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encouraging ex-Christians
News of interest to former Christians
KLAMATH FALLS, Ore. (AP) — A disabled woman who says she had sex with a pastor has filed a $1 million lawsuit against the pastor and the church that used to employ him.
Barbara Jo Stacey filed the suit in Lane County last week. It names Roger Stevens of Klamath Falls and BBC Ministries.
According to the suit, Stacey, at age 18, joined a college group at BBC Ministries, where Stevens was a pastor. A year later, on Nov. 20, 2000, she was involved in a car accident that hurt her physically and mentally.
Stacey went to her parents' home in Eastern Oregon before deciding to move into Stevens' home. The pastor handled Stacey's daily care, administering medications and dealing with her financial affairs.
The suit says he used that counseling relationship to induce her to into sexual acts that took in the home, at BBC Ministries, and other locations from the summer of 2001 to September 2003.
The suit alleges that the church was negligent because it either knew or should have known that Stevens "had engaged in inappropriate intimate contact" with other young women and was engaging in such contact with Stacey.
Stacey seeks up to $50,000 for economic damages and up to $1 million for punitive damages.
Gary Turner of Ashland, Stevens' lawyer, said his client denies the allegations. Turner said he'd looked at a law enforcement report and did not "find independent evidence to support her claims. There's substantial evidence discrediting her claims."
Klamath County District Attorney Ed Caleb said the sheriff's office investigated the case, but "determined the case couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court."
Ben Brown, the senior pastor BBC, formerly known as Bible Baptist Church, said the church would have a statement after he consults with its board of directors.
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Barbara Jo Stacey filed the suit in Lane County last week. It names Roger Stevens of Klamath Falls and BBC Ministries.
According to the suit, Stacey, at age 18, joined a college group at BBC Ministries, where Stevens was a pastor. A year later, on Nov. 20, 2000, she was involved in a car accident that hurt her physically and mentally.
Stacey went to her parents' home in Eastern Oregon before deciding to move into Stevens' home. The pastor handled Stacey's daily care, administering medications and dealing with her financial affairs.
The suit says he used that counseling relationship to induce her to into sexual acts that took in the home, at BBC Ministries, and other locations from the summer of 2001 to September 2003.
The suit alleges that the church was negligent because it either knew or should have known that Stevens "had engaged in inappropriate intimate contact" with other young women and was engaging in such contact with Stacey.
Stacey seeks up to $50,000 for economic damages and up to $1 million for punitive damages.
Gary Turner of Ashland, Stevens' lawyer, said his client denies the allegations. Turner said he'd looked at a law enforcement report and did not "find independent evidence to support her claims. There's substantial evidence discrediting her claims."
Klamath County District Attorney Ed Caleb said the sheriff's office investigated the case, but "determined the case couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court."
Ben Brown, the senior pastor BBC, formerly known as Bible Baptist Church, said the church would have a statement after he consults with its board of directors.
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HE IS INNOCENT.!!!!
Can you prove that it nothing ever happened?
Can you even provide evidence for it?
That's what I thought. Unless you are actually Pastor Rogers penis, I think your opinion in this counts for less than nothing.
God is gay, and so are you.
if rog is so innocent tell me what he is doing creating a myspace.com profile @ 12:05AM. Maybe he is looking for someone else to have as a DAUGHTER - to be very clear - when men sexually assualt their daughters it is then called incest!
Actually it is NOT a fact that 80% left. I am still at BBC and that was a huge exaggeration.
Right, your GOD took care of Stacey and the senior pastor, obviously, Roger was betrayed by GOD and was a lamb led to the slaughter if he was innocent. So, did GOD abandon Roger in his time of need, or was Roger guilty?
Ah, lets see how imaginatively Bruner is going to explain the obvious contradiction. Perhaps, GOD is testing Roger, yeah that's it, well, in that case Bruner, its our job then to make sure he's properly led to the slaughter that his GOD prepared him for. I mean, no one should deny your GOD's obvious guidance in this manner. Therefore, burn the culprit to the stake, it was good a few hundred years ago with the bible, lets bring back the good ol' days, yeeaaaaaa!
I would have though Dutch Brothers would have bought them out by now. The parking lot looks packed, although I don't go there and never have. Either way, A church is like a piece of meat, you have to cut the fat away to get the best overall steak.
You, Bruner, are a large piece of grizzlied old fat. Are you sane?
Roger is as guilty as Pee Wee Herman in an adult movie theatre.
Peace.
Then join us in our mission...
Roger & Gwyn Stevens, CEO’s
Caring & Encouraging Others
Wonder how it feels to be CEO's of the Titanic?
www.heraldandnews.com June 27, 2006
It must be someone elses fault, yahdayadahyadah...............
What a false and fake pastor, this is the kind of guy that gives all Christians a terrible name
Revelation 21:8 "All liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."
1 Corinthians 7:1 "It is good for a man not to touch a woman."
How can he explain why there is Roger-sperm on the carpets of his office and guest rooms of his house?
ps. all the reports found him INNOCENT! God will provide judgement and punishment. until then all we can do is pray for those of you who can't see past your senior pastor's sphincter.
>>>>>Ya gotta love an anonymous letter writer. those are the chicken sh*&s of the world.
Chicken Shots? Chicken Shats? Chicken Shuts? Chicken Shets? What are you trying to say Bruner?
>>>>>>If you are so knowledgeable then put your name to it. stand up for what you believe in.
OK. My name is Earl. Earl Hickey.
>>>>>>ps. all the reports found him INNOCENT!
True, sorta. They couldn't PROVE he committed RAPE. But they did NOT find him innocent. Innocent men don't settle lawsuits. They fight for what is right.
>>>>>>>>>God will provide judgement and punishment. until then all we can do is pray for those of you who can't see past your senior pastor's sphincter.
Pastor Kevin? Or are you living in the past about the former senior pastor? Is that how you spell sphincter?
Good word, if this was the year 1685.
God Bless Pastor Kevin, he is a wonderful man. Insurance companies (Brotherhood Insurance) refuse trials. Insurance companies settle trials against the wishes of the said accused. That is our justice system. True justice will prevail. What kind of person sues the very church that she attends? May God Bless your life and bring forth the truth in your words. As a believer in Jesus and his sacrifice, I will no longer linger on this site that so disqustingly abhors the Lord. I only wanted to stand up for the innocent back in January when I first found this site, which unfairly accused him. We know the truth and are willing to put our REAL name to what we believe in. God Bless you always and may you find peace in your anger and cruelness.
The kind of person who gets repeatedly molested by a pastor there.
1 Corinthians 6:1 "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?"
Your truth, is based solely on what you and a select number of your congregation believe.
"God Bless you always and may you find peace in your anger and cruelness."
1 Corinthians 6:12 "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
The devout religious per biblical scripture, are separatists, some more passive than others. Its the belief that a church should have its own authority to impose justice instead of the nation.
Those who turn to a nation's laws, are ridiculed and labeled as disloyal to the cause of the religion. The best justice is one in which an unbiased party makes judgement based on the case, taking into consideration the nation's laws, as they represent the "whole" of the nation, in which that "religious" group exists.
Separatists in any form, who take legal actions internally unto themselves, are the ones capable of producing the most cruel actions imaginable. Separatists are a power unto themselves, and some, have books written to give specific guidance to that cause.
Technically no one is ever found to be "innocent" in our legal system. People are found to be "guilty" or "not guilty." In other words, someone is accused of a criminal act. The trial determines whether that person committed that act or not. People are considered innocent until proven guilty, but the court does not have the option to declare them innocent, only "guilty" or "not guilty."
Sorry for the interruption. Back to our regularly scheduled program...
Just curious.
JUSTICE ACCOMPLISHED IN ABUSE CASE
(Klamath Falls, Oregon) - Barbara Jo Stacey has settled her lawsuit against Associate Pastor Roger Stevens and Bible Baptist Church (BBC) Ministries. In the lawsuit, Ms. Stacey, a student at the Oregon Institute of Technology, alleged that Mr. Stevens used his position as pastor and counselor to initiate inappropriate sexual relations with her, as she recovered from serious injuries suffered in a motor vehicle collision.
Ms. Stacey had become a member of the college group at BBC Ministries while Stevens was the pastor. In November 2000, Ms. Stacey was severely injured in a car crash. In May of the next year, Stevens invited her to stay in his home during her difficult recovery. According to Ms. Stacey's attorney, Derek Johnson of Johnson, Clifton, Larson and Schaller in Eugene Oregon, Mr. Stevens immediately began preying on Ms. Stacey under the guise of providing her spiritual and emotional counseling: "Barbara Jo was incredibly vulnerable, with head injuries and extensive orthopedic injuries. Roger Stevens took advantage of her vulnerability and used his position of trust for his own sexual gratification. It took a lot of courage for Barbara Jo to come forward. Ultimately, she felt his behavior needed to be uncovered, so that he could not victimize others."
Ms.Stacey’s injuries from the car accident that led to Stevens' victimizing her included: traumatic brain injury, right scalp and ear lacerations, a fractured pelvis, bilateral pneumothorax, fractured vertebrae, multiple broken ribs, a ruptured right kidney, and dislocation of her right hip. In a police investigation of the incidents, Roger Stevens had described Ms. Stacey of having a mental capacity of 2 to 3 out of 10 and a physical capacity of 1 out of 10. It was this severely injured woman upon whom Mr.Stevens preyed.
The lawsuit was filed on August 5, 2005 in Lane County. After extensive discussions between the parties, and a mediation presided over by retired judge Mitch Karaman, the parties reached a settlement. After the case was dismissed from the courts, Barbara Jo Stacey said: "I am glad to put this episode behind me. And if by standing up for justice I have prevented even one other vulnerable young woman from feeling the hurt that I did, it will all be worth it."
Well to answer that with another question, what kind of man sues the church he was fired from (for the sexual sins he admitted to members of the staff) for a few thousand dollars of back pay, saying he was owed vacation comp money, even though he led the klamath basin in vacation days.
Did he have his lawyers write up letters saying the church needed to pay or he would sue, yep. He sure did.
Glass houses Roger, glass houses.
By CHRIS DOUCETTE, TORONTO SUN
A TORONTO pastor is behind bars facing allegations that he forced sex on a young woman and later threatened to kill her and the treasurer of his small church.
Frank Seeko Lawrence, 56, founder and current pastor of the Toronto Mount Zion Revival Church of the Apostles, was arrested at his home in the city Saturday afternoon.
"The main complainant is a lady that alleges (Lawrence) forced her to have sex with him," Det. Glenn Emond said yesterday of the sordid case, in which Lawrence is charged with one count of sexual assault and two of threatening death.
He said the 26-year-old woman claims she was befriended by the pastor in the spring of 2003 and that he allowed her to move into his home for a few months and then forced her to "perform sexual acts," which resulted in her getting pregnant.
By Frank Schall
Klamath Courier Managing Editor
KLAMATH FALLS -Defrocked pastor Roger Stevens has changed his mind again.
When allegations of sexual misconduct were lodged against him in 2004, he freely admitted, in a letter to the leaders of his church, BBC Ministries in Klamath Falls, that he had “crossed the line,” and that “my actions have brought reproach to my family, to the pastoral staff and leadership team and the community of believers.
“I became blinded and misguided in my intended purpose of affection; compassion; protection and love. This resulted in choices that left the person feeling wounded instead of loved.”
At the time Stevens had attained the rank of associate pastor after nearly two decades of service to the Klamath Falls church.
The 14 member Board of Deacons at the congregation first relieved him of his duties, then subsequently defrocked him and terminated him from membership in the church.
The vote was unanimous.
According to church records, Stevens was only held accountable for actions he had “personally acknowledged and admitted.”
The records contain a list of things Stevens admitted to, including giving massages, for well over a year, to a young girl staying at his home, some of them taking place in the privacy of the young lady’s bedroom with only the girl and Stevens present.
He admitted that the massages were “up to four times a week” for more than a year, and included fully massaging the buttocks area of the young lady.
Stevens changed his story when he was interviewed by Detective Monty Holloway of the Klamath County Sheriff’s Department.
According to investigative documents obtained from the county sheriff’s department, Stevens told police he had massaged the woman’s back only “four or five times,” and he denied ever telling the BBC board he had given the young lady massages four nights a week.
On May 25, 2004, Stevens admitted to the BBC Deacons that he had stayed alone in hotel rooms with the young woman, then changed his story again a few days later saying that in fact there was another young woman in the room on one occasion.
According to the BBC records, Stevens indicated he normally slept on a separate bed, but, “on one occasion did fall asleep on the same bed while watching TV with the girls.”
His story changed again when he was interviewed by police in August. telling investigator Holloway that the young lady was never in the same bed with him.
In another flip-flop, church records state that Stevens told medical staff, at appointments he accompanied her to, that he was her father, and therefore stayed in the exam room and saw her “body” disrobed. “The context indicated naked, full body view,” according to the document.
He told the board that this had occurred at least “200 times.”
Stevens then told the police investigator that he had indeed lied to physicians about being the woman’s father, but his accuser had never been completely disrobed.
During the month of June 2004, upon the recommendation of the BBC board, Stevens met with a Christian counselor, and again his story changed.
According to church documents the report of the counselor was discussed at a board meeting that included “all the deacons who had heard Roger’s (Stevens) confessions of May 27.”
The report included only what Stevens had disclosed during numerous sessions with the counselor and contained two recommendations.
“In the counselor’s report it became apparent that what Roger told the counselor and what Roger had confessed to the board were not the same....the conclusion of the board was that Roger now had a fourth problem, in that he had minimized the accounts of his previously clearly confessed sins and was now caught by the board in the sins of misrepresentation and lying.”
The first recommendation of counselor David Abraham recommended that Stevens, “be evaluated by a professional counselor whose expertise is with sexual offenders,” and that the young lady who had accused him of sexual misconduct “be evaluated by a professional counselor whose expertise is with sexual abuse victims.”
In his second recommendation Abraham expressed concern that a college-age girl was living at the Stevens home, and asked if the board had considered the safety of the young lady and the propriety of the living arrangement.
In Holloway’s investigative narrative, he notes that the report was “lengthy,” and its conclusion was that “Stevens probably used poor judgement in some areas but (Abraham’s) believed Stevens story to be truthful.”
Other allegations, including suspicion of misuse of church credit cards and funds, were not a part of the reason for his dismissal from his pastoral duties and church membership.
The Klamath Courier has learned that the investigation into the misuse of church funds is ongoing.
The BBC board dismissed Stevens for “cause” on August 26, 2004.
The criminal investigation was completed a few months later and Klamath County District Attorney Ed Caleb personally sent the young woman who had made the allegations against Stevens a letter in January 2005, stating in part that the legal conclusion of his office was criminal charges against Stevens could not be proven “beyond a reasonable doubt,” in a court of law.
Caleb offered the young woman the continued use of services at the county Victim’s Assistance Office, and stated that “our primary goal was to protect your right as a victim.”
Caleb also sought a second opinion from Deschutes County District Attorney Michael Dugan, and noted that his office had come to the same conclusion: the State could not prove “forcible compulsion,” as defined by State law.
Dugan wrote to Caleb that he had reviewed the evidence with his personal crimes team leader, Kandy Gies.
“Both Kandy and I hope that Ms. Stacey has retained a civil attorney and would encourage her to move forward along those lines,” wrote Dugan. “We believe that the episodes of abuse that she reported are horrible and hope that Mr. Stevens will be held accountable for those acts in a civil court.”
Caleb forwarded the young woman a copy of Dugan’s letter.
____________
The long nightmare that has haunted Barbara Jo Stacey for the past few years was supposed to be over.
She recently settled her lawsuit against Stevens and the church.
She had filed a civil suit last year, alleging Stevens used his position as pastor and counselor to initiate inappropriate sexual relations with her for over two years, as she was recovering from the near fatal injuries she had suffered in a traffic horrendous traffic accident in November of 2000.
Since that time she has endured seven surgeries, a cancer scare, and the scorn of former friends who now support Stevens and his new ministry at another church in Klamath Falls.
When the former Forest Service firefighter was first injured she had to take massive amounts of pain killing drugs as well as anti-depressant medication.
In addition to accusing Stevens of sexual abuse, Stacey contended he also helped himself to her prescription pain killers.
According to a press release from her Eugene attorney, Derek Johnson. Stevens invited the severely injured woman to stay in his home during her difficult recovery.
“Mr. Stevens immediately began preying on Ms. Stacey under the guise of providing her spiritual counseling. Barbara Jo was incredibly vulnerable, with head injuries and extensive orthopedic injuries.
“Roger Stevens took advantage of her vulnerability and used his position of trust for his own sexual gratification. It took a lot of courage for Barbara Jo to come forward. Ultimately, she felt his behavior needed to be uncovered, so that he could not victimize others.”
After the Herald and News printed a front page story in its June 27, issue, primarily a rewrite of the Johnson press release, Stevens is now claiming he is a victim, not a sexual predator.
Two days after printing the settlement story, the Herald and News printed a letter to the editor from Stevens, under the headline “Allegations untrue.”
In his letter Stevens claims to have passed a polygraph test and in the same sentence claims to have cooperated fully with the district attorney who “conducted an investigation.”
He also states that the district attorney found no evidence to support the claims made against him.
Stevens did take a lie detector test, but in an email from Caleb in December 2004 to now-former BBC Sr. Pastor, Dr. Ben Brown, the district attorney is quoted as saying, “....the results were in question because of the manner in which this test was administered.”
In a telephone interview with the Klamath Courier July 1, Stevens had “no comment” when asked about the lie detector test.
The Courier asked Stevens why he wrote the letter to the Herald, “They were off-base to even bring it up (the settlement)”, he said. “It’s old news, it happened two and a half months ago. It’s yellow journalism by the Herald and News, and you can quote me on that.
“I’m not making any more statements. I’m moving on.”
A recent internet search uncovered Stevens’ page on MySpace.com, a notorious website monitored by law enforcement agencies throughout the world to try to keep tabs on those who prey on unsuspecting youth.
His webpage notes that he is a 53-year old male from Klamath Falls and his zodiac sign is Tarus.
Although he is married, he lists his status as single.
____________
Barbara Jo Stacey is at home with friends in Klamath Falls, slowly recovering from her latest surgery that took place seven weeks ago.
She spends much of her day in a wheelchair, and hopes and prays that the nightmares of the past few years will finally go away.
“I’m very glad this is over,” she tearfully told the Courier. “ When I went into the settlement mediation I would have taken one dollar.”
After less than two hours of mediation a settlement was reached.
“ We could have haggled further,” she said, “but I didn’t want to give him one more minute of my life. I want him out of my life.
“Roger will never be able to hurt anyone in BBC ministries, ever again.”
Her good friend Alice Casebeer told the Courier, “Barbara Jo is not a victim. She’s a survivor.”
One of the allegations against Stevens in the police reports was that he allegedly told Stacey after sexually abusing her, “what happens in the dark, stays in the dark.”
Stacey hopes that the light will now take away the threat of darkness. “If by standing up for justice I have prevented even one other vulnerable young woman from feeling the hurt that I did, it will all be worth it.”
Notwithstanding his confessions to the BBC church at the outset of the allegations against him, Stevens has denied all charges.
Please send articles like that to me instead of posting them as comments. Also, please include the link to the website where the story is already on the Internet.
Thanks.
Response: Isn't Senior Pastor Carpathia selling off some of his car collection to do this, or taking out additional mortgages on his palatial home at the Running Y Ranch?
ANONYMOUS SAID: Roger is as guilty as Pee Wee Herman in an adult movie theatre. **
Response 2: Interesting comment regarding guilt. Tell us, does BBC still have a local convicted sex offender active in the music ministry?
I doubt that will ever happen, but God works miracles.
Ben, why don't you just sign your name?
John C
Former College Minister of BBC
Last time I checked in the United States a man was innocent until proven guilty. Too bad last week’s article and Ben Brown can’t take that into account. Since we base people’s innocence on facts, not allegations, let’s take the time to look at several.
FACT #1: Witnesses are important. Barbara Jo Stacey doesn’t have a single eye-witness to support anything she has ever claimed. I know; I’ve read the DA’s report. She makes many detailed allegations. But how are we supposed to know if they’re true. Without any witness, you have to take her at her word. Even the Bible says there has to be at least two witnesses. (see Deuteronomy 19:15 and Matthew 18:16)
FACT #2: Witnesses are still important. Roger has many. He has made statements regarding the things that took place that directly contradict Barbara Jo Stacey’s claims. He has multiple eye-witnesses who can verify his truthfulness. First, we have his wife. No one from BBC ministries has ever personally contacted and asked her opinion on what happened in her home while Stacey lived there. She supports Roger 100%. Second, there are several young women Roger and Gwyn have cared for in recent years, and all of them have vouched for Roger’s innocence. None of them ever felt threatened by Roger’s behavior, not even the two who were previous victims of sex abuse before entering the Steven’s home. Third, my wife and I were both eye-witnesses to how the Steven’s family cared for Barbara Jo. At no time did we ever see Roger do anything of the perverted nature alleged. We were in their home frequently during this entire time, often times unannounced.
FACT #3: Barbara Jo Stacey suffered extreme physical, emotional and mental damage in the car accident she endured in 2000. It’s true. We frequented the Steven’s home while Barbara Jo was in their care. She was in so much pain that she would cringe and cry-out when you hugged her or brushed up against her. She spent a large portion of her time in a fetal position on their couch. Barbara Jo had suffered from a broken pelvis and had problems with her sciatic nerve.
FACT #4: A woman suffering from severe physical pain and a broken pelvis doesn’t have sexual intercourse at all, let alone frequently. It’s physically impossible for the things she claims to have done with Roger to have taken place do the extreme amounts of pain she readily admits she has endured.
FACT #5: Roger has never changed his story with me. I’ve been in contact with Roger from the very beginning. I have asked him very direct and relevant questions repeatedly. In that time, his story has remained consistent.
FACT #6: Roger Stevens has a history of caring for others, not taking advantage of them. For Roger to have done the things Barbara Jo claims, he would have to be one of the most selfish, abusive people on the face of the earth. Remember, she’s claiming Roger frequently sexually molested her while she was enduring intolerable, daily pain. For Roger to commit an act that heinous, he would have to have a prior record of perverted, sinister behavior. Roger’s not perfect, but I can honestly say that I have never seen Roger intentionally take advantage of someone in the eight years I’ve known him.
FACT #7: We have an effective DA in Klamath County who takes a hard line on sex offenders. If he thought there was enough evidence to support Barbara Jo’s claims then the case would have gone to court. Instead, they weren’t able to prove anything she alleged.
FACT #8: Roger Stevens took a polygraph test. The test asked very relevant, difficult questions. It verified Roger's side of the story.
FACT #9: The forensic report found no incriminating evidence against Roger. I know. I’ve seen it.
FACT #10: The counselor that Roger spent time with specialized in sex abuse. Ben Brown highly recommended this man publicly during a board meeting I attended. Here's an excerpt from the evalutaion he gave to Ben Brown and the board at BBC.
"...I want to commend the board for taking her allegations seriously...Please know that if I were to error in a direction, it would be in favor of the abused. I take very seriously the responsibility of not allowing sexual deviants to carry out their evil ways." He then went on to say later in the report, "In the 18 hours that I have spent talking with Roger, he has never contradicted himself. I have given him more than ample opportunity to do so. His story has remained consistent. Having been a counselor for over 18 years, I do have the experience to know how to let people maneuver themselves into a corner...If Roger is lying to me, he is the best that I have ever seen, and I do not believe that Roger has the capabilities to do that. Those who know him, know that he is just simple Roger. He lives and works from his heart. He does not have the ability to fabricate the story that he is telling. He has not spoken in a belittling way of others, even though others have spoken in a belittling way about him...I have told Roger that I think that some of what he did was very naive. I also believe that some of the things he has done were very unwise. I have even said that some of this was stupid. With that said, I do believe the following. (The next sentence appears in bold in the report) That none of Roger's actions were of a sinful or immoral nature.
FACT #11: Last week’s article in the Klamath Courier is simply the fulfillment of a personal threat Ben Brown gave Roger via email. I know. I’ve seen it.
Conclusion: What do these facts support? What conclusions can we draw? …. If the DA, a professional counselor, the police, a polygraph and a forensic report can’t find anything to support Barbara Jo’s claims, and there are no eye-witnesses to support her either, then Roger is innocent. To draw any other conclusion is simply not logical; it contradicts our legal system and God’s guidelines in the Bible.
So in view of these facts, can we all move on now. It’s been two years.
You can dismiss the facts listed above if you want, but if you claim to know Jesus Christ, you do have to agree with this. Jesus called us to love God and love each other (Mark 12:30-31). Continuing to drag this situation up doesn’t demonstrate love at all. It only shows hatred, vengeance and unforgiveness. I didn't even want to write this in the first place, but I'm tired of all the gossip from people who profess Christ.
Can we please get on with loving Jesus? It's a lot more fun, and it's acutally beneficial. And may God help each of us to learn how love each other and treat each other with the respect that Christians should demonstrate.
Patrick Hagerty
No one from the general non-church going population of Klamath Falls is sticking up for Roger, no one on the school board Roger used to sit on is sticking up for him. No one who knew Roger from the other churches in town is sticking up for him.
The only people supporting Rog are those who he has spun his weave of lies on.
In Patrick's response, (and by the way, thanks for making some actual points, rather than saying simply ROGER IS INNOCENT!!!) It quotes the former counselor as saying if Roger is making this up, then he's the best liar I have ever come across.
Maybe he is. Maybe Roger is the best liar.
The things roger denied happening with BJ were the things done in private. But, every single one of BJ's claims that happened with a witness, Roger admitted to. He had to.
Being present in the Doctor's office tons and tons of times and representing himself as her FATHER? He had to admit to that, there were nurses and doctors who backed the story.
Sleeping on a SINGLE hotel room on trips? He had to admit to that, there was only one receipt and record for ONE room.
Why did BBC replace the carpets only in Roger's former office. Pastor Ben was long gone when that happened. Same for all the furniture in Roger's office. It was DESTROYED, deemed not even clean enough to be shipped to Goodwill or the Salvation Army.
Simply put, Roger needs a new title, maybe Dean of Fraud, or Master of Manipulation.
I admire you all for sticking up for him, it takes courage to stick up for what you believe in, but realize we ALL will know the truth someday. Our time on earth is very very short when you think about it. I have no problem saying clearly the evidence is solid, and Roger is guilty of being immoral, cheating on his wife, and lying and covering it up. Did he rape her? Maybe not. Did BJ even tell him no when he was pleasuring himself? Possibly she didn't. Roger may have thought BJ was into his rubbing and sexual massages.
So I agree with our District Attorney. Yes, things went on of a physical nature, but can a provable crime be prosecuted, probably not.
If Ed Caleb had been so sure there was no crime, then why did he forward the investigation to another county for a second opinion? Exactly. Because even he himself wasn't so sure.
I would identify myself but then I would lose a lot of people I view as friends, also my business would suffer financially, I can't do that, although I may change my mind later.
See you all in Heaven, and I accept your apologies in advance.
(That is sarcasm, but sarcasm is only funny when it's true)
"One swab reportedly taken from the carpet in the church. Examination failed to reveal the presence of seminal fluid. Purple fibers reportedly removed from the carpet in the church. Examination failed to reveal the presence of seminal fluid"
As to the seminal fluid that was found on the floor in the bedroom of his house - excuse me, but it is his house that he shares with his wife. Miss Stacey's accusations have them on the bed, never on the floor.
And the so-called confession to the board was not spoken by Roger but read to them by Ben Brown while Roger was out of the room. A confession that Ben doctored up after Roger's intial confession to Ben and the other two men. Roger never knew his confession was doctored for two weeks after the board heard and read it. When Roger went back to pointly ask the other two men who heard his intial confession what they heard, they could not remember what he said they could barely remember the conversation. The several board members I talked to couldn't remember a verbal confession from Roger either. So it's Ben's word against Roger's
"I will no longer linger on this site that so disqustingly abhors the Lord"
Wow Bruner. For feeling that way, you've certainly recommended this site to many of your friends.
As for Pat Hagerty's "facts", they are certainly an exercise in carefully selecting the bits and pieces of the story to support what you already believe and rejecting the parts of those 'facts' that you dislike. Besides, calling them facts does not make them so. However, I can easily respect Pat for standing by his friend - it's the strange unwarranted attacks on other people from the group that he associates himself with that bother me. Although I do agree with him on one thing - it has been two years. It is time for everyone to move on and for the hatefulness to stop.
P.S. Regardless of how all-powerful ex BBCers seem to think Pastor B, I do believe it's Daniel Webster who runs and publishes The Klamath Courier, not Ryan Brown or Ben Brown. Have you any problems with the article, you ought to address them to him.
"I will no longer linger on this site that so disqustingly abhors the Lord"
Wow Bruner. For feeling that way, you've certainly recommended this site to many of your friends.
As for Pat Hagerty's "facts", they are certainly an exercise in carefully selecting the bits and pieces of the story to support what you already believe and rejecting the parts of those 'facts' that you dislike. Besides, calling them facts does not make them so. However, I can easily respect Pat for standing by his friend - it's the strange unwarranted attacks on other people from the group that he associates himself with that bother me. Although I do agree with him on one thing - it has been two years. It is time for everyone to move on and for the hatefulness to stop.
P.S. Regardless of how all-powerful ex BBCers seem to think Pastor B, I do believe it's Daniel Webster who runs and publishes The Klamath Courier, not Ryan Brown or Ben Brown. Have you any problems with the article, you ought to address them to him.
As for the notion that Roger is the "best liar", "dean of deception", or "master of manipulation", I think you also have to consider that possibility that Ben fits those descriptions instead. Is there any evidence from Ben's life outside of the Roger issue to corroborate such a conclusion?
John C
Ex BBC Pastoral Staff
John C
Ex BBC Pastoral Staff
I don't know? Is there? We would love to hear it. Did Pastor Ben break some laws or something? Let us know.
Did you know most of these long time friends of Roger were Ben's long time friends too. It would be interesting to ask them why they chose to support Roger instead of Ben. I have know both for about 28 years and I support Roger 100%
If you'd like to talk with me, or address my message further, my phone number is in the book. Please call me instead of writing about what I've said. I'd be more than happy to talk.
This will be my last posting. May the Lord have mercy on all of us, and may He help us get on with loving Him.
Jesus is Lord,
Patrick Hagerty
Calling Ben Brown a liar and a deceiver is unfair and is hateful. What has he done but follow through with the unanimous decision of the Deacon Board? Making a fuss over Robin S still being in the ministry is unfair and hateful (not to mention hypocritical of people who so loudly tout their 'Christian love'). He has completed the biblical process and earned the trust and love of a forgiving Church membership - may I add, a process offered to Roger who denied to take it in his own cowardice. Saying terrible things about the Board of Deacons is unfair and hateful. They are Godly men who were charged with a very difficult decision, one that they came to unanimously based on only things Roger freely admitted to and not on any of the other accusations leveled against him, no matter how much water other accusations held.
The best way for me to know who is on the side of right and who is on the side of wrong is to take a step back and observe the actions of people who support the church and the actions of people who support Roger. The people who support the church are healing and moving forward with a vibrant ministry and love in their hearts. The people who support Roger stew in their bitterness and attempt attacks on church members they deem vulnerable. I would far rather be counted among the former.
I too have a copy of Pastor Ben's letter to your friend and sexual predator the defrocked roger stevens. If you don't cut and paste Pastor Ben's letter it reads as if he is STILL trying to help the defrocked roger. Pastor Ben once again shows God's grace and mercy to an obvious sinner.
Roger,
I am aware of the text printed in the H & N yesterday.
Also, I realize based upon your constant pattern of denial that you might respond with a release that is not based upon the facts as related to me personally, the BBC Staff and the BBC Board. Therefore, be advised that if you choose to say ANYTHING that your admissions do not support I will then strongly consider releasing a statement including supporting documents from all sources including those of both D.A. investigations and the full and documented record of the Board.
With the settlement behind you now is the time to come clean and live a new and honest life in front of this community, your true friends and our Lord. If you do not take this opportunity I will be left only to believe that in some pathological manner you have come to believe your own deceptions as related to others during this shameful time of dishonor to my Lord and Savior and His reputation.
I have constantly stood for the required truth and justice based on your early and repeated admissions. My role as Pastor was then cast to protect the victim based upon your confessions and to hope to see you deal appropriately with your clearly confessed behaviors.
I still stand waiting for my former friend to reestablish an honest, respectful and accountable relationship with people who truly care for you enough to continue to ask you to stand responsible for what you disclosed to them. This includes so many including the entire Board of BBC who heard your admissions and have never broken ranks as they have carried your many admissions in seeming silence through this period of time. They have stood under the weight of what you told them while only releasing a sketch of those admissions to the congregation. Please do not place them in the position to be interviewed and feel the necessity to expose you further to the Klamath community and beyond. This would neither serve you, the ministries of BBC nor the reputation of our Lord, Jesus!
I still stand ready to talk with you in a respectful manner and see you find honest healing for all involved. BBC, and you and I had the reputation of caring for peoples and were incredibly effective about bringing truth, accountability and healing to the worst of situations. It hurts that this same kind of opportunity for healing has been rebuffed by the one who now needs it the most.
Love in Christ Jesus,
Ben
Dr. Ben Brown
Senior Pastor
INTERNATIONAL BAPTIST CHURCH OF SINGAPORE
81 Kings Road
Singapore 266358
Is Roger the product of said church? If so, its apparent something beyond Roger needs fixing. If Roger is not the product of said church, then what good is a church? Aren't churches supposed to produce religious representatives of the faith. If people can't be perfect, if appears the only fault here possible, is the "church", "religion", and ultimately the one who is held as the owner and operator of the universe, that churches' proclaimed "god".
You want the reasons as to Why Ben would have done this to Roger? the #1 reason: JEALOUSY Roger was the heart of the church, Ben was the business. You couldn't get a sincere greeting from Ben or a chance that he would even know your name, yet Roger would make you feel like you attneded that church your whole life. as for "80% of the church leaving....., that is probly fairly accurate. check the directories at First Presbyterian, New Horizons, EV Free and KCC, to see how many names you recognize. This is not about Ben vs. Roger. It is about Roger being innocent. INNOCENT!!! the 3 things he admitted to the board back in May of 2004 were NOT sexual in nature, they were not the wisest actions obviously, however to the words of Ben Brown on May 30, 2004 to his congregation, "Roger did not do anything to betray his marital vows" wouldn't Rape and oral sex be a betrayal?? or was it when Ben threatened to go to the DA when members of the church attempted to add additional board members for assisting with the task of delineating the truth?, oh then Ben makes his threats....
As for us Roger supporters... WE HAD MOVED ON, VERY MUCH SO, until June 27, 2006 when LO and behold Ben is back in town after FLEEING the country and his congregation as it sinks, and there is a front page article on behalf of those that can't let go...
Once Ben leaves town again, this will all go away.
I have been reading all these posts and I figured since NONE of the "Brownies" can leave their name or identity for fear of losing business and their friends BOO HOO. if you have faith in the truth, then IDENTIFY yourself!! I agree with Bruner when she says that you are chicken not to put your name so I guess maybe I won't leave my name either... or maybe I will......
peace out, Kevin Federline
Anytime you see the words all in caps, ROGER IS INNOCENT!!!, and don't forget the explamation points, it's Bruner.
Then she went all third or fourth person on us, commenting about herself, while she was pretending to be Kevin Federline.
She needs to join L. Cooper and spend some vacation time at the looney farm.
AND - You can't give bruner that much credit for intelligence.
Thank you for sharing this letter, Anonymous. For a guy that spent a lot of time bashing President Clinton in sermons, Pastor Carpathia acts just like him. This is the politics of personal destruction at its finest.
Please, release all your evidence. Since it wasn't sufficient to justify criminal prosecution, and we now won't have a public trial to bring it out, you do a real disservice by not sharing your smoking gun with the world.
At the June 2001 board meeting, the budget committee presented to the board of deacons a plan to compensate Pastor Ben without directly affecting the current budget. The deacon board voted to compensate Pastor Ben through the use of the Senior Pastor's Housing Loan. Additional details would be necessary to process this decision. At the January 10th, 2002 board meeting, the deacons reviewed a one-page hand out with the details of this proposal. See board minutes for details. This plan was to be effective July 1, 2001.
It is the decision of this board to grant Pastor Ben Brown salary compensation without directly affecting the current budget. This will be done by reducing the principal on the Sr. Pastor's housing loan over a five year period.
[Table omitted]
A necessary aspect of this agreement is to aggressively replace lost revenue from the interest into the budget for the purpose of student scholarships. The revenue generated from this loan was equally divided between camp and student scholarships.
Sincerely,
signed Glen Vest, Chairman
signed Roger Stevens, Administrator
So Ben gets $70,000 of additional compensation without a church vote and outside of the budget. The board commits a felony by raiding an irrevocable trust. (Yes, trust according to documentation of original donor). The Triad School and the Camp lose interest income and future pastors lose a resource intended to help with housing. What leadership! Though Ben was forced to give the money back, he still thinks it was rightfully his to keep, so I doubt he'll ever come clean on the issue.
In other issues, let's not forget that BJ named the church as a defendant in her civil lawsuit. Surely the church assumed she would properly tithe on her settlement, so it sure seems like we have a conflict of interest.
Throw in a few lies, other unethical acts, some general ungraciousness, and it's easy to see why we don't think very highly of these people.
John
Is Ben Brown that powerfull? He can change the minds of grown businessmen into giving/loaning him $70,000?
Maybe Ben Brown made Roger cheat on his marital vows too.
And if Ben Brown is so powerfull, then why didn't he get the DA's office in either of the counties that investigated Roger's alledged crimes to ring him up with charges?
BRSC, that stands for (Before Roger's Sex Crimes) No one has a problem with Robin Schwartz being a music minister. You all high fived him, played volleyball with him and ate meals together.
Same for this issue with the housing allowance. If Ben Brown somehow bent people's minds into giving him this money, why didn't anyone mention it until now, years later? And where are the criminal charges there?
If Ben Brown is this powerfull, then I want to elect him as Mayor of Klamath Falls. But why stop there, let's make him Governor.
And Bruner wrote bascially, Ben was the business end of the church, Roger was the People person.
That is true, someone had to keep up with all the credit card fraud and church finance abuses.
I would say it was a full time job just keeping up with Roger.
And if 80 percent of the church left, why hasn't one single paid member of the staff left?
Yes, some volunteers have been poisoned into leaving, but the staff is intact. Has one single paid Triad teacher left?
Didn't think so.
The Coopers were married by Roger, he led them to the Lord. So it's natural for them to defend.
Roger isn't completely a bad person, he just let power go to his head. He took advantage of a throw-away girl in his mind, a girl who had no real parents and no one to run and talk to.
If that girl (BJ) had a different last name, Hamlin or Schwartz or Hunter, Roger never would have done what he did.
"Though Ben was forced to give the money back, he still thinks it was rightfully his to keep."
John C. is amazing. He is a mind reader.
"Throw in a few lies, other unethical acts, some general ungraciousness, and it's easy to see why we don't think very highly of these people."
Well, throw in accusations of sexual immorality, some victimization of a helpless girl, add a dash of irrational and pathetic blamethrowing, general two facedness, and you could understand why BBC is not terribly saddened about the people who left the church on Roger's behalf. In fact, it's a far happier place now.
Maybe Ben Brown made Roger cheat on his marital vows too.
I recall Brad Reed speaking to the congregation at BBC in May 2004 and clearly stating that Pastor Stevens did not break his marital vows. This statement was presumably made in accordance with the BBC Deacons' exhaustive investigation into the matter. So, CS, was Deacon Reed's statement in error?
| transaction in 2001, as did at least
| 12 other men?
Apparently so. Pretty amazing huh?
|
| Is Ben Brown that powerfull? He can
| change the minds of grown businessmen
| into giving/loaning him $70,000?
Yes, that powerful and manipulative.
Name one person in the last 20 years
that has confronted Ben on anything
substantial and not been threatened,
intimidated, or generally maligned.
Go ahead, name one. I got bunches
who have.
|
| Maybe Ben Brown made Roger cheat on
| his marital vows too.
|
I can see you're not taking the evidence
of embezzlement seriously.
| And if Ben Brown is so powerfull,
| then why didn't he get the DA's office
| in either of the counties that
| investigated Roger's alledged crimes
| to ring him up with charges?
|
He sure tried hard. Acted like he
was best buddies with Ed. Even claimed
to lead Ed to the Lord (another lie
but who's counting). I guess the
only conclusion is that Ed saw the
truth in spite of Ben.
| BRSC, that stands for (Before Roger's
| Sex Crimes) No one has a problem with
| Robin Schwartz being a music minister.
| You all high fived him, played
| volleyball with him and ate meals together.
|
I've got no problem with Robin being a
music minister in a church and being
restored to full fellowship in the body.
I do have a problem with a registered
sex offender have free access to a high
school campus, especially when the previous
offense was with a high school girl.
Public schools don't allow RSO on their
campuses. The reason no one had a problem
with it back then was because nobody knew
he was an RSO. I didn't, and I was on staff.
| Same for this issue with the housing
| allowance. If Ben Brown somehow bent
| people's minds into giving him this
| money, why didn't anyone mention it
| until now, years later? And where are
| the criminal charges there?
|
Because it generally wasn't known about
until about 2004 when Roger confessed
to Grant March (the original donor of
the money) that he failed to hold
Ben accountable to the intended use of
the funds. Since then it's been Grant's
issue. But make no mistake, Grant's
retired Federal Judge neighbor says he's
locked up people for less than what
happen here. Grant has shown a great deal
of mercy and patience to Ben. Since you
guys are so intent on being the sin police
maybe you should see if criminal charges
are appropriate.
| If Ben Brown is this powerfull, then
| I want to elect him as Mayor of
| Klamath Falls. But why stop there,
| let's make him Governor.
|
If you like power, go for it.
| And Bruner wrote bascially, Ben was
| the business end of the church, Roger
| was the People person.
|
| That is true, someone had to keep up
| with all the credit card fraud and
| church finance abuses.
|
| I would say it was a full time job
| just keeping up with Roger.
|
So you're all bent out of shape by
alleged credit card fraud by Roger
(for which you've provided no evidence)
yet when your guy makes off with 70k,
no big deal. I see how it is.
| And if 80 percent of the church left,
| why hasn't one single paid member of
| the staff left?
|
Ummm... because they need a job?
Because they're a blood relative
to someone who runs the place?
Why would anyone stick around if
they didn't have to?
But wait, paid staff has left.
Me, Deanna, Cindi, Steve.
| Yes, some volunteers have been poisoned
| into leaving, but the staff is intact.
| Has one single paid Triad teacher left?
|
| Didn't think so.
Trumble? Jessica? Ryan Dean?
| The Coopers were married by Roger,
| he led them to the Lord. So it's natural
| for them to defend.
Just for the record, he didn't lead us
to the Lord.
| John C. is amazing. He is a mind reader.
|
No - just ask my wife. Ben's
attitude is just obvious from the
way he has responded in personal
emails and from the difficulty
Grant had in getting the money back.
Bottom line - nobody there is interested
in truth. It's smear Roger's side
and hail BBC. That's why nobody
from BBC signs their name.
So, back to the 70k. Ben, you want
to come clean?
John
set aside all your anger and frustration
set aside all your personal views about what exactly happened, since we will never truly know that.
set aside all your personal prejudices about Roger, Ben, and other people in the church
Although I don't know that Roger Stevens victimized BJ, I don't know he didn't. The mere accusation being leveled against him ruins his pastoralship because he is no longer 'above reproach.' There is doubt. There is confusion. And as sad as it is if Roger is innocent that his life in that capacity is 'ruined' - he made the decision to take in a wounded woman in the first place. He 'risked it'. His sacrifice will be rewarded in Heaven should he be innocent. What happens here on Earth is up to him, and really, as a Christian, should not matter because he has full disclosure waiting for him in the hereafter. The church was right to remove him under the real risk that he may be a liar, a victimizer, and a pretender. Since he left the church it is my understanding that there have been some financial questions as well. It is best that he move on and stop dwelling, and his overreactions (aka the letter to the editor in the Herald & News after the press release was printed) have only made things worse for himself.
Innocent or not - Roger Stevens does not belong at BBC. At best, he would be a liability.