entirely different discussion...

As a Naturalist, I don't see the need to define "perfection"... everyone is different and Individually unique... Our laws were created under the premise that "life" is valuable, and to interfere with that civil right is against the law... Brian (Eric), interferred with DeeDee's life, and will be judged according to society... My "faith" resides in me first, as opposed to those of religious "faith" who place their faith in someone else "first", and then themselves... Brian lacked the "faith" in him Self, to prevent his actions, because Brian, was programmed to place his "faith" in someone else first, call it religion, call it Jesus, call it God, etc... Brian, got "lost", and so did his Self-Identity...

If one wants to test that hypothesis, go ask "Brian" who he is... What you will get, is his description of a bunch of actions in his life, that he believes, makes him who he is today, in short, his actions "make" him who he is... What's going to be missing? Brians' mental view of himself, his philosophy in life, what "he" thinks... He will describe himself in "relation" to what he has been taught all his life... i.e., "I am a sinner because I committed murder...", "I am going to hell, because I committed murder..."... Brian will be speaking as someone who is judging himself, based on 'Other' peoples' standards... i.e., he's going to hell...

If Brian hadn't been taught 'hell' existed, like billions of other people throughout history, Brian would not define himself in that manner... However, Brian has religion to thank for his Self-Identity... and inability to think critically because he was given all the answers he ever needed in life... god the coach... jesus the martyred quarterback... and the offensive line plus one water boy, Pontius Pilate who got the ball rolling... its all the answers he ever needed... he just needed someone to tell him what to do in life, and over time... he was no longer capable of making "rational" decisions...

Its what happens, when people stop thinking, and start "hoping" for everything in life, without a plan... No, nobody is perfect, regarding our interaction with our fellow community, however, there are limits... and those limits are easily breached when one losing their anchor in reality...

I was in Brian and DeeDee's Sunday youth years ago. I remember seeing them so perfectly smile at each of us. Secrets can only be held up so long, and the things Brian went through at the church I attended could have reached him to this point. But as someone said, their son needs the most prayer right now. My mom was pregnant with me while DeeDee was pregnant with him, and we grew up together. It's insane how one choice made by his father made him practically an orphan.

Yes my friends PRAYER, Prayer is the answer for everything, lets us pray now. Pray ye always, pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray pray, you dumb stupid BASTARDS.

anonymous: "I was in Brian and DeeDee's Sunday youth years ago. I remember seeing them so perfectly smile at each of us. Secrets can only be held up so long, and the things Brian went through at the church I attended could have reached him to this point."

Everyone is influenced, some more negatively than others, for Brian, he's already taken actions in life that can't be recounted... However, there are children who are currently in religious circles going through the exact same influence as did Brian... One need only ask themselves, if Brian were not in that environment would Brian have been a different person... The philosophical question at hand, is... are people born evil, good, or tabula rosa (blank slate)(Locke)... Personally, I believe people are born "good" (Rosseau), as a child's only instinct is to survive and do as the caregiver requires, a child doesn't have any knowledge, and therefore, no mal-intent... A child that does as they're told, is a "good" child... but of course, "good" is defined by the caregiver, one caregiver may call their child "perfect", but to everyone else in society the child is a rogue...

Point is, if children are born naturally "good", then its obviously the environment that makes them become who they are, until they reach a point of autonomy that allows them to grow beyond what "Other" people "expect" of them... the transition from Co-Dependence to Individuality is not always easy, actually, for many its a severely bumpy road, especially if there isn't someone there to help guide... Psychologists call this "hitting the wall"...

Religion by doctrine, and, from my over twenty year experience in church, present children as "evil"... Why? Because children are first and foremost, Naturally fallen by Sin... They are born with the sins of their ancestors, i.e., Adam and Eve... Its because they are born of "Sin", and evilness, that they are required to be baptised as early as possible, so they don't run the risk of dying without being "saved"... Even after a child is baptised, they are still considered "slaves" to their flesh, as Paul did, and thus, still sinful and evil... However, as long as the child can believe they are "naturally defective" and evil, they can then be taught, that Jesus is the saving grace that will provide for their "salvation", but 'only' if the child acts according to the religious leader(s), religious doctrine, or religious peers...

Brian, and anyone else growing up with strict religious beliefs, are programmed as infants most times, that they... are "worthless", "defective", "sinful", etc... Its part of the formula to bring the children to "Jesus"... Its unfortunate, that Brian, didn't find Self-Worth, Self-Esteem, Self-Identity, becuase it was pre-defined by his religious peers... Its obvious that Brian was not at peace in his life, and peace comes through having an established identity and Self-Esteem...

I think the environment Brian grew up in, should also be judged.... It shouldn't escape the critical inspection, for those who truly want to know the basic foundation for his actions...

anonymous: "But as someone said, their son needs the most prayer right now."

Might I suggest, that if someone actually wants to "help" Brian, that they go down to see him physically, and "show" him support and care... he is the product of programming, even though he may not understand life, and why he is sitting where he does, he will understand compassion... Praying, is "hoping" that "someone else" will give him comfort... I'd bank on the physical visit as having a more "direct" and "immediate" result... but, I suppose it depends on the conviction a person has to the welfare of Brian and his state of being...

anonymous: "My mom was pregnant with me while DeeDee was pregnant with him, and we grew up together."

Who is "him" in that statement... Are you suggesting that Brian is DeeDee's child, whom she married...

anonymous: "It's insane how one choice made by his father made him practically an orphan."

Father, or environment in total... I'm going with the environment, to include the father, however, its apparent he grew up around those who did not know how to guide him in life and bring him to peace... and its even more apparent, that if all anyone is going to do is pray... that he will "continue" to be left alone without physical help... Religion... sucks... People are "Alive", they're not "dead" bodies walking around waiting to be brought home... Typically, the preacher gets the call to "meet" people in their time of need, and not for consolation/compassion, but to make sure they're ready for their maker... the finishing touches of the "walking dead", for the "evil" borne children of the world... Far be it for me, to give my two cents, but... perhaps he needs Physical comfort "Now", and not after he's "Dead"... But, I suppose, Pray, Pray, Pray... is the alternative, and of course easy way out... especially for those who don't want to interfere with the "will" of God... I mean, a perfectly legitimate belief, would be that "God" has influenced Brian to commit the murder to "test" his resolve... and no one should get in the way... I know it seems twisted... well... until someone goes to the jailhouse, and looks at the sign-in log, and they don't see any signatures except from direct family members... if any... and not all that frequently...

I grew up in the same geographical area Brian did, and with much the same cultural "challenges"... I escaped... it appears Brian wasn't as fortunate...

"anonymous: "My mom was pregnant with me while DeeDee was pregnant with him, and we grew up together."

Who is "him" in that statement... Are you suggesting that Brian is DeeDee's child, whom she married..."

No. I was still referring to Brian and DeeDee's son. It was carrying on from the sentence before: "But as someone said, their son needs the most prayer right now."

When I said "him" I was trying to avoid their son's name for privacy reasons since he's still a legal minor.

To the anonymous who wrote"pray pray pray pray etc." I am so sorry that you are so bitter towards those who pray - If you choose not to pray that is more than fine. Everyone has that CHOICE in life, but don't judge a person who simple finds peace & comfort in their religion & prayer.

For the other anonymous who knew Brian & DeeDee thank you for not saying their sons name.

Brian, Dee Dee, and their son are great people: everyone makes mistakes.

as a relative of DeeDee I am discusted by his actions and the support that he is recieving. There is no justifying his actions,programmed or not. He is a 35 year old man and should know right from wrong.It makes me sick to know that he is getting all of this support even though he tried to cover her murder up or better yet the fact that he murdered her in cold blood period.

These people, (the Holier Than Thou Christians) are psychic vampires, they want to suck your common sense out of your mind, so they can infect and control you, with their Jesus mind rot, psycho-babble, if they can convince one other person other than themselves, that the insanity that they are pretending to believe is true, the better they feel about themselves, and say there's mllions that are as stupid and naive and gullible as me, so it must all be true.

Your imaginary God created the
whole universe in just 6 days, including over 125 Billion Galaxies, but he couldn't figure out how to get people's souls into Heaven, then one day after thousands of years, it occurred to God.
Eureka!!!! I've GOT IT! I've GOT IT!!, God shouted loudly!!!!! I'll send an angel to inseminate a virgin girl, and whoever will believe that he is the Christ, will be saved for ever and ever. What took god so long to come up with that stupid idea?
Of course, since your imaginary God is the creator of all things and has the ability to do all things, he could have just eliminated all sin and destroyed Satan and all evil by just snapping his fingers, but he thought the virgin birth Jesus story would be more fun and more believable and he knew there is millions of stupid and ignorant people,that's why a man wrote it, not any god.
Like Noah and the flood, people's hearts were continually wicked, this all powerful God could have changed every one's heart, BUT NO!!! Your imaginary God thought it would be more entertaining for him to watch all the millions of little babies and children and adults and all animals, grasping for their last breath and suffering, of course Noah having been a (just man), showed his appreciation to God after the flood by getting drunk, besides had Noah's Ark landed on Mt. Ararat, all the animals and Noah and his family would have froze to death before they could evacuate all the animals.

Do you really want to pretend that you are worshipping a God more stupid than you?

Do you think that if there really was an all loving and just God, that he would let evil torment and kill his own creations, innocent children and babies burn up in house fires, etc.? Is this the kind of god that you pretend to
worship? Or can you christians even conjure independant thought?

Its' so hard to give up that false hope isn't it? You christians want to believe in the unbelievable, so much, it has become a drug, you cannot shake this drug, the God and Jesus drug, it's the drug of comfort, it's a safe haven to hide one's self in a false religion.

There is no hereafter, why should there be? There was no pre-existance of you. Of course most of you consider yourselves God and one of the same. Why do you fear truth, there's no truth in religion or the bible, to you there is truth, only because you want it to be true. There's not one thing that can be proved true in the bible, not one. Wake up from your mental fantasy and smell the truth. Evil has disquised itsself as religion.

Yeah if you will believe that this rock is a frog, you will have everlasting life. Your eternal destiny depends on what you decide to believe.

So if you happen to pick the wrong religion, you will certainly burn in the Lake of Fire. Of course no one has ever picked the wrong religion, their's is always the right religion.

Religions grant license's to be self-righteous, and bigoted toward others that do not share their same belief's amd dogma's.

Religions serve no purpose except to decieve and control masses of gullible people.

Did a god creat any religion so that he may be worshipped? NO!! a man did.

The Bible is purely man's book of trash, people heard voices and called it from a god. Every person hears voices, it's from the living brain, echoing it's thoughts, self monitoring it's self, most considering it from a God, but after death no more voices and no more god.

Yeah atleast Dee Dee will not have to look at that ugly mug any longer, looks like he's been polishing plenty of knobs. He looks Homo to me.

"Jeny: Like Noah and the flood, people's hearts were continually wicked, this all powerful God could have changed every one's heart, BUT NO!!!"

If he changed everyone's heart he'd be controling them, and if he decided to do that, we'd be no more than robots. He gave us the gift of choice to choose him.

"...he could have just eliminated all sin and destroyed Satan and all evil by just snapping his fingers..."

Yeah he could. But then like I said, we'd all be robots and have no decisions of our own.

Some choice he's given us: "Love me - worship me - obey me! CHOOSE to do this, or I will burn you in horrific agony for all eternity and I won't even let you DIE!"

That kind of love is real scary.

Jeny,
It is so refreshing to read a post from a lady whose "common sense has not been sucked out by psychic vampires." Isn't it nice to be able to ask, who, what, when, why, and not feel guilty about it?

There seem to be plenty of Anonymous's, out there whose common sense has been sucked out!

Anonymous: "Yeah he could. But then like I said, we'd all be robots and have no decisions of our own."

Perhaps that is why many xians sound just like robots, spitting out the same rhetoric we've heard over and over and over and over...
You get the point...

But, from what I've read in the buy bull, it seems to lean more toward predeterminism... Fate, if you will.

Rom 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate..."

Pro 16:4 "The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Eph 1:4, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world..."

Evidently, he has already chosen who will go to heaven with him and who will not. It appears that he knew before the earth was created.

To me that means his mind is made up already. SO here's a little thought.

What does this mean for those who go to church every week, and try to live right? Tough cookies...No matter how much one would attempt to live their life for him, if they are not chosen from the foundations of the earth, they better pack their asbestos pajamas.

This begs the question then, how do you know for sure that you are saved?

You don't... You are merely speculating based upon what others have told you, or by some emotional outpouring you might have had after somebody pursuaded you that something was missing from your life, during an alter call. Really that's not so amazing.

Perhaps I should put this into terms you can understand...

[Organ music plays softly in the background]

Well, I'm here to tell you, that you don't neeeeeed to become a robot to the church. You don't neeeeed to spend 10%+ of your hard earned money supporting some MAN's ministry.

I say be good to yourself and someone you love. Take a much needed vacation, or buy something nice for someone you care about... or if you wish, give it to a worthy cause like aids or cancer research. Why not send a contribution to this website?

Life is too short to let people control your lives and tell you what your morals should be.

Life is to short to allow these people to influence your sex life, or tell you who you can have sex with, and who you cannot have sex with. Can I get an amen brother---

Think for yourself. Don't take what they tell you as gospel, check it out and study it out for yourself. Don't just study the buy bull, study the history of the buy bull and the history of the xian church as well.

In the immortal words of Brian of Nazereth, "Think for yourself, You don't need a messiah."

As I am standing here, I can assure you my friends that you can find joy, peace and love in not being a blind sheep.

The scripture tells you...

Mat 18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Which briefly interpreted means that if you kill your mind and become as a frightened moron then you will live in heaven after you die.

But I say to you now brothers...
Show me the proof. Show me the lawd. Where is he now? Let him appear before us. After all my brothers and sisters... gawd is all powerful, right? This modern world can use a message from the supreme intellectual designer of the universe.

But it is a sad day my friends he has not answered, he has not appeared. He does not want to touch your life, and he doesn't even care enough to prove his exisitance.

He tells you that you must believe but does not give any evidence. He's been gone 2000 years and NO word.

My friends this means one thing and one thing only.... We are on our own. But look on the bright side brothers and sisters, That means we don't have to live in fear of a huge meat axe in the sky poised to decapitate you for your sins, and throw you in fiery furnace.

No when it comes down to it, all we have is ourselves and each other.

Thank you my friends...

And as we Pagans say....

Merry meet, and merry part and merry meet again.

Amen...



Cheers









Mat 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven..."

"Life is too short to let people control your lives and tell you what your morals should be."

For one thing, I make my own decisions and I wont listen to people who tell me I shouldn't have fun. I cuss, a listen to dirty jokes. My heart's in the right place and I know God knows that I love him and would do anything for him. I dont think God would want to sit up there, watching all of this people sitting in boredom.

"Life is to short to allow these people to influence your sex life, or tell you who you can have sex with, and who you cannot have sex with. Can I get an amen brother---"

For another thing, I can control myself. Even if you aren't a christian you should have morals set for yourself. Going out sleeping with whomever will only bring more trouble to the world. AIDS and more children, when there's already many children out there who need homes.

Kael:"For one thing, I make my own decisions and I wont listen to people who tell me I shouldn't have fun. I cuss, a listen to dirty jokes."

That is a good thing. Having a sense of humor is not Ummmmm...
dare I say... ungodly...

I try to put a little humor in my posts to lighten things up a little bit.

Kael: "For another thing, I can control myself. Even if you aren't a christian you should have morals set for yourself."

Being a Pagan we're more into personal ethics. Not far different from morals. I guess you could say we are ammoral, because we do set our own morals.

One of our main ethics is "Do what you will but harm none" This comes from the Wiccan Rede, and though I do not consider myself Wiccan, I still find this a very good ethic to live by.

This ethic ties directly into the law of karma.

Kael: "Going out sleeping with whomever will only bring more trouble to the world. AIDS and more children, when there's already many children out there who need homes."

Think you missed the point of what I was saying. No where did I suggest going out sleeping with whomever.

The point I was trying to make was that the church seems very overly interested in people's sexual behaviors.

They become enthralled in it. They demonize sex. Say, premarital sex, homosexual sex or anything they might consider ungodly (there's that word again).

Is it any wonder we have so much deviant sexual behavior amongst the clergy. Their unhealthy demonization of sex only tends to repress their natural sexual urges.

It eats away at their psyche until they get themselves into a compromising position and then what? They act out upon their urges. The sad part is, that it generally victimizes a child, or someone vulnerable to their advances.

The xian view on sexuality is very unhealthy. Their abstinence only approach is unrealistic, I say we need to educate people and take the shame completely out of it.

Let's not make sex dirty as xians tend to want to do, let's take away the mystery of it. And once again EDUCATE. Make sex not dirty and taboo, and people WILL develop healthier attitudes toward sex and people will make more educated decisions toward their sexuality.

Seems any decent sex education materials are condemned by xians as pornography. (Kind of ironic because the bible contains plenty of sexually explicit verses)

I am convinced that many Fundamentalists are closet case porn viewers, although they would never openly admit it. I find it amusing that they are the very ones who condemn pornography or other sex education materials so adamantly.

Ironically, 45% of all convicted rapists and sexual offenders confess to reading or viewing pornographic materials, but 95% of all convicted rapists and sex offenders claim to have read the bible. Hmmmmmm.....

The Dark Ages are over!!!

Aids and other STD's can be prevented if people are educated on how to NOT catch the virus.

I do agree with you that there are too many children who need homes. But not just homes, they need someone to love them, (and not like the priests do)educate them and bring them up with a realistic world view.

Cheers

I was reading some comments on her husband. I knew nothing of him and I am pretty sure that I know her. I live in Camden County where her family still live. I have not really seen her in years and she would probably not remember me. I remember the first time I saw Dee Dee when she came to Camden County. She rode my school bus and was always really cheerful but quiet in her on way. She never was the type to say really a bad word to anyone or about anyone. She was always a kind person no matter what mood she was in. I use to joke with her all the time and teased her, but it was clean humor more like trying to get to know this new person on our bus. I remember her around school because I could remember the kind of style hair she had. It was different because a lot of the girls here did not have that style yet. She talked with a west coast accent and always was talking like a west coast person. I always wandered what had happened to her. I was thinking about her the other day in normal thinking just wondering if she was still in camden county or if she had moved away. Well, my question was answered. I heard the awfully thing that happened to her and was shocked in the matter in which she died. I knew when she was younger that she was not a christian, but I was glad to hear that she was in church and was serving the lord. I always believe God has a plan from everyone only if they trust in the Lord. Death seems to be a wrong choice to say for someone that was so young but had everything in the world to live for. When Jesus died on the cross, his believers did not know where to go and what to do. They were living in a shadow of doubt on what there next tasks to do. Jesus told them to preach the gospel to all nations and baptitizing them in the name of the father, the son, and holy ghost. In this case, Jesus's death was not a diaster but was a celebration to carry his name to lead people to God. Despite the death of Dee Dee, her death was a bad but her will for her to carry on would be strong. It sounds like Dee Dee would want for us to go out and preach the gospel to everyone. From her death, we can learn that no matter how close we are to someone we should never forget what the meaning of life can bring to others. Therefore, Dee Dee's legacy is like Jesus's plan for all us. Death may be a ending for life on earth, but death cannot stop the resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and the plans we have in Heaven. God Bless Dee Dee and her family. Let her light that shined on us be a example to want to shrive to reach our blessing through Jesus Christ our Lord. HE HAS RISEN AND INDEED HE HAS. God bless and take care.

Long last classmate

trueblue112: "It sounds like Dee Dee would want for us to go out and preach the gospel to everyone. From her death, we can learn that no matter how close we are to someone we should never forget what the meaning of life can bring to others."

Religion didn't seem to help Brian, why would it help anyone else. Dee Dee is dead, because religion prevented Brian from coming to terms in his life, he thought god would take care of everything, and didn't work things out in his past as obvious per the previous posts from others.

If people have problems in their lives, who need to find themselves, religion is not the place to be. Religions tell people who they should be, how they should behave, how they should dress, whether they should attend school dances, whether they should read Harry Potter, and all of the other things in life.

No, if Dee Dee were "still" alive, and was able to see the future, I'd suspect Dee Dee would choose life over death, and would have left religion. For all of the religionists, who seem to think carrying the same fervor is doing mental wonders for people, what was wrong with Dee Dee when she wasn't religious in her earlier life that "made" her start going to church?

Was Dee Dee so bad, and repugnant to you the religious who knew her, that you just couldn't be seen with her, or be her friend. Its obvious she didn't choose to go, out of belief, or she would have believed all her life. She was receiving a benefit from going to church, was it friendship, a husband, social environment, because it sure wasn't anything else she could wrap her physical hands around.

If Dee Dee went to church looking for hope, I think she came out on the losing end by finding "death", to give her a consolation prize of "maybe" she's in heaven is purely someone trying to "make" a good thing out of an obvious bad thing, and with "zero" proof. For all we know, Dee Dee is sitting in hell, because she just wasn't a good enough wife to Brian obviously, I mean, if we want to "guess" about the afterlife, I'm in, lets hypothesize for the next thousand years, where Dee Dee is, and how she's doing with zero evidence.

Yeah, religion for Brian, lets see how that helped. Dee Dee receives Death at the hands of a husband, that was emotionally repressed because religion doesn't allow someone to become who they naturally are, there are "rules". Put someone in a repressed environment for too long, and they are going to mentally blow up, and as seen by the many articles posted on this site, it appears when that happens, anything from sawing off little babies' arms, to child molestation and rape, to murder becomes possible. Yeah, I'm sure that a religiously repressed lifestyle would be exactly what Dee Dee would have wanted for humanity - or Not.

I knew both Brian and DeeDee and from the first moment that I met them, I knew that something was wrong. Brian was and still is an unbalnced person. What is worse is the fact that people are not willing to accept the fact that what Brian did was wrong. Some of you people want to pray for him because he made a "mistake". Breaking someone's neck is not "making a mistake". It is cold blooded murder.
I attended DeeDee's funeral in Savannah at the church she attended. The outpouring of love for her was overwhelming. DeeDee was a tremendous person that did nothing but help people. She was a tremendous role model for young ladies and a great friend for everyone that she came in contact with.
Howeve, I could not believe some of the comments I heard at the reception after the funeral. "Brian probaly had a flashback." "We don't blame Brian, we love him and will pray for him." What the hellis that all about? A "Flashback" to what. I was told that he served in Desert Storm. So did I. I remember things, and I have never wanted to kill anyone, let alone the woman that I married and love. Besides that, he was a freaking helicopter pilot in the Air Force that wasn't even in country.
As far as the "we don't blame him" Well then who the hell do you blame? Do you blame Jesus? Do you blame God? Or was it Satan that made Brian MURDER Dee? None of those are the right answer. Brian Golden Killed his wife DeeDee on his own free will. He did not have a flashback, he was not possessed by the devil, he did not misunderstand his faith. He flat out decided that he wanted to murder DeeDee and he did it.
I hope that he gets what he deserves. He deserves to die a PIANFUL and TORTUROUS DEATH.

Brian had recently been charged and convicted of pandering(soliciting and undercover police officer for sex. He like anyone else is a sinner. This just shows how good Satan is at getting to anyone. We cannot and should not judge him, only our father God can do that. We can only pray and hope to learn from this tragic mistake. We all have our trials and tribulations to deal with, just remember that Jesus is right beside you and all you need to do is ask for his help.

Anonymous said: "Satan is at getting to anyone. We cannot and should not judge him, only our father God can do that."

There ain't no gods, there ain't no devils, satan, the holy spooks and definatelly if jesus every lived he is DEAD and long gone. A dead man can't do a dam thing but remain dead.

The only thing that's left is to take personal responsiblity for you actions. Brian didn't take personal responsiblity for his actions. He did not use his critical thinking skills. Afterall, the religious are told to supress it and if you do wrong, just ask the sky fairy for forgiveness. With such an attitude, where is the self improvement. But of course, you nut fundies will do it again and again until one day, you get caught.

Then his wife DeDe, did she studied day and night on how to be a submissive spouse? I bet she did and it cost her her life - the only one she had.

I wouldn't waste my time. Brian will be judged by those of his peers. I say - Lock him up with a dose of medication!

Speaking about taking personal responsiblities: I have yet to hear the church take the responsiblity and apologise for the inquistion and the witch huntings. How about killing the Aborginals, the Indians, slavery of blacks. You bastards will continue to cover up your mess with this fairytale...it makes me sick!

Anonymous 12/16/2005 8:57 AM: "We can only pray and hope to learn from this tragic mistake."

Lets see, I'll pray... well, I haven't heard any answer from some religious deity, I suppose I'll just try an "learn" on my own...

Perhaps, if Brian had been taught, or learned on his own, he wouldn't have killed someone... However, perhaps, his parents/guardians were too busy praying for him to become educated...

So much prayer, so much wasted time... Brian may not have listened anyway, he was probably praying most of his life also, and therefore, didn't need to "hear" anyone else... prayer, the true vacation get-away, from reality...

As a matter of fact, the church he attended, are more than likely pointing at Brian as the culprit for this crime, without taking one look at "why" Brian ended up in the state he was in... I mean, it obviously couldn't have been religion, the same people who say the know the "truth" about moral living...

Dave8
"Lets see, I'll pray... well, I haven't heard any answer from some religious deity, I suppose I'll just try and "learn" on my own..."

Isn't that the heart and soul of christianity? To learn on my own...

God only helps those who help themselves! Therefore, if you are a no good lazy bastard, chances are that you will be poor and god will not help you even if you worship his ass with extreme fevor.

Then again, if you bust your ass to attain knowledge and wealth, you must give credit to god because he helped you and we all know that without his help this would not have been possible.

This is why so many former addicts are "born again". It is impossible for one to overcome the addiction by themselves, therefore god helped them when they choose to help themselves. And god never helps those who do not try to stop their addiction.

Kind of confusing isn't it?

I beleive in me, myself and I without whom, nothing is possible!

I hate giving credit where credit is not due! lol

Hey Freeman, "I beleive in me, myself and I without whom, nothing is possible!"

AAAMEN... lol Well, its apparent that some of us are more than capable of living a life on our own... It is truly sad, that many people grow up without purpose, and when they finally have to rely on someone in times of trouble, they can't find themselves... and, therefore, they are provided a "borrowed" friend, or someone else to lean on... All of those psychologists who are paid to "guide" people and bring them to an accepted and personal purpose in life, seem to take the easy way out, when they allow an addict, etc., to rely on "old faithful", the jesus crutch... Seems they could do better than that, but, the psychologists many times if asked for their purpose in life are as clueless as their patients... Typically, they thrive on co-dependence to give themselves purpose, i.e., no patients, equals no purpose... The same with religious leaders, no followers, equals no purpose... take care...

I work with the sister of DeeDee and it is ashamed to see what her family has been through. They are all such smart people, how could this happen to them. How could this happen to someone so kind. I guess we'll never understand but God will deal with brians actions.

Wow, I just learned about the tragic death of Dee Dee Golden. I knew the family in the early 1990's to 1997. Brian and Dee Dee were great with the youth. My kids were in their youth group. I babysat their son. They were a sweet couple who wanted to please God. Brian(Eric) was a good teacher and preacher. Dee Dee was so sweet and willing to serve God in the church however she could. I am in shock. While we can't understand how this could happen, it is our duty to pray for Brian, their families, and thier son. The Brian I knew wouldn't be able to forgive himself or live with himself after doing such a thing. He is already in a hell of his own making.
I do blame the Assemblies of God though because they stand on their own doctrine of "touch not MY annointed" and the higher clergy who oversee the individual pastors tend to take the side of the pastor and let them choose to stay or leave when problems arise. They don't defend or protect the congregation. They don't even talk to them and get both sides. Were there signs of a couple in need of help? Probably, but anyone who tries to address a problem with a pastor is condemned and publicly humiliated. Let's take the pastors off of the pedestal and see them as men, imperfect and sinful as the rest of us. While they are to be above reproach, no man can be, and this is almost a recipe for failure at one time or another. It has happened with every pastor I have known as something comes along, too big to handle, and they break down, and expose their own humanity. "Judge not, lest ye be judged!" Life has a way of teaching us hard lessons and humbling us, doesn't it? I too was a leader in the church, in several, but now I wonder if I was a better Christian then, or now when I am not serving in the church, but at home and work.
And when are we being busy bodies and getting into stuff that is none of our busines, and when do we have the right to speak up, or even the "duty" to speak up as in the case of abuse, neglect, victims, and probable endangerment? I don't blame the various church members who may have seen signs but didn't get involved. They would have been told to mind their own business anyways. Most victims are in denial themselves, and can't be helped until they admit that there is a problem. In this case, both Brian and Dee Dee were victims, and neither received help in time because they denied the problem and didn't seek help. They probably felt that they had to keep up the image that was expected of them as leaders of the church. We must find a way of letting our pastors and their families get help without public disgrace. We, the church. need to find a way to help them as we expect them to help us. But I still say it starts by taking them off the pedestal.Yes, this is a horrible thing that has happened, but the fact that they were in the ministry shouldn't make it any more or less horrible than if he was a mechanic, factory worker, or street sweeper. A family died that night.

link

Savannah Youth Pastor Sentenced to Life in Wife's Death

SAVANNAH, GA -- A Savannah youth pastor has been sentenced to life in prison after pleading guilty to killing his wife. The negotiated agreement that Eric Brian Golden reached with the Chatham County District Attorney's Office means that a concealment of death charge was dropped in exchange for the admission to a charge of murder in the death of 35-year-old DeeDee Marie Golden.

Superior Court Chief Judge Perry Brannen Junior handed down the sentence of life in prison yesterday -- the only sentence available.

Police say the couple had been high school sweethearts and had married at age 18. They say the two had been having problems when Golden attacked his wife at their home on the night of November 17th, 2005, after his wife demanded that he attend counseling.

The year before, Golden had been arrested after police say he offered an undercover detective 20 dollars for oral sex at the Savannah Motor Lodge. Police later found pornographic photos on his home computer. Authorities say Golden's wife had talked about ending their marriage of 17 years.

Authorities say the 36-year-old Golden was concerned that he might lose his job as youth minister at the Assembly of God, a Pentecostal church that requires its ministers to remain married.

Court records show Golden -- a former U-S Army sergeant -- attacked his wife and killed her. An autopsy showed blunt force trauma to her neck and showed signs of asphyxiation as if she had been choked.

Authorities say Golden then drove his wife's body about 500 feet over the Bryan County line onto Fort Stewart property and walked half a mile off the road into woods to bury her.

He later handed a confession letter to deputies.

I knew Pastor Brian and Miss DeeDee. They were my youth pastors for two years. Under their leadership we went from just a few teens to over 75 kids. We had a live worship band, huge drama team; we took a missions trip to help build a church. They were nicknamed "Peanut Butter and Jelly." He wrote me letters from jail at the beginning. I don't know what to think about who he is anymore. True, he is a convicted murderer; the way I see it, this Eric Brian Golden guy not only murdered Miss DeeDee, he murdered Pastor Brian. As a student very close to both of them, I mourn the loss of both of them. I try to hang onto the lessons they taught; one thing PB always said that stands out to me still, is the three things that make your day complete: Prayer, Bible study, and worship. He taught me how to worship God outside of a worship service at church. He couldn't carry a tune but he sang with all of his might to praise our Lord. That was my youth pastor; not this guy sitting in jail.
DeeDee taught us how to laugh when all the dumb high school things happen that would make a normal girl cry. She taught us like daughters; but loved us like sisters. She cried with us when things went crappy. She taught us how to treat each other, how to love each other, how to build each other up. It breaks my heart what happened and how it brought to light the fact that my beloved Pastor Brian no longer exists. And his beautiful wife can't teach any more life lessons. Makes me think...if I remember everything she taught me, is it enough? Or did she still have more teaching in her? I can only imagine how terrifying it was; to know you're dying at the hands of the one person you're supposed to trust more than anything in the world. But, now she's with Jesus. She understands what happened and I believe she's forgiven Pastor Brian. We can't understand. We're not there yet. To her family: as dear as she was, and not related to me by blood, I cannot fathom your pain. I pray for you every day.
Who cares why he killed her? Who cares what anyone has to say about it? Who cares what you think about God and faith? What is the point of posting things that will only hurt more deeply the ones that have already been hurt more than you can ever begin to imagine. Encourage one another! This is a wake-up call to love more deeply and treasure more dearly and protect more fiercely every single relationship you have.
I love you Miss DeeDee. Thank you for everything.

What is wrong with you people?! This monster killed his wife wiether what relgion he is ,he did it and that will never change !Allthough you people sit here for months screaming about one anothers belief in religion ! Have you ever thought that maybe the Bible is just a shame to get you to abide by mans rules or so called Strength!Have you ever thought that Jesus was a phrophet who was misheard !Have you ever thought that there may not be anything after death! Have you ,of course you havent you have been to concerned about what someone or something will abide down apon you!

Brian Golden was no more than a liar, a cheat, and a murderer. He lied to the people around him about himself (don't forget he was caught trying to pay for sex, what makes you think this was the first time), he cheated on his wife (he was sleeping with a 16 year old youth member - which makes him a sexual predator), and he killed his wife. Why would you believe or hang onto anything he said or did.